Is depression a natural reaction to an insane world?

[Unbeliever]

This is a thought I have been pondering for a while.

The default to view depression as "something wrong", or a "brain chemical imbalance" or as "a disease" or something that "needs to be fixed" or requires "medication" or "therapy" appears to be the most common response of practically everyone. 

From doctors, to psychiatrists, to therapists, to the general population, to the depressed individuals themselves... the universal belief appears to be that "the person needs to get help".

But what if... the living in depressed state is correct? What if it isn't an "imbalance" or isn't something "wrong"? What if being depressed is the only natural state to be in for an intelligent, empathetic, compassionate, informed, thinking individual to exist in the current state of our world?

What if to NOT be depressed about is the true indication of mental sickness?

I'm not saying that being depressed is fun in any way... most people on this forum would be well aware that it sucks. But that is not what I'm saying. 

What I mean is... could existing in a state of depression be completely natural for someone living in a place where so many things are obviously terrible... both on a personal level and in the world as a whole?

My reasons for this perspective are numerous. Far too many to write in only 2500 words. But basically...

The real world is an extremely depressing place for any person that cares at all about anything outside of themselves.

Eg. If you care about animals... the reality is many beautiful species are already lost forever, many others are so close to the verge of extinction that even if everyone worldwide decided to do everything they could to save them... they would still be lost. At home there are people that still buy people animals as christmas gifts, refuse to desex their pets, the massive amount of pets put down in pounds annually. There is backyard animal cruelty, the dog racing industry using live bait, shooting race horses with legs, women's hormonal treatments for menapause, the meat industry, birds choking on our plastic half a world away, overfishing. The list goes on and on.

It is reality and it is depressing. Care about animals and feeling "depressed" about it IS correct. And that is one tiny subject in a plethora of subjects.

3 billion people in starving poverty, the water wars, religious fanatics, corrupt governments, womens rights violations, slavery, wars, child rape, etc etc

It's the people that are not depressed that worry me.

[Unbeliever]

Peppermintbach,

I think that near the top of my list would be something like there being some kind of actual "goal" of the human race. What as a species we are working towards? What exactly is the plan? What are we humans actually trying to achieve as a whole? What exactly is the next step towards the current goal of our species?

Something like that would be awesome.

The "entire species steamrolling ahead at fullspeed with maximum effort trampling each other and everything else on the planet underfoot to achieve absolutely no purpose in particular" stategy just really isn't working for me. It isn't motivational. It isn't inspiring. It doesn't make me want to contribute to it in any way. I'm not sure how anyone could think that it is possibly supposed to.

"Progress for the sake of progress" just does not carry a "feeling of achievement". There can be no feelings of any kind of success. No way to pat the human race on the back for a "job well done". Just like how "survival only for the sake of survival" just does not inherently carry with it a "feeling of being alive".

It's just aimless and directionless persistence without reason if there isn't any kind of actual goal.

*(Which of course pretty much describes how I have felt since before I was even a teenager).

The previous generation to mine had... "we will put a person on the moon, not because it is easy but because it is hard". Which they achieved. The generation before had "we must stop the evil Nazi colossus moving across Europe" which they achieved. These must of given those generations a sense of purpose, they had a goal to achieve and work towards, a feeling of satisfaction once that goal was achieved... and something worth celebrating together after they were done.

But for anyone born in the last 50 years we have had... species extinction and healthy planetary sites loss, the "climate change is happening, no isn't, yes it is" endless debate, wars against faceless "enemies" that never end or were never "won", the "me" movement, and the loss of privacy rights while everyone was to too busy arguing with each over too many other things to notice, and some impressive portable data devices and movie CGI.... that is pretty much it.

This would be in my "top 3" of things to "change".

A purpose, a goal, a direction, a feeling of being part of or contributing to something greater and worthwhile. Rather than just being a cog in the machine of the specieswide directionless "purpose" of nothing at all.

[Unbeliever]

quirkywords,

I have been concerned for some time about how many things people so easily put into the box of "accepting the things you cannot change".

Not long ago there was worldwide "accepted" slavery of those considered as "lesser humans". It was accepted by countries worldwide, considered to be an essential and irreplaceable part of their economies. Regarded by multiple religions as being a practise "condoned by god".

Those slaves must have felt it was "impossible to change" back then. So widespread and common those attitudes of slavery. The same of women being treated as second class citizens in our history. No right to own property, to get a divorce, to vote, to have a say over their own bodies. Just family commodities to be bartered as property of the most promising "bidder".They were convinced by the world around them that "this is just the way it is... and to just accept it".

Imagine if these people continued to believe that they had no other choice but to "accept the things that they cannot change". Imagine how different the world would be now if they never questioned, never fought, just accepted.

Just like back in those days we now are told to "not question" to not "behave or to think in any way contary to the common beliefs of today". To accept the "status quo" as it is... and if for any reason we can't do that, to "accept that we are helpless to change it".

It is the same lie all those people were told for all those centuries that now we consider as "primitive and outdated thinking" and many of those people who refused to just "accept it" are now considered as revolutionaries and heroes. Movies are made about them.

How many of those people were told that they were "sick"? That there was something wrong with them for being unhappy with the situations they found themselves in and unwilling to just accept? They were institutionalised, made examples of "what not to be", medicated up to their eyeballs, lobotomised, imprisoned and murdered. They were told that the world was not wrong, but it was them that were sick.

Sound familiar at all?

The best way to prevent change is to make people wanting change, driven to make things different because it becomes unacceptable to them... to doubt themselves, to believe that the way they feel is sickness and if that fails then to convince them that they are helpless to change anything anyway.

It is an effective strategy that has been successfully implimented against entire populations for thousands of years.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever & all,

As always, it’s good to hear from you. Thank you so much for sharing 🙂

I feel that I, to some extent, agree with you about how making progress for the sake of making progress can feel very demeaning.

As for your wish for there to be a global human goal(s), I think it’s a beautiful wish. At the moment, I don’t think we’re necessarily more “divided” than before in global terms, despite what the media might suggest.

But I think maybe it’s just that different groups of people around the world sometimes have conflicting self interests & priorities, which means working towards any global goal is very challenging. Not impossible of course, but I think it’s just difficult when you throw in people’s personal self-interests, money, power & politics.

Perhaps, I would also suggest that a current issue is in order for certain changes to happen, it requires change at the personal level. For example, I don’t think people had to do much differently in their daily lives for the moon landing to happen. I think most people could carry on as they always did in their daily lives, & then join in at the party at the end.

But things like addressing climate change is different, as it requires some change at the personal level...& I think that’s sometimes harder for (some) people to want to engage in...

Sorry I’m not trying to give people “excuses” & I’m not trying to be critical. It’s just that when these topics come up, I try to explore multiple perspectives to gain a richer understanding e.g. I try to think about those want change happen, as well as the possible motivations behind resistance/complacency.

That aside...here’s the thing, I don’t think you have to resign to being a “cog” if it’s that (understandably) distressing. If you want more direction, I would suggest you pave the way...

I understand perhaps you crave a global community where everyone is working towards a high purpose goal, & that’s a great dream...so maybe just help make it happen...

I’m serious...you clearly already have some ideas & a vision. I know you’re already doing things in your personal life to do your part, so maybe your next goal could be getting more people on board?

I know it would be stressful & (incredibly) difficult, but I think it might be something worthwhile & meaningful for you to work towards;)

Those are just my thoughts. I’m not really sure if I’ve said anything worthwhile or constructive, but I’ve laid them out for you...

Thanks for reading 🙂

[Birdy77]

Dear Unbeliever,

Future generations (how many of them will there be?) will look back on this (our) period in history and say/think "i can't believe they used to ... " (fill in the blank with pretty much anything our society treats as normal). It is shameful.

Keep being (and being vocal about) the change you wish to see in the world.

Keep changing the things you can't accept.

Pass it on.

🌻birdy

[ElDiablo]

Interesting thoughts that seem like have been taken right out of my head.

Here's the thing that stumps me. Why should one carry on if one doesn't really amount to anything? I know people would say lower your expectations or the opposite with some cliche etc. I'm sure health institutions aged care/mental are there or a part of the economy, but if most people were given the choice, they might not exist.

What if you don't believe in anything at all anymore like your brain has become that blackhole where it's impossible for any kind of light to make it through.

Everything I see has a cost attached to it. How true is that song it's all about the money! Even dying, KPMG – Economic cost of suicide in Australia. So in essence the Government only care about the economy, taxes; nothing new there.

Our environments make us or break us. And like anything that's once broken might be repaired but there are a buttload of cracks in there.

[Unbeliever]

El Diablo,

"Amount to anything". This statement doesn't really mean anything by itself. Every person on Earth would have a different opinion on what that actually means.

Plus, "Amount to something" for who? You? Your mother? Some kind of deity? Your Country? Humanity itself? Whose opinion of what qualifies or not matters here? This concept is so ridiculously subjective that I struggle to imagine who you should consider as an "authority" over making this judgement on anyone. Which I would argue would also include me or yourself.

"Lowering expectations" is a weird concept to me. I think trying not to make assumptions of what is going to happen until experiencing it is a better method. It has been far more effective for me than simply "expecting nothing" all the time. That just becomes an "expectation" increasing the probability of never receiving any other result. While "not assuming" still leaves open all of the possibilities.

Yes. Industries have been created to be profitable around mental health and every kind of struggle imaginable. But this is not always a bad thing (although admittedly is does have the potential to be). Money moving around in any country for any reason stimulates the local economy. That is kind of how (at least part) of the economy works.

I would guess that it's a very small percentage of the population that would choose "unexistence" if given the choice. I think far more people who are currently suffering would by far prefer to choose to remove the things that cause them suffering and live the rest of their lives without them anymore.

Belief is a hard thing to sustain. But darkness literally can't exist without the light... and vice versa. They give each other meaning and purpose. They are intrinsically connected and bound together. And if all you see around you is darkness then it puts you in a perfect position to fully appreciate even the smallest glimmer of light that others all too easily take for granted and forget to appeciate. This can be a gift that many people never get to see.

Yes. Nothing is free in this world. Even if it is not financial, it still comes at a cost. This is also not necessarily a bad thing, it can reveal its true value. Show more clearly what is worth the price of having it in your life.

I quite like cracks, they give things personality and uniqueness. I am always distrustful of things that appear "perfect", because I know they never are. Why should we be any different? and why would we ever want to be?

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever (and a wave to all),

I thought of you today, so I just wanted to visit 🙂

How have you been?

Or perhaps a better question might be do you have any insights or thoughts that you would like to share?

I’m not sure why, but in my mind, I feel as though you might appreciate the following quote. Maybe I’m wrong, but here’s to trying 😉

Those who have a “why” to live can bear with almost any “how”

- Victor Frankl

I looked that up just now to make sure that I had the correct quote and attributed it to the right person.

Kind thoughts to you...

[Unbeliever]

Peppermintbatch,

Having a reason, purpose or focus certainly does help people regardless of the struggles they deal with on a day to day basis. It pulls them through, it keeps them moving forwards, it gives a reason to fight through difficulties day by day because they are working towards an objective. Something they want for their future.

This is far more beneficial than simply "keeping themselves distracted" or simply "constantly doing busywork"... which is merely a postponement as best. This methodology never allows people to deal with what afflicts them and and forces them to literally "never stop" or it all just catches up with them.

Which is also one of the reasons that simply medicating themselves cannot possibly work for many people. It doesn't allow them to deal, it just restricts their mind from working through why they are in pain. Meaning they can never stop taking medication or once again... it all just catches up with them.

The problem of course being... what if a person simply can't find something they want to "work towards"? What if they don't have a goal to focus on achieving except for the "suffering to stop"? This circumstance is where many people find themselves thinking about more extreme permenant measures.

With nowhere to go forwards, distraction only effective as a temporary measure and the only "want" remaining being to stop the pain. Life can feel like nothing more than a burden and something that only has value leaving.

This is how the systems we have in place are failing certain people. It is more than simply giving them hope (or "false hope") it requires giving people a purpose. Letting them find a desire for something beyond the confines of their mental condition. Giving them something in which "tomorrow" offers more than just a pat on the back just for managing to get through it.

I'm not saying that "getting through" is bad thing at all. I just mean that it simply is not enough just by itself.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever and a wave to all,

Well, what can I say? To a large extent, I agree. Treading water is important in its own right and definitely has its place. But I agree with you that long-term, it usually helps to have a sense of purpose or meaning...

Though of course, depending on circumstances, health status, temperament, interests, passions, etc, we all vary in our desire and capacity to search for “why”...and perhaps as you astutely pointed out, there might not always be sufficient resources to help people who are struggling to find their personal “why.”

I’m still figuring out my “why”, and it’s probably something that I’ll revisit time and time again this life...

I don’t know about you, but I often wonder if there’s a place for me in this world. Don’t worry, I’m not asking or expecting you to answer or comment...just thinking out loud...if I find my place, that will be the day 😉

I wanted to say thank you for making time during your day/night to talk to me. I really appreciate it.

Kind thoughts to you...

Pepper

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever (& a wave to all),

I don’t know if you’re still around, but I thought that I would come visit.

If you are reading, I wonder how have you been?

I don’t know about you, but I’m slowly unravelling. But that’s not what I came here to talk about...

I have always enjoyed our conversations. I feel a certain freedom talking to you...

You know, I often find that I erode bits & pieces of myself to try to emotionally attune to someone. I find most people either like talking to me purely on an emotional level, whereas others only seem to appreciate my intellect (or call that side of me whatever you like).

But people very rarely like both aspects of me, even though they are both equally important parts of me...my “intellect” or hard edges (or call it what you like) seems to upset people, so I often tone it down a lot. I’ve found it makes a lot of people uncomfortable...

I’m not sure what I’m trying to say other than I often feel very alone, unheard & misunderstood, despite my big circle of friends...

Anyway, it’s okay, you don’t need to respond to this...thank you for letting me lay down some thoughts here...I wrote to you, as I thought you might understand in some small way.

I’m sending kind thoughts through the stratosphere to you...

Pepper