Marriage breakup + kids

[dl23]

Hi

So my wife and I met in high school and have been together for 24 years, married for 14 years. Over the past 8 years or so (after second child, now 😎 was born, we have had some ups and downs. I would just sometimes have a go at her about random stuff; money, clothes or food. Then she would try and talk to me and I was too pigheaded and wouldn't really listen.

Now the time has come where she has had enough and wants to sell our new and amazing house, separate into smaller houses/units and rent. We share the custody of our two kids. I am really scared about telling the kids and don't think I can be there for that process. They will be devastated.

I have been trying to say sorry to my wife via emails, text, chatting, video montages and poems but she tells me to stop and that she doesn't love me anymore. She said as I keep hassling her about getting back together, she doesn't even like me and the thought of talking to me or seeing me makes her physically ill. She also said that because I am making her angry, the shared custody will be so much harder.

I have been trying to show her over the past few weeks the new me. I have been calm, positive (as best I can in this situation) and more composed. I would sometimes shout at the kids for being silly but now I use a calm voice always (even when they test my patience).

I haven't been sleeping much and not eating hardly at all for 5 days (lost 4.5kg), due to being nauseous and anxious.

We have just communicated over email and she doesn't even want me to talk to her anymore or make dinner or hot drinks. I responded with I would like to keep doing it. I told her I still love her and apologise a lot for making her angry, when that is not my intention.

I am really scared of not being with her anymore and not living her. I love her so much, even when she verbally attacks me and says she doesn't love me anymore.

I can't rely on my parents as they are away and my wife and my parents never really got along. They kind of caused a lot of the tension and some of the reasons we fought.

How am I going to get through this?

[Guest_7403]

Unfortunately mate you can't control the actions of others, regardless of your opinion or what you'd like to happen.

Shes made her decision regarding the marriage at this point, and shes pressing forward with sperating at full steam ahead.

By not making your stance known on the house in order to manipulate her into counselling is probably not the best path for you to take

Honesty is key here, and regardless of her reaction thats your decision to make and your entitled to make that.

Eventually the house will sell either way depending on whether you allow it now, or at the divorce settlement.

Its your choice how to approach that, if you want to wait based on current property market, or to let the dust settle then make that your choice.

But think about how you do it, without trying to guilt her into doing what you want in regards to staying together, they are two seperate issues

Apologies if that comes across as blunt, im trying to give you constructive criticism

I truly sympathise with you, I have lost my home previously to this too

[Guest909]

"I am going to contact 3 lawyers and talk about what needs to be done and costs. I want it done outside of courts as that will be pricey."

Good move. It is always advisable do resolve these matters outside of court; it's quicker and cheaper. If you have trouble coming to an agreement about property, there are a number of dispute resolution processes outside of court - viz mediation and arbitration plus some others. Relationships Australia can help you and your wife mediate an agreement if you need help. From memory the fee is very reasonable.

The legal advice is about making an informed decisions; nothing more. Yes, you may end up selling the house, but there is more to divorce than just selling the house. The sale of the house is the easy part. Who knows, your parents might be willing to take a part equity (ownership) in the house once the dust settles; just a thought.

If you do go to a lawyer, make sure you talk to a lawyer that specialises in Family Law. A criminal lawyer will be as useful as the "proverbial" on a bull. Many Family Law specialists will offer a fee first consultation; no strings attached; worth a look.

In regard to counselling, have you seen your GP about a Mental Health Care Plan. If no, this plan will give you Medicare subsidised access to a phycologist; again, worth a look.

Unfortunately you are on a well worn road. EM, Theborderline and I know it all to well.

Please stay in touch!

[dl23]

I have found a local lawyer with really good reviews, with their practice that is involved with family law. I had a long chat on the phone with the owner of the firm. He gave me a discount for the initial consultation which was really nice. He also mentioned to me that I should contact the real estate agent and advise them that I had received an email from my wife about selling the house. And also I was not advised and they have not got the 'Authority to Sell'. Not sure if that sounds like something I should do. I am telling my wife the same thing about not selling. They also want half the advertising costs up front before any signing of papers.

I am going to tell my wife that I don't wish to sign the papers at this stage due to the real estate climate and that I wish I was informed and kept in the loop and not just told that this is happening.

I also will tell her to organise a parenting plan, a list of splitting household items 50/50 (and shared children costs eg. school) and a list of loans in case we don't make enough on the house down the track to get rid of them.

I told her I would put the home theatre setup for sale (projector, speakers and the amplifier) up for sale closer to the sale date. This will be split 50/50.

I told her I would not give up the kids sports on the weekend, even if it was her turn. I have always been there and helped out.

I told her that I don't want any awkwardness or for her to avoid me. I said I will always love her and care for her but now only as a friend. And that I would be there for her if she needed anything

I finished off by saying I will go to my GP (medicare subsidised) about seeking some help through this (probably not the counsellor that I organised due to the cost). And also that I have changed but I know it is too late.

Still waiting for a call back from my parents regarding house. I don't think I can ask them or put them in the position to guarantor for me. They probably don't want to or able to.

I love the house but I am decided if it nice to stay and have the kids here or would it make me more depressed due to the memories and not having the family here. I know one thing, I will be more depressed in a new house, especially when I have to rent and start all over again.

I feel so depressed.

[Guest909]

If the house is in joint names, the house cannot be listed or sold without your signature. Your signature will be required on the Agency Agreement and the Marketing Contract - assuming you are in NSW. That being said, there is no rush to do anything. Talk to the agent and tell him to hold off if you want; it can't hurt.

The marketing fees are only payable after the Agency Agreement is signed; once again, no issue if you don't sign.

There is a lot to sort out before you start thinking about the house. The sale of the house will be the easy part.

The people at Relationships Australia may be able to give you some extra free legal advice. Here is their link. They can also help mediate a property settlement and a parenting plan (ask to be sure) all for a very reasonable fee. If you can come to an agreement with the help of Relationships Australia, you will save a fortune in legal fees. I found them to be very helpful - maybe I was just lucky.

https://www.relationships.org.au/

There are no pressing timelines, so take your time and move at your own pace.

You are going to need all the support you can get. A visit to the GP is a step in the right direction.

[dl23]

The agent wants advertising fees (50%) upfront before any signing of a contract. Well that's how it sounded when the wife emailed me.

I tried calling RA but no response. Will try again later.

I spoke to my parents who were so upset and unfortunately as they are travelling with the caravan, can't offer any in person support. The phone chat was good. I mentioned I want to keep the house but could only borrow 75% of the borrowing capacity, in the hope they may help. But I understand they can't, which is fine.

I just sent off the big email I mentioned in my previous post, so it will be interesting to see what she says. I did say if I upset you or make your angrier, it was not my intention and to be respectful as I am already hurting mentally and physically.

I am a little curious about something, though. This could burn all bridges but would it be way out place and disrespectul if I were to ask if there was anything else I was missing or not aware of, with regards to our separation? (e.g. someone else involved) I have known her since she was 14, so I shouldn't really be thinking like this at all. It's so stupid.

[Guest909]

Mentally and physically you are drained and in a bad place. Give yourself some time to recover and think things through; there is no rush.

[ecomama]

Hi dl23, sorry for my absence BACK NOW. I know you're hurting, I know this is all shocking to you.
Trust me I KNOW and so do we all here.

Rational thinking cap on. Emotions to one side. Power on brother!
We need to compartmentalize in THREE sections.

Kids

[ecomama]

HI dl23, I KNOW you're hurting & is hard. Cyber hug. NOW POWER ON brother.

Rational thinking cap ON.
Compartmentalize FOUR sectors: 1: YOU 2: KIDS 3: HOUSE /finances etc. 4: Relationship.

1. YOU - will survive this. 180 all the way.
Do as Mr Paul said.
Get a Sole Bank Account - all pay going in there.
Google your rights. ONLY pay a Family Lawyer (FL) when you have clear questions + spot help through Mediation later.
Go to work.
Limit or delete alcohol - it ignites feelings.

2. Kids - ref to earlier post. Work out Parenting Plan (PP) DURING Mediation via Relationships Australia. In NSW they make parents do a parenting Course separately. The rest later. NB: In public spaces ie Sport you can attend whenever you want. No need to tell W now.

3. House - email Agent, call everything off. (Nothing's signed by you so it's a 'so what'). Ask for No Contact with you & you'll contact IF the joint decision is made to sell later. Short & SWEET.
Accounts, bills, debts etc can be worked out DURING Mediation for Property Settlement. More on that later.
Leave it, get your "calm", find moments to breathe OUT and relax.
W can spend whatever she wants! Its HER money! Whatever she buys becomes Marital Assets so it's nuts IMO. Whatevs, not your responsibility to tell her anything, It's hers to find out.
SAVE your money.
Present W with joint bills and pay 50%.

4. Relationship with W - the 180 & Gray Rock all the way.
A MAJOR shift needs to happen. At this point I would NOT disclose anything to her, especially how you're feeling, she's full steam ahead. (Tell Counsellor, us, friends, your family). Don't bother asking if there's anyone else, she'd probably lie if there was, you'll find out later if that's the case and it can make you look paranoid EVEN IF IT'S true. That's what I was hinting at previously in "something seems amiss".
Don't contact her unless its about the kids.
Answer her emails in short repetitive ways eg "I'm not doing that right now, we can leave it for Mediation".
NB: there's NO apology ie "Sorry I won't do that .." The former gets your power back the later gives it away.
Please don't tell her what to do - even to call the Marriage Counsellor - nothing nada zip!
Clearly this triggers her - from before.
If W wants to move out, there's nothing stopping her.

The house? Yeah felt the same way that's why I did my interim plan, it worked out, so we stayed!

Mediation takes AGES to get in, ages to settle. BREATHE out.

YOU GOT THIS.

EM

[ecomama]

Mr Paul said:

Hi EM

"I understand W has a job?
You won't have to worry about spousal maintenance. I followed countless cases, its seldom awarded now anyway unless there's millions at stake & one spouse was a home maker. exH tried to go for this, he was laughed out of Court by the Judge."

It gives me much satisfaction to hear your take on spousal maintenance. This is something that had me concerned about my upcoming arbitration hearing.

Like you, I did my homework; but I keep getting a lot of conflicting legal advice. To my way of thinking three judges can hear the same case and come up with three different orders. Family law is a bit of a lottery; there is no way of knowing (with any certainty) how the judges (arbitrators) will rule.

I'll be happy when it is done and dusted.

Cheers

Re: 'spousal maintenance' comments I made - yep, that's how it's presently playing out in Courts.

I joined many Closed FB groups & followed cases but I ALSO signed up via the Federal Circuit Court email system & READ cases. Crikeys I worked hard lol.

There are comments about the progress of most cases and it's VERY INTERESTING.

MORE SO when you find out WHO your Judge is. ;-)) Which I did ofcourse.

Basically put - if one spouse was the home maker for decades and the other made millions and will continue to make tons, maybe a spouse may win maintenance for themselves. I have seen cases take from 6y to a decade and over to win this in THAT case even. SO CRAZY but true.

But if one spouse earnt and CURRENTLY EARNS hundreds of thousands (my friend going through this atm her H $400k per year) then THIS can be put into a % of the asset split DURING the shuttle conference etc. Calculated as monies moving forward but not paid in the future, paid out now. My friend is going for $125k to retrain. BUT it hasn't been Court Ordered yet. May not be either. Plus there's a $2 mil house and millions in his Super.
Zero spousal maintenance. 15y marriage. 3 kids 50/50.

I was by far the major breadwinner for 15+y. Kids were 100% care to me for years before he lodged in Court for money. FACS & Police had told me to withhold the children. I was terrified. But did as they said.

He went for 50% of EVERYTHING & spousal maintenance. Immediately spousal maintenance was dropped.
In the end he was looking at getting less than his lawyer's fees lol so settled. I'd paid my lawyers / barristers along the way to prep for remortgaging - nearly killed me lol but I did it.

EM

[dl23]

Hi EM

Welcome back and I have missed your presence and positive responses. By the way I should've mentioned from the start, I am from WA.

So the counsellor thing didn't work out. She has ao much anger towards me and wouldn't even try to clear the air for the sake of the kids

I emailed her and asked to create a parenting plan, a list of items to split 50/50 and a spreadsheet for remaining loans after sale. I said it as "you will need to..." and got really aggressive about it. She said "Stop telling me what to do. All I've read is you will, you will, you will.". I keep telling her to speak to me in person as she thinks I am being nasty when she is already agitated and is looking for any ammunution.

She also said we need to take out individual personal loans to pay for our existing loans. Doesn't make any sense. I am trying to follow the Barefoot Investor and I am moving away from any loans, as much as possible.

She has already told me to create new bank accounts, which I need to do tomorrow. She said this is the last fortnight, so will need to clarify if she means this Thursday (payday) we're meant to have redirected pay or not.