Is depression like alcoholism? Is it something that can be cured or is it something that needs to be 'managed carefully' for life?

[10_05]

Hi - I am brand new on the forum and I think have joined simply to pour my thoughts out without someone crying when I tell them what has happened.

My brother attempted suicide 3 days ago.

He has been in a coma for 2 days.

Yesterday he came out of the coma very confused with no recollection of that actual incident.

Physically he is strong and he will recover but I am so so scared for his mental health. At present the hospital had him under 24 hour surviellance but he just keeps pleading to go home.  At times his pleading changes to anger toward his family.  At other times he is his jokey and jovial self.

I know it is still early times and I am reminding myself that in some ways this is the best outcome we could have hoped for. He is physically ok, he now has unlimited support available to him and he can't hurt himself. 

I want him to feel worthy again, I want him to recognise all the things he has to live for.  I want to get him out of hospital too so we can go and hang out at the beach or go motor bike riding, I want him to want to be there for his young children  . . . . .

But I am so so so scared that he will try again once he is allowed to leave.  I am scared that nothing has changed externally and all those struggles are still there. My brother is a very proud person and I know he has been struggling but any offers of help are bluntly refused.  My mum has said we can not blame ourselves for not seeing the signs but we did know.  We all knew and we failed to provide the support that he needed.

When it happened, my brother had his partner and family over. Apparently the evening was 'going well'.  No one anticipated him leaving the table and not returning. If this is how easily life can slip through our hands  . . . .

I want to be there for him, but an event like this has a way of bringing up your own demons. The knock on effect to family dynamics is devastating and there is a lot of blame, anger and frustration. I know this is a minor challenge in the scheme of things and my brothers wellbeing is the most important thing right now.

I know there is no quick fix.  I realise this will be a long road for all of us and especially for my brother but will there ever be a point that this will become just a bad memory? Will we ever be able to relax and not over analyse every single word that we do or do not say to him or around him????  How do we help when we appear to have failed so dismally so far????

[geoff]

dear 10.05, oh dear such a distressing post for you all, and your his loving brother who desperately wants to get him through all of this.

The question you ask ' Is depression like alcoholism? Is it something that can be cured or is it something that needs to be 'managed carefully' for life', is a very potent one, and really requires a great deal of thinking, and the answer is yes and no.

Both can be overcome, but hell it's never easy for either.

Alcoholics who have given up for many years still call themselves 'alcoholics' at any AA meeting, and likewise if you apply for a job or an insurance policy the question arises if you have suffered from depression, and you have to say yes, because in the event something happens to you then the Insurance company will go hammer and tong to find something that hasn't been reveilled, so that they don't have to pay out.

You can't blame yourself nor can your mum, because when someone has decided to commit suicide we can move mountain and earth to protect him, but it's that slight second when we take our eyes off them that anything can happen.

You physically and mentally can't have any idea of how to help or support him, simply because he won't disclose everything that is upsetting him, sure you may think that you may know, but this is impossible to read his mind.

None of you have failed to look after him, because you can't be there with him 24/7, on the loo, or in the shower with him, because he will want his privacy, and that's fair enough for him but not for you, as something may happen, and so this whole situation is a frightening time.

He maybe able to fool everyone just like he was able to do for the evening meal, and who on earth would ever think that that was his perfect timing, no one, because all was going well.

He has so much that underlines his depression, and no one knows, only him, and I'm sorry but he won't tell you the full story, not yet, and even down the track he probably won't, because non of my family will ever know why I tried a couple of times, and never will.

At this stage I would believe that he will not want to seek counselling, as he maybe still in denial, and if this is so, it will only create a major problem for you, because all you want to do is to get him to a psych a.s.a.p.

What you need to is to organise a crisis team to visit him at home, so that he can get used to some form of counselling.

I want to reiterate to you and the rest of the family that none of you are to blame, but it's so easy to put the blame on yourselves, but a depressed person never discloses anything to their family, because they don't want them to fuss around them, and depression causes this.

This is a very disturbing post for all of us, so please I implore you to keep in contact with us. Geoff.

[Kodak]

Dear 10.5

What a confusing time for you and your family. No doubt there are a lot of questions and thoughts to sort through when something like this happens. But as someone who has suffered from depression for a long time, i just want to reassure you that it is NOT something you have control over BUT you can be a source of support to your brother and his kids and keep an eye on him too.

You ask if its like alcholism and i agree with Geoff, yes and no. I can only speak for myself but for me its yes in that its something im aware of and I have learnt how it starts for me and try and head it off before i sink into it. But no too, in that despite of my tendency currently im okay .

Please dont beat yourself over the head about what has happened, it doesnt reflect on you. Its a sickness just like any other although the ramifications are serious. In fact, your searching for answers reflects well on your ability to not only help your brother but also to cope with it personally. Make sure you talk and get the support you need too, sometimes it just helps to know that you are not alone in your experience, and say what you need to express before you get on with being a good brother. Take a deep breath.

The other thing i would add is that this experience for your brother means that he probably is confused too, dont take to heart any bad things he may say to you or anyone else because at the moment he is not mentally well. And when he says no to offers, i would suggest dont offer, just do it. Let hime know he is valued and be the cushion he needs to lean on.

I urge you to keep in contact and take care of yourself. 

[10_05]

Hi Greg

Thank you so so much for your response. I have been reading it but time is precious at the moment and this is the first I have had to respond.

The last few days have literally been a blur. 

One of the hardest things has been how quickly things change.  Under any circumstances you need time to adjust and we have gone from nearly losing our brother.  To praying his physical recovery is good. To being advised by the medical team he would not be leaving hospital and them placing 24hr security at his bedside.

Next thing we know he was admitted to the mental health ward and before we knew it he was discharged.

I can not explain the mixed emotions.  The elation to finally have him discharged and allowed to come home.  But then the fear of what the future holds.

Your words have really really hit the nail on the head for me thank you so so so much for sharing . We can't believe how he can be discharged with no requirement of him to explain his actions.  His response has been that he can not remember what or why he did it.

How can we prevent this happening again?  How does he prevent this happening again if there is no what or why? I guess that is not relevant right now and may never be.

We have taken your advise and arranged in home counselling to commence today.  We are not expecting much but it is a start.

There are also several things that I have now been able to identify I can just get on and do that I hope will alleviate minor strain.

I had a million and one thoughts ticking through my head last night about what I can just do to help without asking but that wont anger him or leave him feeling like control or pride is being hurt. Because you are so right anything we offer he either says no or 'whatever' or 'who cares'

It seemed as though there was nothing to do but I have woken this morning feeling motivated with a number of things to achieve to help.

You have really really given me direction, support and clarity when even pychs and counsillors have not. 

Thank you so so much . . . I will stay in touch.

[geoff]

dear 10.05, OK that's a start, can I also suggest that in house counselling not to involve too many people as he will feel threaten, or more so, over powered and overwhelmed.

I only say this because my in house counselling involved two counsellors and all I did was agree with them so they would just go, and half the information they said to me went in one ear and out the other, but if he can relate to one person only, he may then decide to open up.

In theory it's good that's he's out, but practically it means a hell of a lot of attention and worry for you and your mum.

How can you stop this from happening again, the million dollar question, unfortunately you can't really, and the point I would like to make is that if he feels as though he is being watched everywhere he goes or 24/7 he will become agitated, and this can lead to grave results, so there's a fine line on how you do it.

He will be wondering what the hell is going on, because being in a coma he will have no memory and can't understand all the attention, however he will know that he is sad or has depression.

Just be careful if he does decide to go to the beach or wants to go motor bike riding, there are dangers associated with both of these, and caution as well, if he doesn't want to talk to anybody or stays in his room, but suddenly wants to do one of these there maybe thoughts of completing what he wants.

I'm sorry to mention these but it's necessary, and you have to take care yourself. Geoff.

[10_05]

Thanks Kodak (and Geoff apologies for getting your name wrong in previous post)

Your words, like Geoff's have been very very supportive.

I thought I had a plan yesterday (and I guess I did) but that was the problem it was my plan and not his and I felt very shut down and hurt by his response  yesterday when he saw what I had done (one being I had done a food shop and went round to cook up some spaghetti for himself and his family for dinner).  I am learning to manage my reactions better though so he does not need to deal with my emotions as well right now.

Thank you for your comments about the group counselling.  At this point it has all been group sessions with 2 or more support team plus as we are all struggling to let him far from our sight. There is always family hovering in the next room waiting (this must feel claustrophobic at times).  I know he has a session arranged by the hospital which is 1:1 and I am hoping this will be the 'connection' for him.

A few months ago I also nearly lost my life (undiagnosed medical condition) and I also lost my baby as a result. I would have been due this week. (Yes I am a sister). Although not religious I have had the thought that there was a bigger picture back then and losing my baby was all part of the master plan. And now I most certainly feel it was that life for his life. It perhaps sounds sad but honestly makes me feel stronger like things have all turned out the way they were meant too.

I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts as well as letting me share mine.

Oh  . . . and yesterday I heard Avicii Hey Brother on the way to see him, which really touched a cord with me. Although he either rejects or just does not respond to much of what is said to him at the moment. I mentioned this song to him and almost immediately he went and listened to it. We have always done this with each other. Kid Cudi -Pursuit of Happiness has been our way in the past of saying times are tough. Although his only comment to hey brother was that he had never heard the song before I feel like this is a huge communication break through to hold on to. Baby steps right!

Thank you so so much again.  I am reading and listening even if I do not respond quickly.

It is taking me a long time to write each of these posts as there are tears and smiles and typing, deleting and rewriting as I balance what and when to share but all of this is helping and I feel my own personal weight of the last few days and perhaps even the last few months lifting off my shoulders.

[geoff]

dear 10.05, I had a feeling that you may have been his sister, but thanks for letting us know.

I'm so sorry about the loss of your baby, and I wonder whether this is upsetting your brother and how he feels, but more so for you.

You have a lot of love and care for your brother so this is really hurting you, and would be devastating if something happens.

When there is someone we really love, then all we want is for them to open up to us so that we would know exactly why they are grieving, and it doesn't happen then we just feel helpless, but that's depression at it's best.

We do try and suggest plans because that's what we think may help them, but unfortunately they are mostly rejected, so we have to just wait for them to decide.

When I was seeing my psychologist she kept on asking me what I would like to do, I couldn't answer her, because it's like asking someone how many inches is it to the moon, I have no idea, well I could work it out, but not back then, because depression stood in my way.

Your a lovely sister for him, and I wonder on whether your two are twins, just a guess, but keep writing to us. L Geoff. x

[10_05]

Hi Geoff

Today I feel so so flat.  I am confused too.  A large part of me just wants to walk away for some time out but then I am scared of the repercussions of not being there.

We had a family catch up (immediate only)  yesterday at a park for a Birthday.  It is the first casual group family get together since all of this happened. It was such hard work and there where so many brisk comments flying between everyone. With exception of my brother who was off playing with the kids on the scooters appearing to have a great time. Is he just realising what he has and embracing it? or is he trying to pretend this never happened?  It is crazy to think that 10 days a go he lay in a coma with feeding tubes and breathing tubes and we where unsure if he would survive. . . . the physical scars are still present.

I think we are all still very tired from the emotional strain of the last 10 days. 

Something I am so very confused about is my brothers state of mind.  Lot's of things have come out over the last few days (although each seems to open a new question rather than answer it) within the group/family support sessions provided by the hospital.  On discharge from the hospital the pychiatrists advised the decision was because my brother showed no signs of psychological problems or clinical depression.  What does that mean?  How can someone that is not depressed try to take their life? He even locked the door behind him to hamper anyone's ability to discover/help him.

I personally have felt this was a high possibility for nearly 10 months now and have often rung family members for support after concerning conversations or messages from my brother.  I have also had conversation prompted by my brother's partner and her family members that have suggested we encourage him to get support as they where concerned for his wellbeing.

On a very surprising note my brother's partner disclosed in a group support session that she has had post natal depression and is on anti depressants and has been for the last 10 months. I will be honest my initial reaction was not one to be proud of.  I feel lied too and deceived and I am concerned that if she is not strong enough for herself right now then how can she be strong enough to support someone else as well?? Even though it is at her discretion to share this information with us and obviously she has had so much possibly clouding her own judgement but I feel there has been so much pressure and focus on my brother in recent months to 'fix himself'  with no reference to all the problems around him.

My brother actually txt me 2 days ago to let me know I needed to be there more for his partner or it will be her next.  I am not sure if this is him deflecting the focus off himself?  Or is this my brother grasping at something that will allow him to step up and feel like he has something to offer?  From my side of the fence I have a number of texts from him on the day all this happened about his partner.  He was clearly angry, so much so that I asked him to 'tone the texts down'.  My last text to him that day was that 'perhaps he needed to stop blaming others and take control of the situation and make changes that would make both him and his family happy'.  You can imagine then how sick I felt to receive the phone call I did in the middle of the night.   Anyway it is just so hard to have sit and listen to his partner say how happy he was just before it happened and to not indicate they where having any problems when I had been told otherwise directly by my brother.

I don't think now is the time to raise these concerns with either of them?  What do you think? My brother is still claiming to have limited recollection of events prior and my brothers mobile somehow ended up with a 'lock' on it while he was in a coma and has since been removed by the phone company but as a result all his prior phone correspondence has been wiped.

Am I too close to this situation to help??? It is consuming me at the moment and I am struggling to find the energy I should have for my own family.  My husband has been there although is not close with his own family so I feel does not understand why this is still all that is talked about . . . .

I think this was another blurt email.  I hope you have been able to follow my train of thought.  Thank you again for listening x