Following the breadcrumbs to improve mental health

[indigo22]

Hi everyone,

The last few months have been somewhat confusing as I have discovered more about my mental / physical health and how it has all been connected. I had not put the pieces together, I am not sure why, it seems so obvious now.

I have dealt with Dysthymia since about 12 and Major Depression since about 14 but was not diagnosed until my 40s and had no idea that had been the problem all along. I knew I wasn't like everyone else but thought I was just born that way. Back then mental health was not a subject that was openly discussed and the signs mostly went unrecognised and untreated. I had about 10 years of talk therapy with a social worker that helped immensely.

I have had a sensitive digestive system for a good portion of my life, not so much that I sought treatment, just things like indigestion with certain foods, bloating and the like. I suppose I thought everyone had those types of issues.

I have also had nervous system reactions over the past 15 years, like involuntary shaking in certain situations, that I had put down to getting older and being less resilient having been through a lot of difficult challenges.

I have been seeing a psychotherapist who also does somatic work (turns out you were right mmmekitty, I did need some more help). The first session of somatic work, in this case EFT (tapping), brought up a deep and long standing belief that I did not deserve to be helped. The emotions were buried so deep that I was not even aware of them. After that session things went haywire physically for a few days and took some weeks to start to settle.

Being the type of person who needs to have an understanding of what is happening and why, I have been reading many books on the symptoms I have had. That is when I began to join the dots about how interconnected by mental and physical health actually were. It has required a lot of processing on my part, and an acknowledgement of what I have been consciously unaware of, but it has been necessary to finding a way forward. This will be an ongoing journey as new symptoms show up that need to be looked at.

I know now that there is a lot of unreleased trauma in my body that is a contributing factor in not healing mentally or physically and I know now what needs to be done to improve. There is only so much that the medical profession can do, I believe the rest of the responsibility lies with us in digging deeper to find the causes and the answers. In many ways, that in itself becomes empowering.

Take care all.

indigo

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

I wonder too if you may have some after effects from your recent infection? It's hard to know what's going on, isn't it. I have experienced the kind of exhaustion you describe and I guess it has improved through a number of factors. The work with the naturopath was just one aspect, but I have found healing my nervous system (still working on it) is another major factor. Even my naturopath says that underneath everything is the nervous system. So we can treat things with supplements and diet which can be really valuable, but where the nervous system is at is often at the core of why certain imbalances exist in the first place. My naturopath is into healing the vagus nerve, daily chanting etc as well - things that help to calm the nervous system which has a balancing effect on everything else.

I am finding that anything that provides emotional healing, such as connections with kind and good people, also really helps switch on the social engagement part of the nervous system which has a really beneficial effect. I think those sorts of things have helped address at least some aspects of my nervous system crashing into fatigue. Like my system becomes less hypervigilant and more stabilised, thus freeing up energy that was locked down. That locked down hypervigilance takes incredible energy to keep there. Peter Levine often demonstrates that with a slinky toy, how we can be like a tightly coiled spring and so many resources go to keep that spring locked down. When it releases it can initially be quite haywire. I found this happened after some of the initial somatic processing I did with my psychologist. I'd been extremely fatigued and shutdown, and then all of a sudden I had these unbelievable bursts of energy that were short-lived in their intensity, but that was the discharge of the locked down energy. The body then works to recalibrate towards a more balanced energy pattern.

But I know fatigue can still take over and just be so debilitating at times. I don't know if it's nervous system dynamics for you or something else going on. I wondered about whether there is something you can do that lifts you,  like your singing, if you feel able? I just think of that because from the age of 30 I developed a severe bladder pain condition and one of the things that helped most with the pain and debilitation was singing. I joined a singing group actually and that also was so beneficial, just the power of singing with others and the healing that happens through the body. It actually began to change how my body was responding and started to turn things around. It took a huge amount to get to the singing group as I was in such pain, but I could feel the pain begin to transform as I engaged in the singing. It kind of turned the direction of my body around, so to speak. Not an instant cure, or anything like that, but the beginning of a shift that eventually led to greater functionality again.

Anyway, those are just some thoughts. It could well be a nutrient absorbance issue as you suggest. Possibly a combination of knowing what is happening in the microbiome, supplementation and nervous system healing may heal the gut and get you back on track. I have my complete microbiome mapping results with me here (I'm home again now) so if you have any questions or want to know what it covers, I am happy to share. One thing that was low for me was butyrate, the main fuel for gut cells. It is linked with metabolism and can be low after recent antibiotic therapy. So just wondering if that could be a factor for you? Consuming foods high in resistant starch can increase butyrate levels. I take a butyrate supplement as it is significant in the liver condition I have where it is often at low levels. It also has a link with chronic fatigue.

Take care and warm hugs,

ER

[indigo22]

Thank you ER,

All good suggestions that could prove helpful in the long term. I made enquiries about joining a singing group here even though I knew I wasn't quite ready to do it. Then covid hit and I haven't looked into anything since. I will have another look but I don't recall seeing a group that meet regularly around here.

I got the blood drawn yesterday and seeing doc next Thursday for the results. That's interesting about the butyrate being low, was there anything else that particularly stood out?

I do eat a lot of cold potatoes which have resistant starch, whenever I steam vegies, I always do a double lot and eat them cold the next day. In fact, whatever goes in the fridge, be it split pea soup or rice with vegies etc., I never heat it up the next day, just take it out of the fridge about 30mins before I want to eat so it is not extremely cold. Making a big pot of steel cut oats today so I can freeze some for breakfasts.

I suspect too that my periodontitis is not helping at all with my overall health. I really just want to get the ones that are left pulled and be done with it, but dentistry is ridiculously expensive as is denture work, so I am putting aside a little at a time towards it. I can't seem to win at present, I was thinking that green smoothies with slippery elm would help the gut, but the blade in my vitamix has become jammed and needs to be replaced so I can't even do that at the moment. They say that money doesn't solve everything, but it sure goes a long way to improving your stress levels when you have some to spare.

Let me know how you are going as well, are you continuing to improve?

Hugs,

indigo 💜

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I hope you are going okay.

Just wanted to give you an update. Blood test showed I am deficient in both zinc and iron which goes a long way to explain how I have been feeling. He suggested an iron infusion but I said I would rather try doing it naturally first through food and and increasing the iron supplement I am already taking. Will concentrate on foods with zinc and iron so I become accustomed to including them in my daily diet. He will retest in 4 months with daily zinc and iron to see if the levels have normalised.

Also a slight issue with kidneys that I need to read up on so can't tell you much at the moment but it could be linked to slight dehydration which I can understand as I don't drink as much in winter.

I bought some Aloe Vera juice and Slippery Elm Power to help repair whatever may be happening in the gut, hopefully things will start to normalise in the next few weeks. I will probably still do the sleep study as well but there are out of pocket costs that I don't have the money to cover at present so it will have to wait a bit.

I don't know what it is like where you are, but it is very cold here so sending you some warm hugs in case you need them,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

While on the one hand it's not so good to have the deficiencies, on the other hand you at least know a likely contributor to why you have been feeling how you have now. That makes sense to see how you go naturally first and to also just work on that for now but do the sleep study later. Yes, it all adds up and supplements are not cheap either when consumed daily. I take the slippery elm too as one of my supplements. My naturopath was telling me that it is a Native American remedy for gut issues in babies.

Looking at my first microbiome results, I had a significant overgrowth of Citrobacter freundii plus a couple of other  abnormal levels that were much milder in terms of bacteria. I also had high zonulin levels which is commonly associated with intestinal permeability and gluten intolerance. And, as mentioned before, there was the low butyrate. All of the above completely corrected with supplementation except for the butyrate which has improved but is still a bit below what it should be. The intestinal permeability has healed and my gut is much more balanced.

I am sort of ok. The extreme fear surges are less intense now. I've been experiencing more bouts of severe depression. The vision in my left eye has been affected and I only stopped getting constant effects behind my eyes and forehead a couple of days ago, but I now have strange eyes again and visual interference in the left eye with a lot of floaters that weren't there before. I don't think anything was reprocessed as it is supposed to be with EMDR, it was just relentless flooding a retraumatisation. It led the dissociative parts in me to become severely stressed as well and I saw how they each responded under duress. That was sort of helpful in a way to see how parts of me operate under such stress, in terms of seeing their roles in my dissociative system, yet I would far preferred to have never gone through that. I'm still in a kind of shock and trying to re-orient myself.

Thank you so much for the hugs. It has been a bit cold here the last couple of days, like the sort of weather where if you sit still for a bit you need a blanket on you. I hope you are feeling better now that you have some answers about things that are happening. I know it helps so much once you start to have a picture of what is going on.

Take care and sending you warm hugs too 🤗

ER

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I really wish you hadn't had to go through all the after affects of the EMDR, it has really taken a toll on you. On the other side of the coin, you have knowledge now that you might not have had without the experience and are in a position to advise others who may be thinking of trying EMDR with a trauma background similar to your own. It is a very hard lesson though.

I was looking into some supplements prior to getting my results that I thought may be of interest to you. I will add the names so you can look into them.

Products under the name Therapeia made in Australia and vegan. These products can be viewed on the Australian website Organic Turmeric. I also chatted with him on the phone and he had suggested a specialised form of ashwagandha called KSM-66 Ashwagandha and Saffron as helpful for mental health and nervous system. When I went looking, found a product by Ritua called Stress which has those ingredients along with Reishi and Lemon Balm. None are cheap as you would expect but also not over the top expensive so I may try some of these products as finances allow to see if they help.

The kidney issue I mentioned is lowered filtration compared to previous tests I have had. I need to do a follow up test this week (both blood and urine) without fasting like the last test to see what results come from that. It still could just be a lack of hydration which I am trying to rectify. With the iron, there is a note from the lab to suggest that this may be a result of an inflammatory condition which would not surprise me with the way my gut has been. One of the reasons I have been looking at the turmeric supplements is to try to reduce the inflammation in the body. The aloe vera juice and slippery elm seem to be helping but it has only been a couple of days, too early to really tell.

I recently found an organic farmer who delivers here and have been eating their produce for a couple of weeks. My gut is becoming less reactive so my guess is that it is much happier without all the pesticides and herbicides that are used in normal agriculture and the produce tastes better too. I haven't had silverbeet in decades and I'm really enjoying it. It's really not cheap to live and eat clean and healthy, this is giving me incentive to get my vegie garden started when I can find the energy.

I hope your depressive episodes and eye issues settle down soon, you have been through the works with the after effects. You have my empathy and I hope you are able to find balance soon. You are in my thoughts.

Hugs and healing thoughts,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

I was thinking with the kidneys and hydration whether having lots of herbal teas during the day might help, which would help keep you warm as well as hydrate you. Perhaps that may be easier than drinking cold water. I know in the Ayurvedic tradition that sipping hot water is often recommended. I almost always fill a water bottle and take it with me if I go out somewhere such as visiting another town, just so I can drink here and there and keep hydrated, even in the winter months. But being a filtration issue I don't know how much increasing intake would help in your case. I imagine it's worth trying to keep fluids up in any case. You could even fill a thermos with hot water or herbal tea that you can take with you when you go somewhere.

Thank you for letting me know about the supplements. Someone recommended ashwagandha to me a while ago but not that specific type. I will look into it. I know it is sometimes used for perimenopausal and menopausal symptoms and from what I have read is ok to take with hormone medication. I am taking a lot of supplements already so I will look at the overall balance and see how it all fits. I can definitely do with anything that helps with stress and anxiety at the moment.

I understand wanting to buy organic. I did some studies in horticulture 26 years ago now and we did a unit on pesticides in which I learned about the ones used on food. It's pretty disturbing when you actually know the details, though some of the things being used back then have now been banned for use with human food (which says a lot in itself!). At the same time, I'm learning not to stress myself too much about the possibility of ingesting some of the chemicals as I think the stress itself is bad for the body. I also don't have many options in my area for organic fruits and vegetables though there's a few options in a neighbouring town. But, yes, it's more expensive too 🙈 As you say, growing your own can be a wonderful option and quite rewarding to harvest and eat your own fresh produce.

Thank you for the empathy 🙏 I had a strong relapse into intense fear yesterday morning and this morning as well. The person I know who sings traditional healing songs from the Amazon did sing to me recently and has sent me recordings of the songs, and yesterday morning that helped calm my nervous system. It's like a form of co-regulation for parts of myself that need soothing. But a couple of hours later the terror escalated again and then was really bad this morning as well. It's very hard to take and they are essentially intense PTSD-type flashbacks to awful trauma states with intense surges of adrenaline. I have read of many people now on various online platforms describing these effects after EMDR, often lasting months and in some cases years, even after just one session of EMDR like I had. It restructures the brain in certain ways that can go out of control. It's very upsetting but I simply have to practise radical acceptance that this has happened now and I have to keep working towards solutions to heal it.

It has certainly been cold here today. The apparent temperature has dropped below zero several times during the day. I went for a walk in the cold wind which I actually found helpful as it kind of numbs the intense stress feelings in my body. It's sort of like Wim Hof cold therapy-type healing. I find photo editing also helps me as although my body is still activated, focusing on something provides some distraction and I feel the suffering a little less. I hope you are keeping warm where you are and I am glad that your gut is becoming less reactive. That is a good sign.

Take good care and hugs and healing thoughts to you too 💖

ER

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

That was such a good suggestion, I can't drink hot water but I made a pot of strong herbal tea when I got up and just added hot water to my cup so it is warm to drink. I was having herbal tea every evening for quite a while, but as I got more exhausted, I think it went by the wayside.

We are a strange lot, we humans, we trust that what is being done is in out best interest, until we find out years later that we have been slowly poisoned by lead, pesticides, the air we breath and who knows what else. I am waiting for the day that glysophate is banned, it is destroying any hope we have of fertile soil for future generations. I could get on my soap box, but I won't, because I know you have like minded ideas.

How have you been today? It's good that you have the healing songs to use when you need them.

Does the vooo exercise help you at all when you are in the midst of these episodes?

It's hard to believe that with many others having similar effects to yourself, that the feedback has not made the rounds to practising psychs by now. I would have thought there would be a newsletter from the psych associations to warn them of such effects on those with C-PTSD.

I like my doctor but when I talked about leaky gut, there was just the sounds of crickets and him typing his notes into the computer, even though it is now considered a legitimate complaint. Clearly there's not enough communication within the medical systems we have.

I hope you are having a better day today 💐

Hugs,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Hello indigo,

I'm glad you are enjoying the herbal tea. It's certainly something that can be comforting and nurturing too. I'm quite into lemon and ginger tea at the moment. A calming activity for me at the moment is to make a hot beverage and then sit down at my computer and do photo editing.

I agree that we humans are strange. Pesticides came into common use after WWII because of the way chemicals were developed for warfare and then redeployed for agriculture. Not a lot of thought seemed to be given to the risks for a long time. One of my uncles had a job spraying pesticides and he, my dad and their younger brother all were exposed to an organochlorine regularly sprayed in their town in the 50s. That first uncle and the other uncle got leukaemia and my dad got Parkinson's disease, all which are linked to that organochlorine - Heptachlor. It was banned for most uses from the late 80s. The guy who does the garden maintenance in these units here routinely sprays glyphosate which I don't like but can't do much about as it is supported by other residents. He wanted to use another chemical as well that I managed to prevent, especially on the grounds that it can cause cancer of the small bile ducts in the liver and I have a disease that damages those bile ducts specifically. But that chemical, Dicamba, is used routinely on grain crops. It's effective at controlling broadleaf weeds but I always prefer the idea of innovating other methods that are more integrated and not reliant on a single chemical solution.

Yesterday was a rough day where I woke in severe terror. They are horrible flashbacks where I'm being flooded at maximum intensity. The vooo exercise helps a bit. Basically things that were quite effective before provide slight, temporary improvement now at best. But what did help yesterday was getting angry and writing my exact thoughts to my psychologist. I have found the expression of anger the most helpful as it helps my body to feel like maybe it has some protection from the onslaught of flooding. It brings some shift in my nervous system. My psychologist understands the anger and has encouraged me to express it. I have major trust issues at the moment and the experience of having a therapy done to me without informed consent has re-enacted past experiences of having things done to me outside of my control that have caused harm. I'm seeing her on Friday and will be expressing more of how I feel and I'm hoping that if we both have a positive intention towards resolving and healing this it will happen. I do not know at this stage for sure if I can trust her going forward but will sense into that.

A few days ago I read yet another person's account of severe side effects after just one EMDR session, including strong, active s******dality, which is what I have been dealing with. This person has autism and another with autism wrote in with the same issues they are still suffering with 2 years down the track. People with CPTSD, dissociative disorders and neurodivergence are all at risk of severe flooding and traumatisation but the psychology profession seems to be failing abysmally at protecting these people from harm, informing people of the risks and doing sufficient preparation to even assess the appropriateness of EMDR. I am just having to do everything in my power to keep going. The worst part is when the terror peaks and sustains for a long time, but I have to just go through the visceral pain of that and know that it will eventually subside at least to some degree.

I'm a little better today and more drained than in terror. I'm sorry to write so much! I think I must be venting. I do hope you are continuing to feel better. 🙏🌸 Big hugs 🤗 

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

Please don't be worried about venting with me, I know how important it is when you feel things are beyond your control and I know it does help to some degree to express those feelings. I am glad you are expressing your feelings with your psych, the anger needs to be expressed to minimise further trauma.

I totally understand the trust issues you are having with your psych as a result of your experience, however, I also feel a large portion of the responsibility lies with the teaching associations and member associations that are not paying attention to or informing psychs of effects they need to be aware of in their practise.

I wonder if it may help you to also write to the psych associations describing what you are experiencing as a result of one session and ask them why they have not been proactive about protecting those who are vulnerable. Perhaps it will make them sit up and take notice of their responsibility in making the members of their associations aware of the possible re-traumatisation that can arise without digging deeper first. It may also be worth suggesting others do this as well so they see the gravity of the situation some individuals are in as a result. They should know that this could have been avoided if they had been proactive about information relevant to their profession and they need to be responsible about sharing new information as soon as it comes to light.

I am angry for you, I can only imagine how angry you must be. I know you, so I know you are strong enough to get through this but I also know that it is taking a huge toll on you. I just wish there was something I could say or do to help you begin to feel better. Whenever I read something, you are the first person I think of in terms of whether or not it may be helpful, but this is so specific, I will only make suggestions if there is some evidence that it may be of help.

I am glad today has been a little easier for you to get through, I hope the days ahead will become easier too.

Warm and healing hugs,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Hi indigo,

The Level 1 training teaches the 8 phase protocol which is meant to ensure the safety and preparedness of the client. My psych did not follow this at all even though she says she was trained. So I don't know if her training was accredited or with a non-accredited body, though even if not accredited the training should have still followed this protocol. My psych started bilateral stimulation as the first step and suddenly in the middle of a session - no preparation, no explanation of EMDR, no info on potential risks or side effects. I was 100% blindsided by what happened to me. The bilateral stimulation is meant to be in Phase 4. The earlier phases are meant to involve the careful selection of target memories, containment strategies for emotion and nervous system dysregulation and an assessment of the client's SUD (Subjective Units of Distress). My psych knew I had recently scored 37.5 on the Dissociation Scale II test. Standard EMDR is never meant to proceed if the score is over 30 and I've read that this is stated in the core text by Francine Shapiro that is usually part of Level 1 training. So it's hard for me not to feel angry when so many integral steps were missed. I actually learned how some of these things were meant to work and should have been done in my calls to The Blue Knot Foundation after the EMDR.

But I do get the sense that even the 8 phase protocol and standard training does not necessarily emphasise nearly enough the risks associated with Complex PTSD, dissociative disorders and neurodivergence. EMDR was originally developed for single-incident PTSD and it seems many practitioners don't make appropriate modifications nor understand the risks for other presentations. There is The EMDR Association of Australia but their website, even though it has a small section for the public, says very little about the content of the practice. There is really nothing about what the risks can be but they do mention that it's important to only work with someone with accredited training. I have thought of writing to them and psych associations, but also it's triggering in itself and I'm trying to get myself to a better place first. But my sense is that EMDR is big business now - it is a trend and an industry. It's like it has become the go-to therapy for most trauma therapists. And the thing is it can work very well for some people, but it can also be disastrous for others, and I feel those others are struggling away alone, only able to find any info or support from others with severe adverse effects on online forums. I agree it would be good for all those with truly awful experiences of harm to communicate with relevant organisations about what has happened to them. It is not actually understood how EMDR works in the brain, so if something goes wrong it seems no one has any idea how to help the brain recover. There is no requirement to have accreditation to practise EMDR in Australia, but based on my experience and that of others I feel it is necessary.

Basically now I just have to try to turn things in a positive direction. My blood pressure continues to spike with each adrenaline surge and my baseline hypervigilance level is super high. The s******dality is directly linked to the terror surges, so when in them I have to keep telling myself that's what is happening and it will eventually pass. I still get involuntary eye flickering and other strange neurological symptoms so it's clear by brain is still struggling with the reprocessing that began 2 months ago. I am hoping I can still work with my current psych to resolve these symptoms and feel much more normal again. It is still very difficult to feel any positive emotions but I feel small inklings of reconnection with my more normal self. So I think I'm making a very slow recovery. Even just participating in things like the joke section on this forum helps me to feel some amusement. In fact, I think humour may be an integral component of recovery. I need to really immerse myself in things I find healing.

Sorry for more ranting! 🙊 It just helps to get it off my chest. I really hope you are feeling better each day. Feel free to update and share how you are going anytime and I will shut up about myself for a while. Take good care and thank you for being caring and understanding 🙏🤗