functioning family vs loving family for kids

[james1]

hello,

I am not entirely sure where to post this, but i thought i'd put it here as my own lens is coloured (aha! i made a pun!) by my chinese experience. i'd like to hear what people think.

none of the below is academically researched, just bits and pieces of what i've picked up in news and uni, so please feel free to dispute what i say 🙂

the divorce rate has increased over the decades, in large part due to western values shifting away from traditional family values towards a focus on individual happiness. one difficulty which I experienced, and which many others have experienced, is that divorce is really really difficult for kids. even separation is difficult for kids.

in my own chinese family, i think there is more of a focus on a functioning family rather than a loving family. if the family unit works, the people are expected to continue it. I am not entirely sure why, but I guess it is more practical. At least the child and family unit has certainty about the future and is stable.

so i guess i'm really just putting it out there - are we doing the right thing by choosing love over what 'works'? in many cultures, people are told who to marry and are actually happier in their relationship later on. especially when you consider the effect of divorce on children, are we creating a breeding ground for mental illness by following our hearts and not our minds?

I know we can do both, but all the rhetoric is to "go with your gut", "do what your heart says".

[Donte]

Hello James,

Lovely reflection on the conversation so far.

I'd like to comment on the 'work/family' comparison. - Work is a structured environment with defined roles, rights and responsibilities. You turn up, you perform, you get paid. We don't need to like our colleagues or associate with them or spend time with them outside of work. We can choose to quit anytime. We also get paid. And it's not 24/7; neither there is an ongoing commitment for the rest of our lives. At work we are there to perform, not to make friends or develop relationships (even though it can happen).

I don't think the comparison between work/family is valid in my view. Simply because, you cannot change your family or quit and go apply for another (even after divorce, you are a parent for ever); no one pays you to be a family, and you most certainly need to love each other. - Love makes a family. Your children is something you create and they grow up all their lives knowing nothing else but whatever you show them. They can't choose to get another family or apply for a promotion or change roles etc. Neither can you - as a parent.

Why would anyone in their right mind voluntarily sacrifice their lives, their ambitions, their personal space, dreams, aspirations, careers etc to raise a family unless there is love involved? That's unfathomable. I know that it could happen but I can't understand why. Maybe I'm too western in my thinking.

[Guest_1584]

Yeah , agree with you james.

Sadly , western society, media,chit chat all over the net, seems to do everything it can to destroy marriage and family now. And here even our government literally preach how just effg great it is to get mum and dad out to work and the kids in child care. For a start , the most important foundation of a childs life that will make or break them and last them forever , is destroyed right there, By our own government, and they try to sell it off as all so fanfkgtastic, On that level l dunno what's happening in the rest of the world but here they think 700k houses and building it into one of the most expensive and highest cost of living in the world forcing mum and day out to work and all of that stress alone , is all just great. Then they come on and preach about family.

But then there's media and the garbage and the me me me being bore3d into everyone all over the world , internet , media .

l don't think there's much more they could do to break family and marriages up actually.

And the kids yeah , it's just the most heartbreaking part of it all.

l decided when we broke up the one big thing l could at least control , is to let my daughter know that she is loved very very much by us both and how special she is and that none of our mess was her fault.

And to this day , 5yrs later , l still tell her l love her nearly every day and her me, even if just in text. And it's one thing you can do too , unconditionally no if's or buts , just make damn sure your children know how loved they are and how important they are , no matter what else is going on.

[Hayfa]

Hi
What a great and interesting discussion this is turning out to be!
James, I agree with the definition of what constitutes a functioning family, I also think the comparison about work/family is a valid one since if we put aside for the moment Donte's view, the workplace is still a functioning system, the rules, regulations and roles are what defines the good functioning and flow of the system. Families are a system also and if there are reasonable rules and respect then it could be a good functioning family, what makes things work or problematic depends on the behaviour of the individuals within the system.

Donte you say 'why would anyone in their right mind voluntarily sacrifice their lives, their ambitions, their personal space, dreams, aspirations, careers etc to raise a family unless there is love involved?
You can't possibly generalise this, no one knows why people make the choices they do, some people probably trust the choice of their parents like the many Indian and other Eastern couples that are happy to marry by arranged marriages. Research shows that these marriages are less likely to end in divorce, some couples may not be in love when they marry but that is not to say that they don't fall in love after they marry and go on to raise children.
Let's not forget about some of the cultural and traditional marriages such as the polygamous marriages in the Islamic religion. For those who don't know much about it, they may think this is problematic and offensive to the wives but, actually they all function together respectfully and normally, all kids are raised equally.

James back to your question of 'do parents and children have different ideas about what constitutes family post divorce? I think again this is different for all members within their families, in my cultural group couples who divorce are not supposed to lay eyes on each other ever again, this is slowly beginning to get phased out because there are events and situations that have to normally function for the sake of children and other family members.

There are so many different, interesting and equally valid perspectives. Keep this conversation going.

Hayfa

[Donte]

Hello Randomx,

Your last statement is encapsulating the essence of the matter. The most important thing of all:

’just make damn sure your children know how loved they are and how important they are , no matter what else is going on.’

Just beautiful. I have lived this principle with my daughter (who’s being in childcare since the age of 6 months as we needed to pay off the mortgage), and then before school care 7am each morning and after-school care till 6pm each night. She was always the first kid to be dropped off and the last one to get picked up at the end of the day as we worked 2hrs away from home/school. - no relatives or extended family in Australia apart from my brother who can’t stand children and never got involved in her life).

I am thankful for the amazing childcare and supports in this country as there is no way we could have raised her without these systems in place.

As for my divorce and breakdown of our relationship with my ex, the media didn’t make us do it, but I understand your point.

It’s good that you are there for your daughter. Most important thing no matter what the circumstances. Our children didn't ask to be born. We bring them into this mess so we have a duty to protect, love, provide and care and help them become independent people who can move out into the world to create their own dreams and realities.

Beautiful hsving you here. X

[Donte]

Hello Hayfa,

Indeed. So much diversity in the world. One can never comprehend or agree or care to accept all of it as it may not be relevant to their reality.

In my 20s I wanted to change the wood.

In my 30s I tried to change myself.

In my 40s I struggled to change the tv channels on the remote.

People change. So do priorities, interests etc. Sonetimes we go with flow other times we create it.

As there’s no right or wrong - only consequences- and as we all create our own meaning and purpose in life, what once was relevant may not be now.

Each day is important. Each breath. And in the end nothing matters anyway. Cultures and religions come and go just like the people who subscribe to them. X

[Donte]

Last night I happened to looked out of my window into the windy night and saw the trees moving violently and the wind blowing mercilessly. The weather was wildly stormy down here on the coast.

And then, suddenly, a beautiful white bird, like a dove or a cockatoo nesting on the top branches of the eucalyptus tree so peacefully, so beautifully blending in the landscape without being troubled by the extremity of the elements.

Wanted to take a picture of it but the wind blew it away so rapidly, and it started flying higher and higher and higher into the night sky...then I realized it was a plastic bag.

Often, no matter how beautiful things may seem, what we think we see is not what’s really happening. X