Does the pain ever going to go away?

TrueSeeker

Hello,

I grew up in a narcissistic family and due to comfort zone ended in a short abusive marriage as well. My new partner grew up in similar environment and because his parents divorced and remarried more narcissists, we have to deal with three narcissistic families. We haven't really realised what is going on in our lives till recently when we did more research on what is going on in our lives and why we seem to be so unlucky.

Unfortunately, we had to cut all our ties with our families as it became very mentally challenging, had a very negative influence on our lives and we started feeling that it's becoming life threatening too as one of my partners brothers committed suicide 20 years ago.

I think we have done what we could to deal with the damage that has been done but I still have this pain inside me that keeps interfering with my happiness. It doesn't help that more pain still keeps coming from those families as they're not happy that we're distancing ourselves and still keep causing more harm.

I've lived with this pain most of my life and I'd love to hear whether anyone has a similar experience and some tips how to make the pain go away.

white knight

Hi, welcome

It's commendable that you both have identified with the destructive sides of your families, done research and taken action, most people continue with those toxic relationships and it becomes a cycle of disown/own/disown for up to decades.

Survival in life mentally can include such challenges and narcissism is more common than people know, selfishness, manipulation, triangulation etc all come under that heading. I have had those challenges with the females of my family so action began in 1989 when I had a 12 month break from my parents, then in 2011 broke all contact with my mother and she passed away couple months ago, and 3 years ago my sister that behaved the same as our mother, estranged now there also.

So what is the result is the emptiness that you feel now, the grief process and the ongoing saga of any pressure they bare in order to display objection- "how could you" moments. That opens up in my opinion, the greatest challenge you both have- to ignore the guilt that comes from that attitude and your own thoughts. How do we do this?

It is important to prioritise things. Your health is paramount, not other peoples demands. Your peace of mind and your willingness to go through your life with the least amount of trauma to a "paradise" lifestyle of happiness and calm. Those that are not along for the same ride deserve the distance you create. This is all self survival that takes precedence over family obligation.

What this lifestyle of paradise should include is a firm boundary but it also includes a view that "while I am seeking this new calming life it doesnt mean I will treat my family members in the same nasty guilt tripping manner, it will mean a mature way of communicating if and when required together with the active boundaries we implement.

Take xams as a fine example. If you want xmas day together with your partner you should have it, or with friends, have it, or with selected family, have it. It's your xmas day not a xmas that includes toxic family members that risk upsetting your time. If questioned then you can politely reverse the situation by saying "you are entitled to spend your xmas with your chosen guests, as I am, I just value my time to be calm and free of upheaval and history has shown that I risk that." They can take that in any way they deem fit, its the truth but it isnt narcissistic.

I hope I've helped you through the labyrinth of dealing with controlling people.

Reply anytime

TonyWK

TrueSeeker

Thank you so much for understanding.

It's very confusing and mentally demanding. Whatever we do is not good enough for them, we tried so many different things. It even seems that the better we do, the more bad treatment we get. We both and my partner grew up being the targets. In this dynamic, someone usually has to be blamed for other members faults and mistakes and it's us. There is also a big inheritance in play and the more members of the family get pushed out, the more money left for whoever stays. Also, parents use the inheritance as a tool to control others. Of course, they all agree that we're horrible because it's so convenient to them, it makes them look better and don't have to change because it's not them.

As much as it's great that me and my partner love each other and understand each other because we come from similar families, it compounds the damage. When we met we both couldn't believe that we found someone that understands and is loving and caring. Our lives blossomed, we both did very well in our jobs and wanted to buy a house together. Within weeks, manipulation started and we left our jobs under false promises of big opportunities overseas. I was told that my partner is not ready for long term relationship and we both ended up
in different countries. Nothing good came out of it and we both lost money and drive. It took us a while to recover because of more and more big dramas but we did and finally bought our dream house. And again, manipulations started. I had enough and distanced myself but I couldn't stand between my partner and his family and I supported him in having contact with them. Within couple of years he was pushed out too. We couldn't believe how relaxing and enjoyable the life became without constant worry of what what we're going to get accused of. A huge weight came off our shoulders. We even accepted the fact that we're not getting any inheritance, life is not all about money.

Couple of years later, my partner's brother contacted us and wanted to keep contact again. We thought that he's different and we welcomed him and treated him well. Then one of the inheritances came and he got it all. We were prepared for that but because his brother had a guilt about it, he accused us of so many hurtful things just so he can feel better about keeping it all.

We feel so hurt, we let him have all his money and we're still the bad ones!

I'm sorry about the long post, I think I could write a TV series about this. Even to us when we look at our situation it feels so surreal.

white knight

I relate to all of what you said and I am fine reading it.

You are correct in that "money isnt everything". But also in my case my mother was destructive, ruining my 1st wedding and threatening to ruin the 2nd wedding when I got a judge to order an AVO to prevent her from attending. She was 79yo then and as destructive as ever.

I'd like to talk about your partner. These family events can bring couples together to become stronger. That's great however both of you in different ways will inherit parts of your family that will rise on occasions to remind the other of them, this is normal. So you both really need a pact to promise that you wont ever throw similarities at the other. The other risk is if you both separate. If that occurs the temptation might be to return to your family. I'd suggest that isnt wise. So how do we overcome that temptation?

The answer is by creating a happy lifestyle recruiting non narcissistic people and the numbers dont matter, a few to dozens as long as they are quality people. Also hobbies and passions are good to immerse yourself into. Fill your life up and they'll be few idle times for your mind to wander to family issues and memories. After a few years you'll not think of them much, occupying empty space in your mind. You should also priase yourselves for seeking a better life.

I wrote a article here some years ago that the link is below. It's about quick wit. The concept is, while talking to a toxic member, to listen to what they have to say. Then you quickly assess if their words are abusive, hurtful or guilt tripping and the like. If so your reply should be short, to the point and answered in question format. In question format allows you to put the pressure back on them to answer for their actions. eg

"you havent seen us for 2 years"

you- "Yes thats right, why do you want to see us"?

"mum and dad arent getting any younger"

you- "are you talking for them? cant they talk for themselves"?

"well we still want to see you"

"well our track record isnt good, do you have ideas on how we could reconnect without conflict"?

You get the picture.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/wit-the-only-answer-for-torment/td-p/71440

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/anxiety/worry-worry-worry/td-p/87808

You might like to google "queen, witch, hermit, waif" that might give you some insight to the topic.

How are you feeling now?

TonyWK

TrueSeeker

I really appreciate your interest and sharing your stories too so we don't feel so alone in this situation.

I can see that you can write a TV series too. It's not easy to talk about these things to others as I think it's very hard for people from healthy backgrounds to believe it and understand it.

I fully left my own family when I was 28. I still feel guilty and they're still trying to make me feel guilty. When it gets too bad I remind myself of the scars the environment caused and that it's good for everyone to keep distance. They want me around but when I'm around they only criticise me and get upset about the way I do things. They want the imaginary me not the real me. My presence caused tension and it wasn't making anyone happy.

My partner's family problems are paranoia because they don't believe that nice people exist and are worried that everyone is out there to get them. They think that everyone is bad until they prove themselves good while when people are good, they see it as a manipulation.

It's very interesting point that you're bringing up about us. You're so right that we both have some traits that we copied from our families. We both know about them and trying to keep them at healthy levels. We've been together for 24 years and had our up and downs that were usually cause by pure exhaustion dealing with the family issues and tendencies to run away from problems. The hardest thing for us is to fully trust each other as we never could trust or rely on anyone.

My biggest problem is that I still feel like a horrible person and question my sanity sometimes. I still have a need prove to myself and others that I'm good. You probably might've already noticed that. I really need to watch out not to overdo it and that it's completely fine to take care of myself too and it's ok not to be perfect.

I'm not functioning the way I used to or like to. I'm scared that anyone can destroy me and my life any time. I feel like that whatever I do is gonna be taken away from me and other people will steal the rewards. It's really hard to motivate myself at times. I keep reminding myself that it's just in my head and reality can be completely different.

white knight

Thankyou.

Your issues have multiple layers and I'm happy you've replied and mentioned more of them so they can be addressed. Thats why sometimes people reply many times to fill all the voids.

Guilt is an in depth issues that is hard to eliminate if at all. It usually comes from either our own empathy towards others pain or inbred from a parent that demands attention. The link below can help. Of course its from my own guilt that I wrote it.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/guilt-the-tormentor/m-p/321640

Your partners family is classic negative thinking, a topic I embraced many years ago. I'm 69yo but when 26yo for a short time I sold insurance. I was given a task to attend a speech by another salesman so off I went for this 30 minute talk. When I left that place my life changed forever. I'd thrown away my family's negativity to gain a positive never give up approach. Even so, with mental illness like my bipolar depression arrives and no positive attitude can erase that. But when the depression drifts away I can rebound like never before.

The transition from neg to pos is a big one hence a shock in the foirm of the teacher yelling at you and pounding the desk is whats needed to head you in the right direction, so motivation speeches are good for that. The alternative is to keep motivating yourself but remain realistic eg a 125kg man like me cant decide to be a ballerina lol. So realism is part of the process. To get to a point whereby your partner will not tolerate negativity in any form is a hard challenge and when listening to his family's negative thoughts to use the wit previously mentioned to shut it down.

"you wont ever get to save enough for a house deposit"

partner- "how do you know that" (the question!)

"well look at your low wage and land goes up as fast as you can save"

partner "how do you know it wont drop in price? and if I get a 2nd job? is your technique just to give up"?

"well yeh, I'd just enjoy life"?

partner "that might be how you will enjoy life, not me, I dont give up, we all choose our own path... do you like giving up"?....

So

Dont allow other people values to compromise your own
Remain positive as that downloads to all good things like laughter and enjoyment
All others to remain negative, it isnt our responsibility to change them, its theirs
Use their negativity to motivate you.
Never ever give up.

Your last paragraph tells of insecurity. It's ok, many people have that, its annoying and you live in fear. Following my 1st wife and me separating I lived in a small van and only saw my 2 little kids every fortnight. She had destroyed my confidence. So every morning I'd look in the mirror and tell myself "Tony you are a good man, you are a good dad, you are worthy of love". After 3 months I was beginning to shine and believe in myself.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/the-best-praise-you-ll-ever-get/td-p/134999

I can tell through our exchanges that you are simply amazing, you are a good human being and you are not at fault for seeking calm and happiness. You both can drift away and leave these people to swim in their own ocean of sadness. You can become alive.

"your family can be a puddle. You approach and stare. You can jump slowly over that puddle without making a ripple. Any ripple is from their own storm"

Reply anytime

TonyWK

TrueSeeker

Thank you very much for making me feel better about myself

I've read an article "queen, witch, hermit, waif" and we had quite an interesting discussion about it. We agreed that we have all of them in our families. I have realised how our approach to life is very irritating to them. We had a look whether we could or could've done things differently and decided that the only way to survive around them is to become like them and that would mean sacrificing most of ourselves and that's a very high price to ask of anyone.

I find your discussion about how to put an end to the torment with wit very interesting. I did realise as a child
that something needs to be said for it to stop otherwise it keeps going forever and keeps escalating. I didn't really do a great job of it as sometimes I just blew up and that didn't help me feeling any better. It did stop some of the torment but I only became bigger target for them. My partner's strategy was to "shut up and put up" and that made him feel very beaten up, hopeless and confused. Now we settled on polite truth and see how it goes.

I hope that you're doing well and find your balance.

white knight

You're welcome.

The word arrogance is a bad word but in these cases if you view your families as having issues and that you feel some pity for them... that can lead to coping better.

At the same time feel sympathetic to your own situation as its quite a challenge.

Remember, charity begins at home. Others can do their own charity.

TonyWK

Sammy

Setting boundaries with toxic people is the best way

keep smiling and keep running the other way. Great job . Have good people around

TrueSeeker

Thank you both for your support.

There's no point to be around people that don't believe in goodness. I do feel sorry for them as it's not a very happy existence to live in constant fear and negativity. Life is so much more enjoyable around people that appreciate us, believe in us, trust us rather than thinking that every good act is a manipulation. Good people usually don't survive in these environments and maybe it's for better. Good people deserve other good people not accusations and paranoias.