Double life

[Creutz]

It’s hard to know where to start. First of all, I’m a 35 year old gay man who came out to his wife about one year ago, just prior to our 6th attempt at IVF (8 years of trying). I still don’t think I’ve been able to move past that conversation, which was fairly traumatic for my wife to say the least. Not because of my sexuality, but because she thought I was leaving her. We met at the age of 19, and have been married for 11 years, together 16. The key driver to come out to my wife was due to a beautiful man that I had met, who I had developed strong feelings for. Like most of the stories on here, I identify with having strong feelings about my wife also, as a best friend, confidant and partner. I think the reason I haven’t left (and the reason why she hasn’t) is because of the shared feeling of not being able to live without each other. The idea of divorce terrifies me as well I must admit. To add further complications, we now have a 5 week old son, who I love very dearly, especially after so many years of trying. Leaving his side even for a night makes me very anxious. So here I am... a new father who happens to be married and gay, and in love with a man and a woman (in different ways), but unable to leave either of them. What do I hope to achieve on here? Clarity and direction I suppose, some kindred spirits and a way to move forward out of this mess. Also worth noting that yes, I’ve spoken to psychologists over the years, some better than others... but all of them expensive!

[Johnny_11]

Hi Darren

I'm finding my wife is a remarkable person. When I came out to her I was ready to move out, only because I thought that was the only path, but I'm glad we decided to get some counselling and see what happens. I've been trying to open up and express my feelings more, but its difficult when you've spent your entire life trying to hide this part of you.

My therapist works with a number of men in this situation, some are monogamous and some are in open marriages, but they stay married and live in the same house as their wives. He says people just don't talk about these types of arrangements because they are outside of society's norm, and people don't understand.

Right now I'm starting to explore my gay side but in a non sexual way, I really don't understand what it means either lol, but things like trying to make friends with other gay people, not editing myself to act "straight" etc. It's hard to make new friends in your mid 40s, let alone specific gay ones, but it's early days, so I'll see how it goes.

You have a lot of support, and most importantly a supportive wife. I think this will really help you.

I know you're feeling unsure about this new stage in your life, its something you've never done before and probably never thought you would, its outside your "comfort zone" but I think you will learn a lot about yourself, and grow as a person.

When I started exploring my sexuality, I was cheating on my wife and I'm not proud of it, but I found that I was able to connect to these men at a different level than I would with my usual friends, and I'm not referring to the sex, lol. I mean, men our age all grew up when it was generally not ok to be gay, and when you see that part of you in other men, its a strong connection.

I'm keen to hear how you go, I'm excited for you and a bit envious...

Cheers
John

[C4]

Hi guys I’m actually a bit envious that you got to stay with your wives even for a little while mine left that night and never came back I was devastated at the time I tried to do my best as a husband and friend but it wasn’t enough. We’re friendly now but at the time she was angry and hurt . It was hard being by myself whilst everything was getting sorted out and coming to terms what I’d done and the consequences to follow. I wasn’t ready for the fall and ready to come out even at all I didn’t think I was gay only having sexual thoughts about men I didn’t know what it meant for me . I tried so hard to fix myself and my marriage I forgot about the only one that lost the most me . It’s so hard to start again from scratch it’s not what I had planned for my life I was prepared to stay married I just wanted the thoughts to go away and the burden off my shoulders . Of course it wasn’t realistic for us to be together as I wasn’t sexually attracted to her . I never cheated on her and I didn’t want to do it to her even though I did want to know what it was like to be with a man . I guess I was lucky there was no children involved or property to split like you guys have that would make it more difficult to make a final decision on things . I want to connect with a man as well on an emotional level and not just sex I guess I want what I had with my wife . I can understand Darren’s concern about living alone after all these years as most of us had a marriage of nearly 20 years that’s along time and to start again is scary but worth it in the long run . There’s so much to talk about but I won’t bore you all just to say that I’ll be here if you need me .

[Only_I_know]

Hey John, when I told my wife I wasn't ready to move out, not prepared - nothing. I was in such a low state, and I don't know what I would have done had it gone poorly. I'm not grumbling that I have to move out soon, it's just the uncertainty, the being alone etc.

I know how you feel, I'm 47 and opening up about being gay is very hard - you become so well practised at hiding that being open now flies in the face of all of your previous beliefs (and values).

I too am now exploring my gay side (also not in a sexual way - that is a while off yet I think). I mentioned before that I looked up Team Melbourne - on there is a whole bunch of LGBT groups that you can join to meet people. I have joined a walking/running group that walk every Saturday morning, it's a really nice way to start a Saturday morning. I don't know where you are, but there is one in each capital city if you google "TEAM and the city". Definitely recommend if you want to get out there and widen your social circle amongst like minded people, and you are right - it is VERY hard to make new friends in your mid 40's - but you need to force yourself to do it otherwise you'll go nowhere and this time next year you will still be doing what you are now and probably not happy.

I'm not judging you or anyone about exploring whilst you are married. God knows, how many times I wanted to experience intimacy with a man, but I was so much in love with my wife (and still am) that I just couldn't do it. Maybe I just never had the actual opportunity or confidence, maybe if I had - well who knows?

I am nervous about being on my own, but excited too. I have kids in the picture as well, so need to be mindful of that.

I hadn't posted for a little while, just wasn't in the mood! but I do check here every day. There are some wonderful people here - like C4 (Craig), BlueSimon (Tim) and a few other regular posters and we've all been through or going through similar experiences and roughly the same age, so it's nice to be here and chatting away to people who understand.

Hope you have a great weekend, the grand final is on but I'm finding it boring as my team isn't there!

Cheers

Daz

[Only_I_know]

Hey Craig, hope you are well and things aren't too bad. I think I must've missed you saying before that your wife left the day you told her. That's really sad for you, and must've been really difficult and your world must've come crashing down around you, something that you wouldn't have been prepared for. At least she has come back into your life, but still, it was a time that you needed supporting. It makes me really appreciate how I have it now, and by the time I do move out, I would have had 6 months to get used to the idea.

Funny though, I'm not used to paying bills, getting services connected etc - my wife did all of that - I just financed it! I now have to learn how to budget, ensure bills get paid and manage the funds all on my own! Well, I'm a big boy, so I'm sure I'll learn it! hopefully just not the hard way!

cheers

Daz

[C4]

Thanks Darren for your reply you know I always used to think it would be easier if we’d een divorced years before this happened but when it did happen I wasn’t prepared for the loneliness that was to come but yes she is friendly but has a partner so I can’t get too involved in her life anymore. When we were together I organised all the utilities and bills and she paid them and before I met her I lived by myself so I know what it’s like to live by myself but I still miss her company as we were best friends and I lost that . It’s like everyone has moved on and I’m stuck in limbo some days but it’s hard to make friends as I’m pretty reserved and shy until I’m comfortable with people. I’m glad you’ve made new friends also as it will make the transition to moving out easier. My group has lunches once a month so it’s nice to meet up for a chat but it’s hard to socialise with them as everyone is busy . Craig

[Creutz]

Hi John,

You really are in a very similar situation to me.

I’m at my parents place as I’m typing this, with my 7 week old son and my wife, with my sister and her kids also visiting. They’re just so in love with my son, and it breaks my heart to think that this could all change. What happens if I tell my wife I want a “second relationship” with the guy I’m in love, and she can’t handle it and wants to separate? My family wouldn’t see my son much at all. He’s just so young... and we tried for 9 years to have a child. To make matters more complicated, the guy i’ve met (who has been waiting patiently in the wings for more than a year and seeing me very sporadically) has said that he’s had enough and that things have to change very quickly or he’ll leave me. It’s a lot of pressure. I love him so so much though, and I could bare to lose him. Nor can I bare losing my wife. I suppose I have 2 courses of action:

1. Have a discussion with my wife this week about wanting to have a second, separate relationship with the guy I’ve met but stay married. This would be a very difficult conversation, and she may choose to leave me and I would risk losing a relationship with my son; or

2. Break things off with the guy I’ve met (however I just can’t imagine this - I have very strong feelings for him) and continue with my marriage as is. I do think I would always miss the guy I’ve met for the rest of my life though.

I think I have so much to lose with both options... but especially option 1.

[Johnny_11]

Hi Craig

That would've have been very difficult for you, opening up to your wife and then she just leaves. It would've been difficult for both of you, I'm sure she just didn't know how to handle the situation, and did what she thought was what she was suppose to do.

I think a lot of wives in this situation will also feel "judged" if they stay in the marriage, not only by other people (if they find out) but they probably judge themselves. I know my wife struggles with this, she knows if she was to tell her friends and family, they would tell her to leave me, but for her that didn't feel like the right thing to do.

I'm also reserved and find it hard to make friends, a few years ago I was very lonely and purposely put myself out there to meet new friends. I joined a gym that did team training, and would go to the same class everyday, its usually the same people in the class each day, and being daily theres more opportunities to chat than something that is weekly or monthly. I felt awkward starting up conversations, but learnt that the awkwardness only lasts a couple of minutes, and the more you do it the easier it gets. And I'd just find stupid things to ask about like 'where's you get your runners? I need a new pair' etc... Most people are friendly enough, you just got to make the first move...

When I was going through the stressful period with my wife, I left that gym and have lost contact with those friends. I have a tendency to cut people out, and recently my therapist advise that its a trait of gay people, something to do with shame, and cutting people out in fear that they will reject you. I think this rings true for me.

You said you feel like youre stuck in limbo? in what way? because your wife has a new partner and you haven't moved on?

Hugs
John

[Johnny_11]

Hi Daz

I checked out Team Sydney, thanks, it's something I'd be interested in down the track, I don't think my wife would be comfortable with it just now. Also, being married I think I would feel like an outsider. Thats something I struggle with, I don't I fit in anywhere. I'm an outsider with straight guys, and an outsider with gay guys...

Our relationship therapist advised that we should only discuss my sexuality in a serious manner, we shouldn't joke and make light of it, because it was a serious issue in our relationship. This didn't really sit well with me, or both our personalities. My personal therapist didn't agree with it either, he said we should be open about it, and I should be free to explore it with my wife. So we've started to do this, and its been so refreshing to just be able to talk and joke about with her.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but whats holding you back from exploring your sexuality in a sexual way?

Hugs
John

[Creutz]

Hi Only I Know,

You said “I know that my life has changed - I think (and hope) for the better, but only time will tell. I have awesome kids, great friends and an accepting family - so all should be good - right?”

You’ve hit the nail on the head. I struggle with this. Yes I’m gay, but I’m not unhappy in my current situation, really. I have a young son, a wife who has chosen to stay with me despite my sexuality... should I really risk blowing all of this up? Am I risking too much? Will it be worth the stress?

[Johnny_11]

Hi Creutz

Mate, I really feel for you. You must be feeling very alone and stressed at a time in your life when you should be feeling joy.

Your guy seems to be understanding but does he need to put this pressure on your right now? Do you not have a third option to ask him for some more time, tell him you really want him in your life but you have so much pressure at the moment, and it's not the right time to talk to your wife...???

One thing that you haven't mentioned is how your guy feels about you staying married and having a closed-loop relationship with him? have you had this conversation with him? Is he happy to share you with your wife, if your wife agrees?

I was reading one of your previous posts where you were watching a tv show and your wife asked "do you think this will happen to us?" To me it sounded like she wanted to open up the conversation, she wanted to test the boundaries of your marriage.... did you think that?

Honestly, I think right now if not the right time to have this conversation with your wife. You have a new born, she's probably not sleeping, having to feed every couple of hours, her hormones all over the place etc. You bring up this conversation, she's going to think you want to abandon her when she needs you the most.

If you are going to have this convo, then from my experience and people I have chatted to, your wife needs to know that you are 100% committed to her emotionally, and she is the first priority in your life. When the wife feels insecure, then its a lot of drama and doesn't work.

And take baby steps, instead of saying you want to see this guy on the side, say you want to discuss your sexuality and how she feels about it, or about you exploring it, not sure if these are the right words, only you know.

Please reach out if you need anything, so many of us have gone through similar situations, you don't need to be alone.

Hugs
John