Have you forgiven yourself?

[Scotchfinger]

There are things I find hard to even admit to myself, let alone tell a bunch of strangers on a forum. Not jailable offences but still things I am in no way proud of.

I think for some of us, guilt is like a chronic disease. it erodes our soul. It makes us think we need to keep suffering in order to pay for our sins. And it affects our relations with people in a negative way. So I can't just say I've been a victim in life because I've also been one who has caused others pain and anguish. I don't need to hear your sins, just the fact that you continue to suffer guilt like me.

[Durras]

Hi Neil,

After reading your post, it made me think back to a time with my daughters dad. He was helping me carry furniture down to the garage that I didn't want. We were so close to the garage and he wanted to stop ( I was like come on whats wrong with ya were nearly there, get your muscle and back into it, don't be such a mouse) Well he picked it back up and then immediately collapsed, fell on the ground.

I was wanting to ring the ambulance and he insisted no no no so I didn't. I stayed awake with him all night to make sure he was ok. Took him to doctors and they immediately flew him to hospital. He had a massive brain haemorrhage 14 blown blood vessels.

Neil he is with us here today but the guilt I felt for that and I still carry it with me today. That guilt has made me make so many choices to try and make it up to him and have formed unfortunately also the most difficult times in my life with him which have played a huge part in my depression. I guess what I am trying to say is I kind of understand from having the guilt I have from not making the right decision and letting him sit it for a while from carrying the furniture and my daughter nearly losing her dad. I also realize I will never fully understand and know how your guilt must be for you.

I wanted to share my guilt with you and not being able to forgive myself.

Like Moonstruck said too I agree maybe he has forgiven you.

Like Blue Water said I also agree again, all your posts and replies are real standouts with giving so much advice, wisdom and the most beautiful caring words and sentences with how you connect it so we can feel what you are saying.

My daughters dad has never forgiven me, even thou I have cried to him about it.

 With this post I send you a enormous hug and say thank you for sharing as I know it must of been very difficult for you.

Durras

[Durras]

Neil I just had another thought and I hope it is ok for me to say this and apologise in advance if not but I am hoping it may ease some of the guilt and take away some of the pain you must be suffering from the guilt.

If the man above numbered our day today and we meet up with all our loved ones in his beautiful place above and you see your brother what would that be like?

Maybe this is hard and again my apologies.

What would happen? I am sure you would give him the biggest hug and say sorry asking for his forgiveness, thou what do you think he may say back to you?

I am saying this cause I wonder it myself sometimes with all the people I have done wrong to, hurt and haven't been able to say sorry to.

I think if I can imagine it happening or what it would be like then it may ease some of the guilt and pain from within.

I don't know if this is probably really silly way to think and again my apologies for suggesting it if it is hard or wrong.

Durras

[Neil_1]

Dear Bailey

Oh wow, thank you so much for this beautiful reply.  “Your” words bought tears to my eyes.  It really touched me deeply and I’m kind of dumb-struck for words to say back to you (unusual, I know).

You know, wouldn’t it be wonderful if there was such a machine or a tablet.  But for the most part, I just live with it – I do partake in some amber fluid of a night-time, which is kind of a release of built up tension and stress.  I’m not condoning the goodness of beer, but for me, it’s been more of a help than a hindrance.

Thank you again Bailey for such a beautiful post to me.

Kind regards

Neil

[Neil_1]

Dear Moonstruck

Just like Bailey’s beautiful post above, yours has really touched me big time as well.  But please please, don’t be thinking that this is a repayment kind of thing – I’m here cause I feel as though I’m almost beyond help with my situation(s), but I think, oh well, if I can’t be fixed or helped, then maybe through experiences I’ve had and continue to have, perhaps I can reach out to others and provide something of use and help to them.

I think that perhaps a lot of people who post quite a bit here are of similar thoughts – though I hope that they aren’t as down on themselves.

I’m really pleased that I was able to provide a little bit of help for you – and you know I will continue to do so as well.

With regard to the forgiveness side of things – I really don’t know – I don’t know how he could – he was 29yo, I was 25yo and I took from him, the ultimate thing you could ever take from someone – their life.  I still see his face so clearly as it was in the water – the shocked look on his face, the fact that he was unable to speak – he was frozen with fear.  Except for when he was trying to get himself above the water by using me as a launching pad, kind of thing.

I’ve written a manuscript about my life and in it, I went into deep deep detail about the incident – things I have kept to myself, so it was good to get them down.

I’ll venture a bit further into the forgiveness bit in my next response to Durras, but again, Moonstruck, I really want to thank you so much for your kind response and words.

Neil

[Neil_1]

Dear Durras

Thank you so much for sharing your story as well.  I’m so very pleased to read that he’s still around, though it does sadden me to hear that he hasn’t forgiven you and I can see how that must really rip you up inside.

Also your comment about thanking me for sharing as it must have been difficult to share – it took me some time to be able to do this.  Yes, I’ve gotten it down in my manuscript plus a hell of a lot more, but that’s sitting on my computer and also in a hard-copy format and has only been read by less than a handful of people – just my own fam.  So to share what I wrote did take a bit of mental strength, I guess you may call it, to share and open up a little about it.

It’s one of my main catalysts for PTSD and also severe depression.

With regard to your second post, I really want to thank you also for providing that too.  However, not to make light at all of anyone else’s beliefs and thoughts on such things, but for me, when you’re dead, you’re dead.  That’s it.  Life is extinguished and it’s all over.  My opinion of it is like when you get put “under” for an operation – I’ve had way over a dozen operations, so know the feeling.  It’s pretty much like you go to sleep except you don’t dream (well I don’t anyway).  And that’s exactly what I think happens for the end of life – everything goes blank and that’s it.  (Kind of like the very end of the last episode of the last season of the Soprano’s – that’s not really a spoiler alert either by the way).  Whoops, slight light-hearted digression, as I’ve been very sombre in my latest posts.

But getting back to your post – there was nothing silly about it and nothing wrong about it, so definitely no need to be sorry for it.  It was really nice of you to come up with these suggestions and thoughts, and I’ve thought before that maybe, just maybe, I might be able to better reconcile with myself if I could come to terms with beliefs from the beyond, but I’m very black and white with this.

So I just continue on – I do feel a little better for being able to share with you all – and I know that this loss has changed me for my outlook on life.  I just wish that I didn’t have to live with this torment all the time, the ptsd, the depression and also my anxiety.  Perhaps it’s my mind getting back at me for the grief that I caused to so many people.  Who knows.

Kind regards

Neil

[Durras]

Hi Neil,

I cry tears for you as I wish I could come with more suggestions to help ease your pain and take away all that you are carrying with you. I hope one day that does happen for you because you seem like, come across like such a beautiful soul and I hate to think your suffering. None of us deserves to suffer as we do, we are all searching and looking for forgiveness especially from within ourselves and healing the past leaving it behind and opening new beginnings.

Neil I want this for you as I do for all here on BB.

I am glad all I posted was ok with you, I do the same thing too now I write things down, date them and put them in a shoe box and will read them again at a later date. One day I plan to put them on a hard drive.

Neil I am not Christian but I do feel better when I have said a prayer. I don't go to church but I want to believe something greater then me/us is there and I can turn to it with prayers, (just maybe as you put it) this just helps ease pressure off my shoulders and gives strength and hope. I do accept your black and white with this.

Maybe with saying that thou all these people have forgiven you already have you spoken to them about it how your feeling? Maybe talking with them, listening to them and allowing yourself to change your thinking to the (maybe what if and I'm not telling you to start praying) but maybe what if you did accept that could be the start to changing your outlook and giving you a whole new beginning to opening a new door. I think here I am stretching my suggestion from previous post. Apologies it cause I care about you.

I know it could be hard Neil but you have so much support here with us on BB and you have made a little start already by sharing your story and I know in my heart many on here will be feeling the same way.

I did put in a post to a new comer (Here on BB we are a family helping one another.)

Big hug to you Neil and please I would love to know how you are doing and again thank you for sharing your story as hard and difficult as it was for you

Durras

X

[Neil_1]

Dear Durras

Thank you again for a beautiful response and your extremely kind and lovely words.

I believe for the most part, I am ok with the forgiveness side of things – except for 3 people, but only one of those I care about.  Um, and strange enough as it may seem, that one person is me.

The other two don’t rate in my life as they are the flotsam of society and as such, what they think about me means stuff all.  Though it did knock me (and my eldest brother) for a six when we were told by these other two – you see, the other two are my “other” brother and his wife.  They hate me for the drowning incident and have never and will never forgive me.  That was told to my face – oh, about a month after we lost our Mum.  Dad had already passed, and so they quite conveniently waited till Mum passed for them to open up.  They simply never had the guts to say anything while Mum was alive.  It was a meeting of the 3 brothers and partners/wives kind of thing.

As you can imagine, I was gobsmacked beyond belief and it left me a blithering mess for a long long while – not so much for what they said, but more so, because of the hurt and pain that I live with every day and it just was like a knife opening up my scars again.  My eldest bro was a phenomenal support for me on that day and has been for a long time as well.  We get on very well.

Durras, I do think that’s a reason why I hang around B.Blue so much, because of the wonderful people who post here – the regulars who become pretty much like friends – though we don’t know who they are, etc, but you do get a feel for people, by how they write and post, etc.  There’s a hell of a lot of friendly, caring and genuine people who are on this site and I’ve received an amazing amount of support in the past when I’ve been feeling low and fragile.

That gets me to the other part about me and that is for a long time now, I am sitting in a low and fragile place.  I don’t know why – I wish I wasn’t, but I just feel if I can come here and post to others, then that makes me feel a little better.  But in no way does it drag me out of the ditch that I crawl along in.

Sorry for being largely negative.  It’ll pass, I guess.

I am looking forward to some good rain that’s apparently on its way to my part of the world in the next number of hours. 

Neil

[Durras]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for opening up and sharing that little bit more. I do want to reply with so much but unfortunately I am limited with time at the moment. I want to send you a huge hug and to let you know I am thinking of you. I should go thou as the storm is brewing here in my part of the world.

I never had friends always had difficulty making them and if I did they used me, walked all over me etc etc because I did whatever I could to please them so they accepted me and got hurt.

I know everyone on here are beautiful and so genuine and friendly and accepting and I am now blessed to call you all my friends and know it is real thou we have never met.

Neil wishing you all the best sorry this is short and looking forward to contacting you again after Australia day when I am back from NZ.

Hugs to you again x

Durras

[Blue_Water]

Dear Neil,

You've endured a great deal in life and it's any wonder why you feel it's difficult to come up for air. If I may touch upon your brother and his wife whom state they'll never forgive you. It never ceases to amaze me how self righteous and hurtful people can be. It isn't enough that you've had to suffer the guilt over the uncontrollable circumstances that surrounded your brothers and friends passing, that they decide take it upon themselves to rub acid into your wound to remind you that apparently "You're a bad person ". That is incredibly heartless and callous of them to express this nastiness upon you. It's tacky, tasteless and unwarranted. I'm sorry, but that's a horrendous thing to do to anyone carrying pain around as you do. Why is it people can't be forgiving, accepting and loving of one another? I think the problem is with them, unresolved issues that run a whole lot deeper than what you carry around each day. I find that sad and I pity them, not hate them for how they are. You can be thankful you're not them. You are a unique and kind person that constantly tries to help others despite the pain you endure. How selfless you are, how extraordinary someone like you exists. Thank you universe for Neil. 

I understand how you feel, I feel numb tonight as this Saturday I've got to put my beloved and beautiful golden cooker spaniel to sleep. I've been through a tremendous amount of loss these last 15 years and haven't myself been able to fully heal. I believe I'll be like this till it's my turn to pass over and I'm only 54 and already feel,constantly exhausted from life. But every day I get up, breath in and out and try my best to cope despite my hidden and underlining unhappiness and depression. I personally understand loneliness, emptiness and grief too well my friend. I so wish I had the answer to "it all". 

I'm thinking of you,  be comforted there are good people out there that genuinely and sincerely care.

Bailey.

[Neil_1]

Dear Durras

Thank you again for your latest kind response.

Our storm, or at least rain was unfortunately highly over-rated.  We did get rain but not nearly as much as was forecast – and now the weather has gone crazy silly again.  It’s damn chilly out with massive winds as well.  Come back summer, I say.

I’m really pleased that you feel so good about this site – I think a lot of work has gone into it (by the staff in the background) to make it such a fantastic place to be.  I think on the internet and life in general, things have potential to get out of hand very quickly, but on here, the good people from Beyond Blue have made a place that is inviting, warm, friendly and everyone is made to feel welcome and special.  That is a huge thing for us … and yes, even though none of us have ever met, it does feel like we are friends, mates, acquaintances and we feel very comfortable being able to converse so much with each other.

I know I’ve opened up quite a bit over my time on here and that’s something I never thought I’d do anywhere.

Will be thinking of you while you’re away and hope that you have an absolutely awesome time while you’re in NZ.

Kind regards to you my friend,

Neil