ANGER -> are you reactive or mindful when responding to people? *New members are very welcome to contribute

[Just Sara]

Firstly I want to thank Karen, (Ggrand) who ignited my idea for this thread. (Not pun intended lol)

Are you 'reactive' when confronting someone? Do you run away, or step back and 'think' before you speak?

These are important questions about anger and especially rage. I'm sure everyone who visits these forums will have at some point in their lives experienced out of control reactions or even 'inaction' that they regret or question afterwards. Eg..."Why didn't I say anything?" or "I shouldn't have said anything."

Personally, I'm no stranger to the effects of reactive anger. It took me many yrs to address and finally defeat as an ineffective and damaging personality trait. I still struggle sometimes, but more times than not, I deal with it productively.

Anger's a normal animal/human reaction for survival. It goes hand in hand with Fight or Flight responses to keep us safe and alive. What modern society's done though, is create confusion, denial and fear in understanding what a 'threat' actually is.

There are so many 'rules of engagement' outlined in our laws and cultural niceties, we're stifled trying to identify when a 'real' threat is immanent and, how to approach matters effectively...nature vs nurture.

I think this is a discussion we really 'need' to have. It plays into our recovery and how we want to live our lives in peace with confidence.

Are you known as an angry person, a fence sitter or passive/aggressive for instance? These are all tied into our responses to internal or external anger. For the sake of this thread topic, I'd like to keep anecdotes etc to personal experience and not about 'others'; to look at ourselves for answers.

I'm eager to hear your thoughts...

Sez

[Ggrand]

Hello Sara

thats a good question you asked me and I have been going over a few things that might cause others anger.

1.. I was driving to town, country roads are not good. When I heard a loud bang I pulled over frightened and realised my windscreen had been hit by a rock and cracked. I cried thinking how am I going to get the money to fix this. I then remembered a truck had passed in the opposite direction. I only felt defeated as no money to fix it. No anger at all

2.. I paid a considerable amount of Money to put a fence put up to keep my dogs from getting out and onto the road. The day after, I get a call saying they were out again. I went home then checked the fence. I found a couple of poles had come out, I rang the fence man and told him. He got angry I know because he swore and said he can't repair it for a few days. Not wanting to face an angry person I told him I will fix the poles so I did. Angry at him no. More annoyed then anything else.

3... I needed to see my sons together one weekend my brother arranged the meeting as he was going to be there to support me. Only my youngest turned up. Brother could not come and eldest was to busy. I cried again but not angry tears they were from frustration and guilt (won't go into the guilt part)

4... I leased a small general store/ post office a couple of years ago in town, the previous leasees had two books hence and I started loosing money from day 1. Eventually after 2 years I shut it I lost thousands in the shop plus unpaid credit amounting to over $500.00. I let the credit go as I was to frightened of their response to ask for it. I had residents knocking on my door all hours abusing me about no postal deliveries, we all had to travel a round trip of 80klms to collect it now. Not angry here either instead guilt was what I felt I blamed myself for being so stupid as to not check things out properly.

These are a few I can think of since I've been widowed and Im curious now as to how you all would have reacted to these situations. Would you have been angry, annoyed, frustrated?

Kind regards,

Karen.

[Guest_1055]

Hi Sara,

I may be a little like Karen there, I am not certain though. When growing up it was unconsciously taught that emotions including anger was not to be expressed or even awknowledged that it existed. It was like feeling emotions was something that was uncomfortable. I do remember feeling a few times angry whilst growing up ( except at that time, I did not know it was called anger) I never saw anger in any of my siblings or parents. Not the forceful yelling out or anything. So anyway I think I just stuffed in down somewhere inside myself. Stuffed down with all the other emotions, that could never be expressed. Even the feeling of tears were stuffed down there. Then years later , lots of these emotions came out. Even rage... which was such a scary feeling for me to feel. So forceful and I hated feeling it. I did not know what to do with it either. It just exploded out like some hidden volcano. Tears now also came out. So much that I am still crying. I was not taught how to manage any emotion including anger.

Anyway now I can recognise the emotion of anger, I can feel it. My body feels like it wants to punch and punch, run away, hit out, kick, and scream. I have also come to realise that anger for me comes from no getting something you need or want. And that it is quite normal to feel angry sometimes. But it is what you do with it that matters. Lashing out at someone else in anger can hurt them. It can also be destructive such as breaking things, punching holes in walls etc.

I am still learning about anger and what to do with it when I start to feel it. I do not want to keep it or stuff it down because then it may turn into self pity, ( which I think I am wallowing in right this minute) and it may push me into that dark place, may explode suddenly and hurt others.

So doing some kind of physical exercise helps me .... ooh gosh, I have lost the plot. Not to worry.

Me xx

[Guest_1055]

Karen.... I think I would feel pretty much the same as you there in all those situations. I wonder why the fence guy was angry though? I think I may feel like I was a nuisance to him. But logic is telling me that it was his responsibility to fix the fences and he was not very professional in the way he took out his anger. Not good for his business either.

As for the frustration and annoying feelings... I could be wrong about this, but I think they are like the start of anger. Like if those feelings are not awknowledged ( which you did) and then dealt with, well maybe it does not get the opportunity to grow into anger or something. And it does not get pushed down either to later explode or turn you into the dark place..... Just my thoughts Karen, I have no idea if it is the truth.

Shell xx

[Flick_SnotGrass]

Dear Just Sara et al,

Absolutely great thread. GOLD STARS!!!!!

"ANGER. wot me angry? oh, no, no, no, not me...that wouldn't be nice...and we MUST be nice, mustn't we Flick." ..... sounds like Golem.

Yup, our ANGER response is part of our self protection circuitry

~ some of us freeze and hope 'it' goes away

~ some of us run away and take flight from 'it'

~ and some of us lose our Temper at 'it'

Being of the English persuasion, and bourne in 1949, it was 'unwise' of us seen and not heard kids, in our rigid family dynamic, to express our anger openly,

but

it doesn't help to block it, as I expensively found out.

Actually, I do remember getting very angry with my parents and giving them a jolly good telling off ... when I was three.

You see as a healthy fully functioning three year old I thought it was quite appropriate to play on the roof of the coal bunker but Dad and Mum disagreed.

I can still remember them laughing at me as I stamped off down the garden path to the vegetable plot and had a good shout at them.

Scarred me for life it did.

Well almost...I became an exquisite Passive Hostile.

Exquisite.

And a 'Stirrer'.

[I got a wooden spoon for my eighth birthday...no kidding...stop laughing Quercus, it's rude to mock the afflicted,,, where was I? Oh yes Passive Hostile.

and nasty with it.

But no one guides you.

"Hey Buddy that's a pretty self defeating anger pattern you're running there, you probably wouldn't want to take care of it yet?...no, I didn't think so."

I never got the How to Be a Human documentation either...did you?

So we block our feelings [essential for boys, who must not cry because only cissies and girls cry and we must grin and bear it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think one of the big breakthroughs in Me healing my terrible excema was when Brian slipped up one day at a party and I told an inquisitive someone that my scabs was actually infancy excema...

I was 42....

ouch,

hahahaha

Anywho...what I have gleaned so far...

acknowledge your feelings even if they're bit tender,

check your hands,

breathe

and

do a Dory "Just keep swimming, swimming, swi

What do they say? "A sign of maturity is doing something even if your parents would approve

Hugz,

Flick SnotGrass

[Ggrand]

Hi Shelly, Sara, and

I was thinking the same that being annoyed and frustrated is the start of or a type of anger.

These feelings I got from these incidents don't go away or are not acknowledged they linger in my thoughts as they invade my headspace and I think on them over long periods of time. Even years later.

when I do think about them "like now" well, they continue to go round my thoughts I begin to dislike "being a better word " myself for being so weak for not standing up for myself and righting a wrong done to me. and I wish I had more courage. I think courage only comes when you feel anger enough to right a wrong that's been done to you.

Without anger I can't see how we can have courage or self respect as you can't defend yourself from wrong done to you

Anger is I think ..is the release of the emotion...and not the emotion itself.

Just my thoughts

kind regards

Karen

[Carla09]

Prior to my mid 20’s I was a fairly pAssive person...i however was in a fairly verbally abusive relationship in my early 20’s which unfortunately left me being a very reactive person prone to rage...despite being happily married for almost 10 years to a kind gentle person, when I am feeling depressed my mind still tends to remember all the negative nasty things that were said to me in my early 20’s...and when confronted with someone that makes me feel like my ex...I feel A deep sense of rage...

l

[Just Sara]

Dear Shelly and Karen;

Thankyou both for opening up as you have which gives much insight.

Self blame is a way of avoiding anger. This leads to guilt, internal resentments and an inability to protect yourselves. This avoidance is a valuable key to self knowledge. It's at this point we're on auto pilot that asks 'what if?'. It's like a game of chess.

Each move on the board will incur a response from the opponent. It's this worry that forms habits of avoidance. For you Karen, fear of being belted with the jug cord was a type of grooming by parents to keep you in line. That fear far outweighed rational decision making so freezing kept you safe, you stayed silent.

In essence, you've stayed frozen all your life, even at times running or fighting would've been more successful, as with your fence man. In serious situations that might end in violence, we think staying quiet will work, yet it doesn't so we blame ourselves again for not doing the right thing and try all sorts of tactics to avoid the inevitable except fighting or fleeing.

Shelley, releasing anger in positive ways has to be learned as you've found out. Congratulations! I dare say when you were a toddler there would've been the odd tanty yeah? I'm wondering if you were ignored, punished or placed in seclusion as a means of being dealt with.

Those early yrs are a training ground for future responses to unsettling stimuli. Each event teaches us how to behave. It took me until I was 33 to say 'No!' to my mother. Why? I was scared shitless of her.

This brings up a very important problem; Arrested Development. I don't have enough space to explain so if you research the term, it might help to enlighten you.

In my own case, learning to develop assertiveness, eg...rebelling by saying 'no', was stifled by 'learned' frozen fear.

I have no doubt I probably did say no at some stage and was severely punished; lesson learned hey.

This dialog is really important. It's a great issue to bring up with psych's and even parents. It's probably the case they went thru the same training and just passed it on.

Lovely chatting...

Sez

[Just Sara]

Sorry Carla and Karen;

You both must've posted at the same time as me.

Carla, raging 'at the moon' isn't abnormal. It's letting out frustrations from dysfunctional beliefs about others and yourself. Moreso, communication deficits.

Karen, I have no doubt frustration/resentment/anger from challenging old memories/habits/beliefs is a result of being alone and 'safe' from harm. (Being widowed)

For you both, focus is on the other person/situation. That needs to be turned around to look at how you've responded to 'them'. (With empathy, understanding and forgiveness. Not harsh judgement ok) Not blame their behaviour alone for the outcome.

We need to really 'know ourselves' to change, not ruminate on why 'they' did whatever. If you think back at how you acted, would you change it? If the answer is yes, then bring that into the present and retrain your Brian to respond differently if it happens again. (Thanks again Flick!)

Self empowerment is the only way to go. We absolutely cannot control others. So it's pointless getting angry about the past. It's gone and long forgotten in the minds of those who hurt you.

How do I know this? It's been part of my recovery plan to learn assertiveness (not aggression) and not take on blame for what others do/have done; even if it's at 'their' peril. They wouldn't do it for me!

I hope I've made sense y'all. 🙂

Sez

[Quercus]

Hi Sara,

This thread gets more facinating by the day. I think how we express anger has a lot to do with how we feel about ourselves as a human being. At the time when I had this outburst I felt pretty worthless deep down.

You asked...

How do you think things would've worked out if you'd sat her down in the beginning instead of waiting?

I wouldn't have. In order for me to stand up for myself things had to get to breaking point. It is only a recent thing for me to start voicing how I feel at the minor annoyances and not let them build.

It is very hard to do. Part of speaking up involved me trying to accept I deserve to be treated better. And that my opinion is valid and important. In other words trying to learn I am not worthless.

I am learning. It is trial and error and easy to fall back on old habits and feel crap about myself again. But necessary. Swallowing anger and letting it build is unhealthy. I either end up exploding or imploding and either way I get upset.

Time to accept it doesn't have to be like this. And to change.

❤ Nat

[Guest_1055]

What about assertiveness verses aggression? I think aggression may stem from anger, but assertiveness is like standing up for yourself. A bit like Nat was saying perhaps??

Being assertive can be done in a kind and respectful way. So I am learning slowly.

Anyway I think those two words are connected somehow to anger.

And Sara.... mmm I am not sure what discipline I had. I know it would never had been talked about though. I always felt not noticed and invisible.

Shell x