Marriage breakup + kids

[dl23]

Hi

So my wife and I met in high school and have been together for 24 years, married for 14 years. Over the past 8 years or so (after second child, now 😎 was born, we have had some ups and downs. I would just sometimes have a go at her about random stuff; money, clothes or food. Then she would try and talk to me and I was too pigheaded and wouldn't really listen.

Now the time has come where she has had enough and wants to sell our new and amazing house, separate into smaller houses/units and rent. We share the custody of our two kids. I am really scared about telling the kids and don't think I can be there for that process. They will be devastated.

I have been trying to say sorry to my wife via emails, text, chatting, video montages and poems but she tells me to stop and that she doesn't love me anymore. She said as I keep hassling her about getting back together, she doesn't even like me and the thought of talking to me or seeing me makes her physically ill. She also said that because I am making her angry, the shared custody will be so much harder.

I have been trying to show her over the past few weeks the new me. I have been calm, positive (as best I can in this situation) and more composed. I would sometimes shout at the kids for being silly but now I use a calm voice always (even when they test my patience).

I haven't been sleeping much and not eating hardly at all for 5 days (lost 4.5kg), due to being nauseous and anxious.

We have just communicated over email and she doesn't even want me to talk to her anymore or make dinner or hot drinks. I responded with I would like to keep doing it. I told her I still love her and apologise a lot for making her angry, when that is not my intention.

I am really scared of not being with her anymore and not living her. I love her so much, even when she verbally attacks me and says she doesn't love me anymore.

I can't rely on my parents as they are away and my wife and my parents never really got along. They kind of caused a lot of the tension and some of the reasons we fought.

How am I going to get through this?

[dl23]

Hi EM

Good on you. You did extremely well. So sorry you had to go fhrough all of that. It must've been so draining.

How is the relationship with him now, are kids still young or grown up?

[dl23]

Hi EM

Welcome back and I have missed your presence and positive responses. By the way I should've mentioned from the start, I am from WA.

So the counsellor thing didn't work out. She has ao much anger towards me and wouldn't even try to clear the air for the sake of the kids

I emailed her and asked to create a parenting plan, a list of items to split 50/50 and a spreadsheet for remaining loans after sale. I said it as "you will need to..." and got really aggressive about it. She said "Stop telling me what to do. All I've read is you will, you will, you will.". I keep telling her to speak to me in person as she thinks I am being nasty when she is already agitated and is looking for any ammunution.

She also said we need to take out individual personal loans to pay for our existing loans. Doesn't make any sense. I am trying to follow the Barefoot Investor and I am moving away from any loans, as much as possible.

[ecomama]

dl23 said:Hi EM

Good on you. You did extremely well. So sorry you had to go fhrough all of that. It must've been so draining.

How is the relationship with him now, are kids still young or grown up?

Hi dl23

Omg I did 15 people's work. It was all God I tell you now. I Prayed constantly for the safety of my children.

The many kids were all in Primary School when we first got him out. I got an immediate certificate to apply to Court but didn't. I needed to get my legal head around things and RESEARCH. I KNEW he wanted my money. I waited for him to lodge in Court. Which he did being broke and homeless without me. It took YEARS to settle.

My situation was COMPLETELY different to yours. He is a very dangerous psychopath. We have Police protection. On an immediate call out list. Victims services put in CCTV. The lot. The kids and I have PTSD and anxiety, some dealing with depression, all from his threats.

ZERO anything with exH. He lost his rights to be a parent. I have 100% care. It was beyond the bad I am explaining. So much worse.

SO DIFFERENT FOR YOU! Hallelujah for that brother!

EM

[ecomama]

Dear dl23

Okay, yes I worried about you! Back now.

Thanks for letting us all know you're in WA. I'm not.

So W.A. out of all the states is different to the rest. IMHO I think much better for Family Law. (Now that they sacked a heap of corrupt criminal Judges lol).
So you have added different mechanisms BEFORE anyone gets to Court I understand, beyond all other states.

That's GREAT! Courts are omg the worst.

Mmmmm W is still reacting to back before when she felt you were bullying her.

That's why I really want you to leave as much as humanly possible, bar taking care of the kids, to Mediation.

In Mediation W will not be able to bully YOU. And the Mediator can say "Yes dl23 brings up a great point there... Family Law would require YOU BOTH to (a,b,c) etc" and then it's the Mediator W can be angry with and not dear dl23 lol.

Here there are Community Lawyers you can see for free. There's also a National Legal number you can ask questions of for free. Plus Legal Aid for FL but I was conflicted out of them too lol. Not much chop there tbh. You can phone for an appt for free legal advice for FL and see how you go.

I truly believe that they'll ALL say, "Seek Mediation first and work out EVERYTHING in the assets / loans / whatever list there".

LOOK after yourself and look after the kids. That's me saying this and it's of paramount importance.

And I know, easier said than done. Hence the 180 and Gray Rock. There's no other way to stop HER bullying YOU.

And I would respond in like eg "I would appreciate you not telling me what to do. I am booking Mediation as per Family Law requirements and we can work all this stuff out there."

It's true. Emotions run freaking riot in trying to sort out this stuff even via email and IMO it's far worse for you! You've been blindsided and all this comes as huge shock. (Counsellor for this. W seems like she just doesn't care).

It was W that demanded email only communication wasn't it?
IF so then I am confident in saying that she's had legal advice. It's clear to me that she has her 'ducks in a row'. She's powering forward.

"Abuse" can be claimed by email evidence. So KEEP YOUR COOL.
Appear totally in control via email.
Call helplines, write here to get emotions out.

We've got you. You're doing AMAZINGLY well. High five.

EM

[dl23]

Thank you so much EM. The way she responded with me saying that the documents needed to be legally binded and her response "who the hell said that?" suggests she hasn't even thought of legal advice.

Should I continue with my first consultation with the lawyer I contacted? He discounted it from $220 to $165 over the phone.

Would I organise mediation through my lawyer or someone else? Sorry but a little confused on where to look.

The W hasn't said email only communication but I just can't talk to her in person regqrding anything. I did say Saturday we need to talk about things but I guarantee that it will be her trying to make all the decisions.

I have just opened a new bank account and on 23/07, that payday, our pays will be separated. I worked hard to get the first of my bonuses in this fortnights pay that I will be transferring out as its above my usual pay. It was planned for a family holiday at the start but now it goes into my account for rent bond/furniture/car loan.

Just a question, my car is in both names but W said that as soon as the house is sold, she wants her name off of it.

But the pool is only in my name but we will be paying that off together. It has a higher interest rate, so I guess I will take the car hit.

[Guest909]

G'day dl23

I think you guys are going to need the help of a mediator. When you are ready, have a talk to Relationships Australia (RA) about their "Family Dispute Resolution Service". They will send you some paper work to fill out and then invite your wife to attend a mediation session with them and you. The mediation will cover all aspects of the separation; property and parenting. This is the way to go if you want to minimise the use of expensive lawyers.

Please note that all separating couples with children are required to obtain a "Family Dispute Resolution Certificate" to confirm that an attempt at family dispute resolution was made. RA will issue this certificate if you and your wife attend mediation with them.

If you wife refuses mediation, and she most likely will, RA will issue a certificate to you to prove that you made an attempt to do the right thing. Should the matter then go to family court, it will reflect badly on her. You must be seen to be doing the right thing.

Here is an RA page that will be of some use:

https://www.relationships.org.au/relationship-advice/relationship-advice-sheets/ending-a-relationship-1/separation-or-divorce-is-a-complex-process-2013-what-should-i-do

This will take time to sort out. In the meantime, EM has given you some sound advice; do not take out any new personal loans; do not pay out any loans; do not sell anything. Apart from a new bank account in your name, leave all financial matters as they are until you talk to RA.

Depending on you wife, this will take 4-12 months to sort out; there is no rush; you have a lot to get your head around. There is a lot of free information on the web - read, read and read some more.

[dl23]

Hi EM

You mentioned mediation takes 4-12 months. Should/can the house be sold before this or only once mediation begins?

She is adamant on selling now and that she doesn't want to live with me anymore and to consider her mental health (after I asked her politely to be respecfful in her response to my email - in case she thought I was being nasty - as I am already hurting physically and mentally).

She said this:

"I'm not waiting for the bloody market to become awesome. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? It could get worse. Govt payments to people without jobs is finishing soon, which means more houses will be on the market soon. We should beat that."

She has already laid out a parenting plan without discussing with me (I said on Saturday we need to lock ourselves in the study as this can't be discussed via email). She wants the kids Wed-Thurs and me to have them Sun-Tues. I will still go to their sports on Sat morning but I am unsure how it works if I have AFL membership seats and the game is on her day. Can this be altered, for the sake of the kids?

She said she has done a sheet about to divide items and I said along with the parenting plan, loans and house they need to be legally binded. She was like "Who the hell said that?" It just goes to show that they need to be due to her behaviour and controlling attitude in making decisions without me.

I have a GP appointment on Friday to get a plan and a referral to a counsellor. I hav e to take my youngest with me and he will have to have his over the ear headphones one with ipad. No other way.

I plan to see a counsellor ASAP after GP. Should I send W an email with an update that I have been and working through this for the kids. She clearly needs to see someone as well but she won't. I will always care and love her, which is why I am trying my best to be civil and nice. I just wish she would've done one session with me ro have a chat but no luck.

I need to service my 4wd on Saturday and can't even ask W to follow me there to drive me home. Will have to pack the bike.

This is all so much work and difficult.

[Guest909]

Hi dl

If your wife willing, the matter can go to mediation as soon as the paper work with RA has been sorted out. After that, it will really depend on when RA can fit you in. Ring RA and ask about their "Family Dispute Resolution Service"; they will explain the service and what is required. I found them to be helpful. They will guide you through the process from start to finish.

If you guys can come to an agreement about property and parenting at mediation, the agreement will written up as a "Binding Financial Agreement" or "Consent Orders". Once again, the RA mediator will help turn your agreement into one of these legal documents.

If your wife has drawn up documents about parenting and property she can take them to mediation; you can do the same. The mediator will work through any disagreements you might have; that is what they do. The alternative is to do it through lawyers and that will be ridiculously expensive and slow.

In regard to the house, hold off until an agreement has been reached at mediation. Your wife does not know what she is talking about.

If you are at all uncertain, let the RA mediator guide you through the process.

As I said, there is no rush; work at your own pace. If you wife wants to jump up and down about the house, let her. Things have to be done the right way; not her way.

[ecomama]

dl23 YES IT'S difficult, that's why we're on board and supporting you all the way.

OK I can see you are confused and this happens ALOT.

Breathe OUT. Push all that CO2 OUT. Relax shoulders. Straighten back. Look up to the ceiling. YES do it lol.

TICK - Awesome for GP appt for Mental Health Plan. Yes fantastic.

Next:
* as per Mr Paul's advice (I echo it all)... book in for Mediation with R.A. ASAP. Take their first appt. You go first. Ask them EVERYTHING you are asking here. This is by far the CHEAPEST option for resolution. (Can take weeks / months for this 1st appt).
* R.A. GUIDE you on what to do next. THEY contact W. Leave it to them.
* You DO NOT need to "engage" a Lawyer. By this I mean the whole shebang, thousands laid down and then they take over and it's a nightmare.
* YES seek legal advice in all the free ways you can. Google.
* RE: Parenting Plan - leave it for Mediation.
* RE: ANYTHING financial - leave it for Mediation (M).
* NO I would not sell the house - NO WAY. Who knows where this will end up? maybe by the time you are through with M you could be in a better financial situation to BUY HER OUT. Leave it for M.

OKAY so booking Mediation.

* Deflect all W emails with regards to selling the house eg "I respectfully ask that you no longer tell me to sell the house and all that entails. I am booking Mediation as per requirements of FL and things can be sorted out there with a Mediator present. Please refrain from trying to push me into anything. I have accepted the marriage is over. I plan to move forward in the best interest of the children." Just copy and paste that, broken record style.
* It's none of her business if you are seeing a Counsellor. I wouldn't tell her. It can come out in M if need be.
* YOU CAN GO TO THE FOOTBALL any time you wish. Remember ANY public places are just that. PUBLIC.
I can go too if I want! No discussion with W necessary. Sure! The kids football too and ANY other public spaces.
(Just be careful NOT to approach W at these places. This could be seen as harassment. Gray Rock. 180.)
* you have to be super organized to be a single parent. You can do this. I changed mechanics to one that loans a FREE loan car for the day - easy. Used a bus etc.

Remember Google is your friend re: FL.

Going great!

EM

[ecomama]

Mr Paul said:

Hi dl

If your wife willing, the matter can go to mediation as soon as the paper work with RA has been sorted out. After that, it will really depend on when RA can fit you in. Ring RA and ask about their "Family Dispute Resolution Service"; they will explain the service and what is required. I found them to be helpful. They will guide you through the process from start to finish.

If you guys can come to an agreement about property and parenting at mediation, the agreement will written up as a "Binding Financial Agreement" or "Consent Orders". Once again, the RA mediator will help turn your agreement into one of these legal documents.

If your wife has drawn up documents about parenting and property she can take them to mediation; you can do the same. The mediator will work through any disagreements you might have; that is what they do. The alternative is to do it through lawyers and that will be ridiculously expensive and slow.

In regard to the house, hold off until an agreement has been reached at mediation. Your wife does not know what she is talking about.

If you are at all uncertain, let the RA mediator guide you through the process.

As I said, there is no rush; work at your own pace. If you wife wants to jump up and down about the house, let her. Things have to be done the right way; not her way.

MAN IS SHE going to jump up and down all right!

YES no rush.

The "right way" spot on.

I know dl23 that 'nothing feels right'. That all this seems counterintuitive. You're right. It is. The emotional upheaval is total from what we perceive as a "loving family" and a previously 'loving' spouse. A 'future' with them all etc.

You will always have your family, just minus her. Things will seem overwhelming and they are. BUT GROUNDING YOURSELF is your priority. Ask your new Counsellor for grounding exercises (I've started giving you some ;-).

Please don't say things like "I'll always be there for you" to W. And the rest.
IMHO she needs to feel what it's like to NOT have you at her beck and call.

You're doing well. The pressure will mount once you set up boundaries we, Mediators and lawyers will tell you are your rights. I think W will go bananas. Walk away. Don't try to calm her. Take the kids to the park!

You've got this!

EM