Double life

[Creutz]

It’s hard to know where to start. First of all, I’m a 35 year old gay man who came out to his wife about one year ago, just prior to our 6th attempt at IVF (8 years of trying). I still don’t think I’ve been able to move past that conversation, which was fairly traumatic for my wife to say the least. Not because of my sexuality, but because she thought I was leaving her. We met at the age of 19, and have been married for 11 years, together 16. The key driver to come out to my wife was due to a beautiful man that I had met, who I had developed strong feelings for. Like most of the stories on here, I identify with having strong feelings about my wife also, as a best friend, confidant and partner. I think the reason I haven’t left (and the reason why she hasn’t) is because of the shared feeling of not being able to live without each other. The idea of divorce terrifies me as well I must admit. To add further complications, we now have a 5 week old son, who I love very dearly, especially after so many years of trying. Leaving his side even for a night makes me very anxious. So here I am... a new father who happens to be married and gay, and in love with a man and a woman (in different ways), but unable to leave either of them. What do I hope to achieve on here? Clarity and direction I suppose, some kindred spirits and a way to move forward out of this mess. Also worth noting that yes, I’ve spoken to psychologists over the years, some better than others... but all of them expensive!

[Johnny_11]

Hey mate, wish I could give you a hug.

Youre not unlovable or u likeable. You’re just going through a major change in your life, you have to cut yourself some slack, give yourself some time to adjust

something doesn’t add up with your friend. He obviously likes you because he invited you to the dinner, but then to block you over $10, and you paid him back. Maybe there’s been a misunderstanding..??? Or maybe he’s going through his own stuff...???

I know it’s hard to make friends when your older, I know first hand. Other than my wife and kids, I don’t have anyone else that I would classify as a close friend.

Recently I became friends with a guy, we clicked straight away, chatting daily, and then he started pulling away, not wanting to catch up or returning my texts. I was really hurt by it. After thinking about it for a while, I realised that most people have brothers, sisters, cousins, work colleagues, and friends, and I don’t have any of those. When I get a friend, they get 100% of my time, but I might get only 10% of theirs.... maybe what I’m trying to say is for me, and maybe for you too, these situations are amplified because we don’t have any other friends in our lives.

I hope you’re feeling better. Let me know.

John

[Only_I_know]

Hey John,

that's very well put.

Craig you are awesome, and don't ever forget that. You've shown us all a lot of love, friendship and compassion over the last few months.

John, you're spot on with the friend thing. I'm pretty much the same, I have no close friends. I have friends that are my wife and mine, and they are awesome, but I don't have one that I'm close to. I have brothers, but I'm estranged with 1, and rarely speak to the other - we just don't have anything in common.

I also give any new friend 100% of my time, and like you said, they may only give us 10% of theirs, I guess we should also consider that perhaps by giving them so much of ourselves that it may be too much for them - they may only want 10% of our time as well. Unless of course it is going down the path of a relationship, where you'd expect to both give and receive more of each others time, but it's important to remember that even in relationships, people need space.

I think best to try and "go with the flow" - something I struggle with coz i'm not that kind of guy!

[C4]

Thanks John and Darren for your kind words I’m sure it’s more him than me . There was nothing romantic involved I just wanted his friendship that’s all but maybe because I was annoyed about the money side of things put him off but I still should have got an explanation it he didn’t want my friendship. I agree with you John I wish there was a way to DM on here but I understand the rules and why people might want to remain anonymous and confidential. But I think if there is a way for others who want to connect with each other provided it’s mutual then maybe it should be allowed but this is my opinion that’s all . That being said he’s still a member of a GLBT social group so I’ll still go to functions but I won’t make things uncomfortable for us as it’s not professional. Thanks for listening guys I appreciate it . Craig

[Johnny_11]

Hi Craig and Daz

craig, I also think it’s more your friends issue. Have you thought about sending him a message, something along the lines of I think we’ve had a misunderstanding and I’ve done something to upset you, I’m really sorry about this. I don’t want our friendship to change, can we catch up for a chat?

someone needs to be the first to put their hand out, if you want friends then it needs to be you.

J

[C4]

I won’t message I’ll wait until the next gathering then mention to him quietly and see what he says if he wants to be friends then all good if not it’s his loss . But I won’t make a scene about it . But I guess it’s up to me your right but I’m not letting it get to me anymore. But thanks for the support.

[Creutz]

Well it happened over the weekend. It's so hard on here because it's simply words on a screen. I can't convey the emotions, pain or the experience using words. It was extremely tough with crying, yelling and ultimately threats. I'm in a very dark place right now, however I'm trying to stay positive. In a nutshell, my wife certainly isn't keen on me having a closed-loop relationship with the man I've been secretly seeing. She really doesn't understand what it means to be gay, and believes that it's just about sex. She feels that allowing a relationship with my guy will lead to me ultimately leaving her, and doesn't understand the depth of my feelings for the man I'm with. I tried to explain that its a different love, but not love that competes with her. I do understand how she feels though... that I have "stolen" this special time with our newborn son from her. She certainly had a point when she said that if I had both her and my guy, that I wouldn't be able to give myself fully to either, and that wouldn't be fair to either or them. There are some things that stick with you, and I know that she was extremely angry, however she said something about the man I'm seeing that was very cruel and demeaning, to the point where I will not repeat it on here (the moderators wouldn't allow the word to be used). She also said that going down this path will lead to me losing her, her family and my son as she would choose to move back to her hometown. Although her hometown is only about 1.5 hours away, it would tear me apart as I must keep my day-to-day job here and I wouldn't be able to see him everyday.

I'm probably only portraying the worse parts of the discussion, but these are the things that stick with you. She has said "You should just be with him" and "I just want you to be happy". However today, Monday morning, she had written a very long note about how she was feeling. That she doesn't know how we can come back from here, but telling me that I chose to marry her and also provided details about the life that she thinks I will miss if I leave. I understand that she is fighting to keep me as her husband, but I feel as though it is a form of emotional blackmail and I feel trapped. To make me feel so bad about what I'm doing and what i would be missing out on that I then choose to stay with her. Last night she came into the bedroom and I was crying hysterically, and I could tell that she was hoping it was because I had broken it off with my guy.

I'm so confused.

[Definitely_Otherwise]

Hi Creutz,

I hope my previous post didn’t come off too strong but just tried to give you a sense of it from the man you’re in love with perspective. I’m not judging you, I know you feel torn, but being on the receiving end of a person who is “having their cake and eating it too”, is pretty awful. And it sounds like your guy has given you a lot of emotional support during the rollercoaster of IVF and you really relied on him.

I’ll be honest with you Creutz, I’m really not surprised about your wifes reaction. There was evidence of how she thinks about same sex attraction in her immediate response. When I read your posts initially I didn’t speak up, but I found your wife’s initial reaction over 12 months ago when she found the Q Life conversation quite unbelievable and shocking. I can’t imagine finding something like that on my husbands computer and burying my head in the sand. Dismissing it like all I had done was find some porn on his laptop.

When I read it, I thought, this women does not believe that 2 people of the same sex can fall madly in love with one another. To her, it is merely somewhere in the realm of being pornographic, kinky, sexually adventurous and simple guys being sexed crazed guys, and certainly nothing real. I think she still believes those things.

How many LGBTI friends does your wife have? Does she have any? She seems sheltered.

I can understand that she is in raw emotion right now. Of course she is angry, she wouldn’t be human if she wasn’t. She feels undesirable and humiliated, so she’s spitting out horrible stuff, but she has to ask herself why did she close the door on the conversation over a year ago?? That should have been a critical juncture in the marriage.

Using your son to emotionally manipulate you is so harsh and really awful. She knows how much you love him and are devoted to him. And also using the threat of loneliness is awful, reminding you of everyone you would lose!

It’s an extremely difficult situation and you must be sick with stress and anxiety.

I hope that in your wife’s mind the counselling would be to address the high emotions & hurt, and to figure out if it is possible to have a ‘mixed-orientation’ marriage, and not gay ‘conversion’ therapy. Cos’ right now I think she may believe the bond between 2 men isn’t real. And certainly a lot less real than between a man and a women.

I know it's really early days and hopefully this is just part of the fire that comes with being hurt.

Take care
Def.

[Johnny_11]

Hey mate, I'm so sorry this didn't work out like you were hoping. You must be so stressed and confused at the moment, and I imagine that you wife is feeling the same and most likely very angry at you.

I hope though, that through all this confusion and stress you feel a weight lifted off you that you don't have to hide this anymore. I know I did, but the flip side is you will see the hurt your causing your wife. It tore me up, and you question if you made the right decision. But its best to be honest with yourself and your wife, and move forward from there.

Do you have anyone for support?

It's not the best time to make rash decisions about your future now. Maybe you could suggest to her that you both commit to stay together for the next 6 months or so to work this out. Not make any life changing decisions during that time, go to counselling and discuss options for your future. Thats what I did.

You really need a LGBT counsellor and ideally someone with experience in mixed orientation marriages, I know one is Sydney that also does sessions through Skype if you need his details.

It's hard to say if your wife is using your son against you, she may well be, she's very angry and hurt, and is looking at ways to get back at you, but hopefully this will pass. But if you separate then she's thinking she will want some family around her for support, and it just happens that her family is far away.

Regardless you have rights as a father, and she can't take that away. Hopefully she can move past the hurt and regardless of your relationship with her, she will realise that it's important for your son to have a relationship with you. Not only that, its hard work raising a kid on your own, she will need the help.

Keep in mind that you have been dealing with this for 12 months or more, and your wife had no idea this was coming, and you've just turned her whole world up side down. It's going to take her some time to process. I gave my wife some space, and just got on with everyday life. And I'd let her ask what ever she wanted, but I wouldn't answer in specific details, I didn't want to say anything early on that she wouldn't be able to move past.

The next few days will be hard, I'll be thinking of you, and waiting for an update.

Hugs
John

[Only_I_know]

Hey Cruetz, congratulations on having the courage to go through with it (though doubt you like that word for this) but you know it had to be done. It'll be rough for a little while, so you just need to try and remain strong. Johnny has pretty much said everything, speak to an lgbt friendly counsellor, Qlife can recommend one, or just give them a call they can help too.

As Johnny said, don't make rash decisions, be patient with your wife. She should also seek some counselling and an LGBT friendly one would assist her too as they can often answer the questions far better than any of us can. My wife came with me to a session I had with mine, and he explained it in such a way that it made it so clear for her and we have been great since.

Don't get angry back, she'll be scared and worried and fighting won't help it will just drive a bigger wedge between you. You still have an opportunity to be a significant other for each other, just not in the old way.

I hope your guy is supporting you well emotionally, as you will need to lean on him more over the next few weeks. encourage your wife to at least talk to a friend.

Things will no doubt improve with a little patience and understanding and continued love.

I hope things pick up soon for you.

Daz

[Esti67]

Hi Creutz,

So sorry to hear that this has turned so ugly for all of you. I hope you are ok. It's only early days and whilst you have had a lot of time to figure out what to do and where you are with all of this for your wife it is brand new information for her and understandably she is in shock. Her reaction is one of grief and its going to sting for a while. She will be going through a lot of emotions. She needs some space to process this as do you. For you both to come out of this ok you probably both do need some counselling, joint and individual. In our arrangement, yes, we are muddling along, it remains awkward when i go to my friends place, we are both not totally comfortable with it but am glad i have the oportunity to see if this feels right (which it does). Our arrangement is unique and not for everyone.

When i start to feel guilty, i think if my husband was a gay man and he felt trapped in a straight marriage, the last thing i would want is for him to feel obligated to stay because that is not a partnership and in the end, the resentment would crush us both and any relationship that was left would be eroded away and the worst possible outcome. Maybe in time your wife will see this. I hope so for the sake of your son and you both. Unless she is completely heartless which i dont think she is, given how you have described her in previous posts, hopefully she will see the bigger picture which is that a happy you can be a better father and that you can still be parents even if you aren't together. Be as supportive as you can and let her be angry. This will pass if you can show her that you are still you, a nice man and loving father.

Get lots of support and dont beat yourself up, although this is not easy. Keep moving forward, you are very brave.

E