ANGER -> are you reactive or mindful when responding to people? *New members are very welcome to contribute

[Just Sara]

Firstly I want to thank Karen, (Ggrand) who ignited my idea for this thread. (Not pun intended lol)

Are you 'reactive' when confronting someone? Do you run away, or step back and 'think' before you speak?

These are important questions about anger and especially rage. I'm sure everyone who visits these forums will have at some point in their lives experienced out of control reactions or even 'inaction' that they regret or question afterwards. Eg..."Why didn't I say anything?" or "I shouldn't have said anything."

Personally, I'm no stranger to the effects of reactive anger. It took me many yrs to address and finally defeat as an ineffective and damaging personality trait. I still struggle sometimes, but more times than not, I deal with it productively.

Anger's a normal animal/human reaction for survival. It goes hand in hand with Fight or Flight responses to keep us safe and alive. What modern society's done though, is create confusion, denial and fear in understanding what a 'threat' actually is.

There are so many 'rules of engagement' outlined in our laws and cultural niceties, we're stifled trying to identify when a 'real' threat is immanent and, how to approach matters effectively...nature vs nurture.

I think this is a discussion we really 'need' to have. It plays into our recovery and how we want to live our lives in peace with confidence.

Are you known as an angry person, a fence sitter or passive/aggressive for instance? These are all tied into our responses to internal or external anger. For the sake of this thread topic, I'd like to keep anecdotes etc to personal experience and not about 'others'; to look at ourselves for answers.

I'm eager to hear your thoughts...

Sez

[Ggrand]

Hi Sara, Quercus and everyone else,

I posted earlier but hasn't come through yet but it's okay

I read arrested development and got upset with what I read. After a few hours of thinking about it I then decided to tell myself I couldn't control my upbringing so I'm going to ( Flick... going to accept it...not try and accept it.

Sara... I think I am beginning to understand myself after I read it through a few times as well as a a few different versions of arrested development thank .you I appreciate you letting me know about it. I will bring it up at my next physiatrist appointment.

Quercus...I like what you said "I think how we express anger has a lot to do with how we feel about ourselves as human beings" To be able to confront someone with your anger and voice your opinion is in fact saying I am worthy, I do count and I do care about myself because you are defending yourself.

Sara you have helped me so much with suggesting I read Arrested Development it's the first time in over 4 years I can sort of relate to me and my vulnerability with who I am to who I should be.. if that makes sense. Thank you so much.

Quercus your story has also helped me I'm not sure of why but it has thank you.

Kind regatds

Karen.

[geoff]

hi Sara, it's strange how moods can change over time, from being single to getting married and then alone again.
When I was married my wife did most of the anger to other people which many times embarrassed me and also did it to me, so it was only occasionally I raised my voice but when I did this terrified everyone, however in depression I was quite as a mouse.
Now being single once again I'm stern, straight to the point and won't let go until the situation has been rectified, if this doesn't happen then I take it on the chin and move on, simply because there's no point continuing.
If however I know that I'm right then I won't let up. Geoff.

[Just Sara]

Thanks Geoff for joining in on this discussion.

You've bought up a very valid point about letting go of wanting to be 'acknowledged' as being 'right'.

I had to learn to walk away for my personal safety. Feeling invisible as many of us do when growing up, and not being able to feel validated for my insight or intelligence, was absolutely gut wrenching. It broke me Geoff.

Now, I'd rather walk from an argument than engage because I'm right. It's a fight of 'wills' more than a productive endeavour I'm afraid. Many wars have been started over this type of conflict; like refusing to negotiate or agree to disagree.

As for standing up for myself, there's still a sense of dread at times. But I'm learning to speak, be gently assertive and walk if I know it's going nowhere. This is for my well being and ongoing peace of mind.

I'm not saying there aren't times to raise my voice and flare my nostrils because fighting back does let others know I won't tolerate certain things. Being right though isn't one of them anymore. It's knowing, well, like the song says;

You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run.

Geoff, how would it affect you to walk away even when you know you're right? What is it that drives your resolve?

Really interesting chatting about this subject.

Sez

[quirkywords]

Sez,

I have just found this fascinating thread.

Shell commented about the difference between assertiveness and aggression, and I found years ago when I felt I was being assertive while my ex thought I was being aggressive. I felt that was about his interpretation rather than my behaviour as I had no anger at all. I was just expressing an opinion.

I feel I use my anger against myself and not towards others. I sometimes get angry at myself when I do something silly or when I worry about things I don't want to.

Quirky

[blondguy]

Hi Sara

Im sorry about my robotic reply to your great thread topic. Sometimes I type (the super old fashioned word for post) before I think.....doh!

My kindest as always Sara

Paul xo

[Just Sara]

Hi Paul;

Thanks for explaining as I didn't know you were expressing personal experience; I thought it was advice about all. No problems ok...all good. Thankyou for your contribution too btw. It is important to vent with your psych when the 'unknown' factor gets on top of you. If it works, work it!

Hey Shelley and Quirky;

Assertive vs aggression; I find this confusion applies mainly to women. (But not exclusively) I've been accused of being aggressive towards managers for instance when approached with unacceptable terms in my workplace over and again. My emotions were raw and overwhelming. I still struggle to stay composed when standing up for myself with authorities.

If it's my son though, I'll get my claws out and fight to the death. Go figure! I don't stutter or take deep breaths; I walk the walk, talk the talk and their response is usually to back down and give me what I want or sneer and growl at me. A man did this once; my son's boss who physically frog marched him across a crowded room to get him off his property.

I went straight down there, stared him in the eyes after he swore at me, and said I refused to be intimidated, get my son the required paperwork he needed immediately and quoted legislation re his legal obligations as an employer. I never lost my gaze, he turned and walked away grumbling under his breath.

Now why can't I do this for myself?! I was focused, pumped up on adrenaline and had the expertise to promote my cause...my son's fair and legally appropriate rights being respected.

I WAS angry, but I channelled it positively. I understand the concept surrounding my inability to assert myself well in my workplace. I just don't understand how I could stand up for my son as if there was no tomorrow with my diagnosis of complex PTSD.

Anyhoo, as I see it, aggression is being emotive, and asserting oneself is being unemotional; that's all I can work out.

I wonder if there's anyone out there to help us solve this conundrum.

Sez

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Sez,

Interesting comments and thoughts on aggression versus assertiveness.

I can appreciate that everyone will have their own opinions on it. But my personal understanding is a key difference is that assertiveness involves expressing one’s opinions and exerting one’s rights BUT respectfully and calmly. I personally don’t see it as necessarily being unemotional but others may feel differently and that’s okay too.

To me, assertiveness is having a “voice” but without name calling, shouting, put-downs and other insults, turn-taking in terms of talking and listening, etc. As I said, I think showing respect for the other person/people underpins assertiveness. Just my thoughts anyway...

Thanks Sez 🙂

Pepper xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

*correction: “...with turn-taking in terms of talking and listening...”

Sorry, not “without”

Pepper xoxo

[geoff]

hi Sarah, if I had to walk away knowing I'm in the right, then 'proof is in the pudding', and if I don't care or even believe in what I'm trying to aim for, then do I actually have a goal I want to achieve, although this differs completely when suffering from depression, but that's what I have learnt coming out of depression. Geoff.

[blondguy]

Hi Sara, Its only what I have learned from my doctors for 30+ years after long term anxiety/depression. The more frequent the therapy/counseling, the stronger our foundations are to utilize the various coping techniques more effectively.

As I mentioned above, frequent counseling can be an invaluable tool for many people to find some peace in their lives. I did try hard with sporadic visits for nearly 15 years and just for me (and many others) I was still thinking I could get better. I posted here for the good of the many...not the few

Just in my situation infrequent counseling provided little gain...but as you mentioned its better than nothing and thats for sure Sara

This is a great thread where people can voice their own experience when it comes to anger management without judgement. There are great posts here with different ideas about being mindful and not reactive with anger. Its a very broad yet an important thread that will help many people

My Kind thoughts (and Kudos for the great thread topic too)

Paul