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functioning family vs loving family for kids
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hello,
I am not entirely sure where to post this, but i thought i'd put it here as my own lens is coloured (aha! i made a pun!) by my chinese experience. i'd like to hear what people think.
none of the below is academically researched, just bits and pieces of what i've picked up in news and uni, so please feel free to dispute what i say 🙂
the divorce rate has increased over the decades, in large part due to western values shifting away from traditional family values towards a focus on individual happiness. one difficulty which I experienced, and which many others have experienced, is that divorce is really really difficult for kids. even separation is difficult for kids.
in my own chinese family, i think there is more of a focus on a functioning family rather than a loving family. if the family unit works, the people are expected to continue it. I am not entirely sure why, but I guess it is more practical. At least the child and family unit has certainty about the future and is stable.
so i guess i'm really just putting it out there - are we doing the right thing by choosing love over what 'works'? in many cultures, people are told who to marry and are actually happier in their relationship later on. especially when you consider the effect of divorce on children, are we creating a breeding ground for mental illness by following our hearts and not our minds?
I know we can do both, but all the rhetoric is to "go with your gut", "do what your heart says".
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You’re welcome Good Witch,
Your story and experience is as valuable as every other story.
For me, it indicates that no culture has ownership of anything. These are universal experiences and every individual approaches them and reacts or responds to them within the norms of their culture and society they live in.
I enjoyed reading your story. X
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Hello James,
Truly beautiful to see all the responses and perspectives in here and under all those different lenses.
No two people are ever alike. Even in the same community. In the same family!
My late partner was a twin. He was nothing like his sister!
My daughter’s boyfriend is an identical twin also! He’s nothing like his brother even though I have difficulty at times recognizing who’s who!
Migrant communities in Australia have a huge diversity within them and also in comparison with other cultural groups.
Communities in our birth countries too (if born overseas) are very different to the migrant communities here. Eg Greeks in Greece and Greeks in Australia.
Within Australia too, ethnic community groups vary a lot from state to state and often from region to region even within the same State.
Some ethic communities have been here for more than 3 generations. - there’s vast differences among these generations.
So, it is impossible one to represent a whole nation or ethnicity.
We can only speak for ourselves, from our personal experience and perspective. And we are all right. Simply because it is our experience and nobody else’s.
So, from my experience, living with mental health conditions all my life and seeking various therapies and supports, from traditional to alternative etc, I cannot say that people have given me hard time for my depression or my anxiety or panic attacks and mood swings.
I am open about it and I find every second person I talk to they’re on antidepressants as well so it’s nothing uncommon or bizarre.
It’s so good to hear about your personal perspectives and experiences within your context.
Thank you once again for allowing us the opportunity to reflect on this and interact with each other through this stimulating topic.
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Hello everyone and thank you James this thread has been facinating to read so far!
Functional versus loving... To me functional wins handsdown but the love needs to be there too.
My story is confusing but I'll try anyway.
I'm Australian born. One side a large farming family and the other a large adopted family to a loving couple who couldn't have kids.
I grew up raised by a community. Lots of family in one town. A very loving yet typically drama filled family. Chaotic. Lots of freedom.
I married a Polish/Australian man. We constantly adapt and compromise finding unusal differences. The biggest is the structure his family have compared to the chaos of my own.
Structure has become important to me. I realise I lost any structure when my Grandma passed away. She and Grandad were the people in my life with consistency and rules and boundaries. Nearly all of my childhood memories are of my Grandparents. I find this fact telling.
I found this stability in my husband. He is trustworthy and consistent and reliable. I value this above all.
Our kids thrive on routine. But the curious thing is they also thrive on the differences between us both. Hubby can be hard. I am the gentler. He provides stability. I provide the mess and chaos and fun. Between us both our kids seem to get a balance. Not perfect by a long shot but I am happy that they feel secure where I did not.
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Hello Quercus,
Love the way you explain your background. A blend between freedom and permissiveness with structure and boundaries!
Indeed, they’re both equally important for our development. How delightful that you have created this balance in your own family with elements of both. Sounds ideal!
‘We constantly adapt and compromise’ - how beautifully explained! Nothing is static. Language, culture, beliefs, relationships etc - everything constantly evolves as we change and mature and our understanding and relating/engaging is also evolving.
Every day is a new blank canvas and we decide what colors to use. And no matter what, the outcome is marvelous cause it is the process that counts.
Personally, the point of my life is to do whatever I am doing in now-ness between physical birth and physical death. X
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Hi James and all,
James- thought provoking post 🙂
GoodWitch (or GW)- I loved your post!
I have a question: I was wondering would you mind if I quoted parts of your post(s) elsewhere on the forum?
It’s just that I feel some of your views align with mine and I think it could help enhance what I’m trying to express. Thanks GW!
Pepper xoxo
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Thanks Hayfa! I always like to check that I haven't overstepped because sometimes my brain fires with all these thoughts and they just have to pop out in my enthusiasm for discussion. I love talking to people and sharing experiences, but the downside is sometimes I might come off as strident or opinionated...or so I've been told. I always like to check I'm not taking over!
Donte, thanks for sharing your story I'm so glad you found your own identity. Although I'm not gay and haven't had that level of prejudice to deal with, I identify so much with what you said about doing what other people told you to do instead of what was authentic for you. I know the message I received from my mum, various aunties, grandmas etc is that my life would be pointless and empty without a man & some children & I look at that now as almost like a kind of brainwashing. I stood no chance of having the confidence to say no I'll be fine thanks, I had too many self-esteem issues to deal with as it was. I mean I adore my kids & I don't regret having them, but I also feel like it was something I did because it was expected, not because it was a conscious choice. I got engaged, married...next step kids. I never question it. It's weird waking up one day and feeling like you've lived your life on autopilot & you've landed somewhere you never really decided to go, which is sort of how I feel now.
Pepper, are you asking to quote me? I'm checking because I don't think I've ever been asked that before lol. I admit I'm a little chuffed if so, and I'm stoked you've found something in my words that aligns with your own thoughts. Frankly when I say some of this stuff to people they stare at me like I've sprung an extra head all of a sudden, so it's nice to think you get what I'm saying.
Assuming there is no rule against it I don't mind at all. Maybe check with a moderator though..?
Happy to meet a kindred spirit xo
GW
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Hi James and all,
GoodWitch: you are 100% correct 🙂 I am asking to quote you. Thank you so much!
I think it should be okay as I’ve quoted other forum members in the past. But I will typically ask them beforehand as a general courtesy.
What I do is I’ll then quote my fellow forum member and attribute his/her name to it 🙂 I think quoting is more of an issue with copyrighted material like published books, songs, etc...
I related to much of your post. I decided since my mid teens that I didn’t want to have my own children. I have faced (and still face) a lot of criticism and disapproval from my extended family for it (but that’s a whole other story that I’m not sure is directly relevant here)...
You know what just occurred to me? The pressure for women (and men) to have children/procreate is a topic that is rarely discussed...hmmm...
Anyway, one of my greatest goals in life is to define my own narrative. It seems to me that many people are often so keen to try to define other people’s narrative, even if it’s with good intentions, in a very limiting and narrow fashion...
Sighs, I’ve said my piece. Sorry, I don’t want to derail the conversation too much...
So I’ll just highlight James’ original question for people to answer:
so i guess i'm really just putting it out there - are we doing the right thing by choosing love over what 'works'? in many cultures, people are told who to marry and are actually happier in their relationship later on. especially when you consider the effect of divorce on children, are we creating a breeding ground for mental illness by following our hearts and not our minds?
Thanks everyone 🙂
Pepper xoxo
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Thanks Pepper. My sister is childless by choice & it's only now when she's in her 40s my mother seems to have given up hoping she'll change her mind! (probably because she's had her tubes tied) So I see what you're saying. I was too busy trying not to be a disappointment to my parents that I never thought about defining my own narrative, so good on you for working that out and sticking to your guns.
But I'll also try not to derail this discussion! maybe you need to start a new thread about 'childless by choice' and see what happens 🙂
I guess I was looking at James' initial question (to get back to that) and deconstructing it a little. Like for instance, who gets to decided what a family that 'works' looks like? What does that mean? I guess the assumption is, that if the kids grow up to be gainfully employed non-criminals who pay tax and also have families that look like the one they came from, the family structure has 'worked'. But that assumes everyone's goal is the same, to be like their parents and grandparents before them etc. That measure comes awry if one of the children is gay and can't replicate the family dynamic. Or if someone doesn't want to, as you don't Pepper, does that then mean there must have been a dysfunction in the family? Not to my mind. I guess I'm trying to say I think the standards for what is considered family/life success are too narrowly defined. For me a functioning family will love and support all family members to be the best version of themselves, even if that means childless, gay, straight, transgender, opinionated, a mechanic when they have the brains to be a doctor, or whatever.
But maybe that is a very individualistic way of looking at things! I just know some, or maybe a lot, of people don't fit the mould so maybe we ought to be looking at the mould, and not blaming the people for not fitting.
GW
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Hi GW (and a wave to James and all),
Just a quick one from me. I’m absolutely loving your posts on this thread 🙂
I really appreciated your insights in your latest post and found myself nodding...
In particular, I liked your point about expanding the concept of family as being something that doesnt have to (necessarily) be mum, dad and kids. It can be of course but it doesn’t have to be in order for a family to be “functioning.”
In your words:
For me a functioning family will love and support all family members to be the best version of themselves, even if that means childless, gay, straight, transgender, opinionated, a mechanic when they have the brains to be a doctor, or whatever.
Beautifully articulated 🙂
Pepper xoxo
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