Is depression a natural reaction to an insane world?

[Unbeliever]

This is a thought I have been pondering for a while.

The default to view depression as "something wrong", or a "brain chemical imbalance" or as "a disease" or something that "needs to be fixed" or requires "medication" or "therapy" appears to be the most common response of practically everyone. 

From doctors, to psychiatrists, to therapists, to the general population, to the depressed individuals themselves... the universal belief appears to be that "the person needs to get help".

But what if... the living in depressed state is correct? What if it isn't an "imbalance" or isn't something "wrong"? What if being depressed is the only natural state to be in for an intelligent, empathetic, compassionate, informed, thinking individual to exist in the current state of our world?

What if to NOT be depressed about is the true indication of mental sickness?

I'm not saying that being depressed is fun in any way... most people on this forum would be well aware that it sucks. But that is not what I'm saying. 

What I mean is... could existing in a state of depression be completely natural for someone living in a place where so many things are obviously terrible... both on a personal level and in the world as a whole?

My reasons for this perspective are numerous. Far too many to write in only 2500 words. But basically...

The real world is an extremely depressing place for any person that cares at all about anything outside of themselves.

Eg. If you care about animals... the reality is many beautiful species are already lost forever, many others are so close to the verge of extinction that even if everyone worldwide decided to do everything they could to save them... they would still be lost. At home there are people that still buy people animals as christmas gifts, refuse to desex their pets, the massive amount of pets put down in pounds annually. There is backyard animal cruelty, the dog racing industry using live bait, shooting race horses with legs, women's hormonal treatments for menapause, the meat industry, birds choking on our plastic half a world away, overfishing. The list goes on and on.

It is reality and it is depressing. Care about animals and feeling "depressed" about it IS correct. And that is one tiny subject in a plethora of subjects.

3 billion people in starving poverty, the water wars, religious fanatics, corrupt governments, womens rights violations, slavery, wars, child rape, etc etc

It's the people that are not depressed that worry me.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi all here,

I appreciate the diverse opinions here. It’s always a pleasure to read along 🙂 Thanks all! I hope it’s okay for me to offer my thoughts...

I personally feel there is another option besides trying to strike a balance between “positive” and “negative” stories. In my opinion, I believe that feelings elicited from distressing news stories/ information can actually be positively channeled into bringing about the change that a person wishes to see...

Yes, I appreciate (and agree) that individual circumstances vary, which can affect our capacity to contribute. That, I do understand...

But speaking very broadly, I feel one way to offset feelings of despair or hopelessness is to take action...again, I just want to be clear that my response is not directed at anyone in particular, I am speaking in very general terms. Thank you for understanding 🙂

If it’s asylum seeker rights that moves you most, perhaps look at ways that you can contribute. Do you have a background in law? Could you volunteer at an organisation?

If you’re really worried about the environment then maybe look at ways you can help out in terms of re-thinking your own consumption behaviours, joining community based programs, educating others and encouraging action...

Etcetera, etcetera...

I suppose my point is taking action, amongst many things, can be an anecdote of sorts to feelings of despair. I appreciate that others may feel differently. But I personally believe taking action has the potential to be a much more constructive (and empowering) response than burying one’s head in the sand when facing large scale problems, or at least in my opinion.

Perhaps that is an option that I feel more of us might like to consider...I hope it’s okay for me to suggest this idea gently...

While no one can possibly do everything, I believe we can each each do something. What that “something” is might mean different things to different people, but it’s that “something”, however small, that I try to hold onto...

I just wanted to share some of my thoughts....thanks for reading 🙂

Thanks again,

Pepper

[Unbeliever]

blondguy,

I had no idea we joined BB at about the same time. 8145 posts vs my 177?... I've either been extremely unengaging or you are impressively devoted. 🙂

I have mentioned before... there are certain subjects (not only depression related) which I always wondered how almost everyone just universally accepted a singular perspective on. Almost any topic you can think of there are advocates on extreme opposite sides with alternative variable interpretations inbetween. However, currently "depression" isn't one of them (except for the "it exists" and "it doesn't exist" debate from sufferers vs non-sufferers of course).

Not only is this unusual in itself, but it is a relatively recent phenomenon. While depression has been debated, constantly changed and challenged by some of the greatest minds in our history for around 2500 years... only since the 1950's has a singular interpretation been accepted as "the truth" by the majority of the mental health community and the population in general.

While a singular perspective does have some advantages, it also has some distinct disadvantages. Many of which I consider to be not only counterproductive to helping suffering people, but also quite dangerous in numerous ways... especially if the goal is to progress forward and evolve towards more effective methodology and treatment.

There are many individual experts within mental health who are completely opposed to both the current standardised interpretation of depression and the current methodology of treating it... but their views and verified studies are largely ignored and go completely unpublished in the public view. Which I find very suspicious.

I think it's an unlikely coincidence that since the 1950's depression has becomes a massively profitable industry worth billions of dollars worldwide (dependent on stock markets, pleasing stockholders etc) and that the "depression POV" has been virtually unchanged for the first time in human history for this length of time. When I think about this "alarm bells" start ringing in my head.

I respect JessF's opinions even if I don't agree with many of them. I would be extremely hypocritical creating a thread stating that a "singular POV" is both detrimental and dangerous while denying her the right to voice her own perspective. That's not in my nature.

But challenging accepted norms is also in my nature and I rarely have seen an exception of anything accepted as an "absolute truth" not significantly impeding progress.

[Unbeliever]

Peppermintbach,

What can I say? I agree with pretty much everything that you said.

For me, my "lasting sadness" directly stems from the things in the world I not only believe but FEEL needs immediate action and any further delay is unacceptable.

I'm also intelligent enough to understand that to actually change these things requires a significant % of the world's population to also take action as well or nothing will happen in the time we have left for it to make a difference.

I have made significant sacrifices my entire life. Chosen the "hard road" when I believed it was necessary. Spent my life not contributing to the certain things, while supporting others through sheer discipline. And honestly? It sucks. I've alienated most people I've met. Many think I'm weird or pointlessly obsessed. Even my few best friends and family... don't understand because of the sheer extremes I've taken it to.

But I've never really had a choice. I can't "not" do these things. Even though I've lost countless moments of happiness and opportunities as a consequence. To do anything else would have meant that I was contributing to the things that upset me the most... and that is something I couldn't live with.

It wouldn't bother me as much if I felt we had more time to procrastinate. To slowly convince people that these things were necessary and morally imperitive. But every single time I hear a species has gone extinct it feels like a collossal failure of our species to act in time. I also would feel differently if as a species we were simply incapable of fixing anything. That also would be acceptable. But I know, that if we wanted to literally move a mountain "30 feet to the left"... we actually COULD do it. "Incapability" is not the issue.

In the end it feels like it is just me against the rest of the world, screaming into the darkness and trying to alter the current of the ocean with just my hands. My efforts and sacrifices have changed absolutely nothing and are effectively useless without the necessary minimum human population also being willing to make sacrifices. Communites and groups are simply not enough. Time is not just against us... the alarm went off ages ago.

I'm not unlovable. I haven't been abused. It's not genetic. I'm not afraid. And purposely taking drugs to became numb and stop caring about these things anymore I believe would not only be morally contemptable... but personally repugnant.

So why am I depressed? For me, the answer seems obvious.

[BluBelle]

I agree that the scale has changed, Unbeliever. I once heard that there are more people currently on the planet than all those who have ever lived on it before combined, which I don't think is true but I understand the concept. If I filled a glass with bacteria that divides in two and the rate of cell division to completely fill the glass is one minute, the point at which the glass is only half full is 59 seconds.

However, if you looked at the rate of suffering caused by lack of basic needs as a percentage of the population over time, I'd argue that it's lower today than it ever has been. Of course, due to the sheer population size it's likely there are still an equal or higher number of individuals suffering now than when times were really bad. A lot of the suffering is a cumulative effect of people's terrible actions over many generations - particularly with environmental damage. We're paying now for what people did long before we were born.

I would challenge the assertion that we all let this pass us by while chugging down lattes. We no longer have the blessing of ignorance, thanks to the rise in that same information technology. Sure, there are those who choose wilful ignorance and denial - but there are plenty more who take action. People caused this, but people are the ones who can fix this. In my circles, I see that force for change taking place every day in both small and large actions. I don't eat meat, I rarely drive, I use my vote responsibly, I write letters and join protests and donate to charities. I do what I can in my small sphere of influence to reduce the consequences of bad behaviour by others. I frequently feel hopelessness, but I haven't given up hope entirely.

[blondguy]

Hi UB

Thankyou for your understanding and kind post 🙂 You have been a part of the Beyond Blue family and whether its 50 or 5000 posts you have been here for a long time and have posted whats on your mind. I joined the forums because I was stuck and in a dark place in 2016 after being made redundant.....and after spending time in the Family Court just trying to get fortnightly contact visits with my daughter.....I was a mess UB

One of my missions in life has been paying attention to the Japanese and their bizarre desire to hunt and kill whales (for scientific purposes only as they kept mentioning) Yep...no worries....lol

Just my humble opinion if thats okay UB. I have found our Federal Government impotent when it comes to policing the Japanese and their hunger for whale meat. I know Japanese whaling has decreased yet am unsure if it has been outlawed yet

I hope your weekend is being good to you UB

Paul

[Jijifan]

I can only speak for my own experiences.

I've found that depression is a natural state of the body, yes. A state of critically dangerous imbalance. A state brought on by our unhealthy lives, distanced from our natural way of being, in human-made society. Ironically, it is society who then stigmatises us for being in a state of depression, not understanding why we are depressed.

While we are depressed, we see the world with pristine clarity, yes, but clarity doesn't always mean the full picture, and depression tends to cloud those areas that would normally give us (unreasonable) hope, and help us find solutions to our predicament. Because our body is in imbalance, certain natural processes in our head/brain are also out of balance, and this results in our mind working with limited resources. The thing to do is to not rely on your thoughts so much, but to give your mind a rest from triggers and your body a healthy environment and life to recover, surrounded by healthy people, being mindful and listening to your body's needs.

This is also what makes recovery from depression so difficult in this day and age: most people are toxic. The egotistical culture we've bred is toxic. The mental/spiritual distance we've built from other animals and nature is toxic.

If you take time, as I have, to observe the wild animals' lives around you, you'll notice that they are not affected by people's actions to much but that they seem to care about keeping in spiritual balance with their surroundings, with nature around them. This bond is a healing bond, and it heals all damage caused by abrupt human actions. In nature, death is not seen as something terrible, but a part of life. What's terrible is the spiritual imbalance that people bring, and not to nature, but to themselves and the living world that surrounds them. That imbalance, our own actions, are making us sick.

[IPlay]

Super popular thread this one! Well done striking a chord with a lot of people. I have had the same thoughts. It's a hardcore logical theory that affirms a depressed persons thoughts and beliefs without attributing the default to the individual. Very appealing. It's what we're all looking for!

Recently I have opened myself up to the *possibility* of this thinking simply being a "symptom" of depression, but I'm still skeptical. If I'm not mistaken there is a positive correlation between depression and intelligence. I know I was happier when I was younger and before I got myself an education. I think with intelligence come more responsibility to fix the worlds problems because you have the mental capacity to do so. But this sense of responsibility is overwhelming when you are able to view all of the worlds problems so extensively and without a rose coloured filter. It's too much for one brain to handle! By the time you are contemplating whether you "have" depression or not you are already so inundated with the worlds problems that you can't make sense of it, you can't even find the source of your sadness anymore and you think "it must be me".

I honestly think depressed people represent a huge potential for change in the world, we just need to support, encourage and inspire each other to make the changes we all know need to be made. Perhaps the greatest thing this theory can do is create momentum for change. Instead of accepting a depression diagnosis and internalising it, make or join a group for change on a topic you see fit. The apathetic can't change anything, they never will! Empaths unite!

I'm more excited by the prospect of having so many caring people in one place than I am accepting my own diagnosis that's for sure. I often say "I'd rather be depressed than be ignorant".

[IPlay]

Personally I blame Star-trek for giving us a better vision of the human future. If we didn't imagine it could be better than it is now then we'd be happier as we are 😛 😛

[Unbeliever]

BluBelle,

Hehe... yes, despite rampant breeding practices, the "more people alive now than dead altogether in human history" remains a popular myth. The dead still outnumber us easily (at this point). Oh, and I liked the "bacteria/glass" thing you wrote. Many people find that concept difficult to grasp, but not you. Good one.

If I had to describe the "feeling" I hate the most that is derived from a completely external source (nothing that is happening directly to me)... it would be "suffering". Or more specifically the range of feelings I experience from WITNESSING suffering. It simultaneously makes my blood boil, want to cry, want to scream out and to collapse in grief. I truly loath it.

And I did mean in sheer numbers rather than historic percentages... although I still think you would be unpleasantly surprised to see how similar they are to modern percentages anyway...

3 billion people out of 7.7 billion people living in poverty (lack of access to basic needs) is about 39%. So (if the density was spaced out equally) that would be... each and every time you walked past 100 people in the street, 39 out them wouldn't have enough to live a basic life. Pretty woeful for a so-called "advanced modern society" if you ask me.

If this truly is "the best" our species has achieved human population percentage wise to date (debatable)... I remain unimpressed.

You mentioned something that is very similar to something else I have been thinking about for some time. That the last 3 or so previous generations spent our lifetime planetary collateral before we were even born. That our entire lives were already placed in a resource and lifestyle debt from the first day we were born, because recent past generations had already chose to spend ours in advance. I proposed this theory to my "social sciences" teacher in highschool once... I remember that he took quite an offence to the concept hehe.

I still stand by my "latte" comment. Most people will do anything to distract themselves from anything serious that is happening outside of their "private bubble" most of the time. Purposeful escapism for modern generations appears to be just a fact of life for the majority from what I've seen.

Unlike you however, I rarely if ever feel hopeless... I mainly feel frustrated and angry. From what I can see, every problem in the world appears "actionable" (even in the cases where time has already run out to completely prevent them).

[Unbeliever]

IPlay,

I've been wondering for some time whether depressed people are the ONLY potential for change in this world...

We certainly have the numbers and there is no doubt that the "healthy, happy and satisfied" people in charge have consistantly failed.

But I've never heard of a large group of people convinced they are sick and need regular mind altering medication ever successfully changing anything.

... just thinking out loud as usual.