Forgiveness

[ecomama]

"Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different".  Oprah Winfrey

How many times have you heard someone say, "You need to forgive that person" ??

One billion and counting would be my answer lol. My question to the person saying that to me, was 
"Tell me HOW to forgive, like give me the STEPS to follow and I will do it!"... 

No one has been able to answer the HOW to do this. Maybe I have forgiven now, maybe I haven't, IDK. 

Is forgiveness a practice we work at every day? 
Is it visualising a little gift box wrapped with a bow and handed to that person? (Yep that was suggested to me lol). 
Does TIME help us forgive or is this just "letting go"? 

I've found it VERY hard to Pray loving Prayers for people I needed to forgive. Just sayin' lol. 

Although the Bible has Jesus' words "Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do." I'm not Jesus. 

Have you forgiven people who've wronged you? 

Could you be brave enough to share with us HOW you forgave that person or people? 

Thankyou for your contributions. 
Love EM

[smallwolf]

A couple of points ...

#1. regarding the sections being on opposition... for each section it depends on which side of the fence you are on.  The first 2 steps are about telling the story. 

#2. not sure how this might fit in but ... a person in the family inflicts hurt on you over a lifetime. It does not matter whether it was intentional or not. It is the effect on you that is important. At the same time you are supposed to love that same person. Seemingly impossible! Two things held in tension. I was listening to a podcast a little while ago where those involved (therapists in the USA) were talking about this (two things held in tension without feeling guilt or shame). The way forward was to the use "AND" so you (plural) can say something like "I love X AND they did some really bad things".  Perhaps a way of separating the person and the behaviour. 

Again, none of this is said to be easy and it is worth knowing the origins of the book mentioned.

As an aside, you mentioned writing a letter. At one time I was going to do the same. For a number of reasons that was not going to work and even if there were to say they were sorry, it does not change anything about how I feel about myself. All I am able to do then is work out my own way forward.

[white knight]

Hi EM

The fortress of survival is aimed at those that trust too quickly and latch on with their vulnerability and get hurt.

<span;><span;>https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/relationship-and-family-issues/fortress-of-survival/td-p/216226

<span;>https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/fortress-of-survival-part-2/td-p/399555

TonyWK

[ecomama]

Yes yes a thousand times yes Eagle Ray. This >> "I think it’s a two steps forward, one step back thing. I need to be patient and kind with myself."

This is why I say "my healing journey". 
Like life, it's a journey. 

Since you're into my analogies lol... 

Around 2.5y ago, I WAS getting better. Only saw glimpses of it. But I could FEEL myself healing. 

I asked my psych friends about this "wobbly time", interesting feedback on this lol. 

So we talked and talked about this time for me. It helped enlighten THEM. 

I saw my healing as a set of steps going UP. I get to the next step and pushed for the following one. But to the right hand side there was this steep slippery slide going down, fast. 

At times PTSD symptoms, anxiety even depressive thoughts came in (I have another analogy for that too lol)... I named these times "wobbly" or "a bit wobbly".
If I gave in to my default modes I'd be on that super shiny slippery slide down so fast. 

I had to STOP. 
Bolster my mind with all that I knew supported my mental HEALTH. 
Do it all, over and over on repeat. 

JUST remain stable.
Simply standing strong on THAT step. Relax, breathe, take in the VIEW! Hahaha. BE. 
Figuratively point around at ALL the wonderful achievements I've made, point & that one too! Oh over there, oh my puppy lol, all of it. 

STABLE. 

Begin the climb again. 

I AM ABSOLUTELY GOING TO FORGIVE these and all people who have harmed me. 
I am doing this with NO CONTACT because it can be done that way!
Never will I ever have them in my life again. 

I've never felt ambivalent ABOUT forgiving them. 
I didn't know HOW to forgive them. 
Hence this thread. 
Love EM

[Eagle Ray]

I absolutely can relate to the slippery slide analogy. I think I’ve actually been looking down it in recent days and struggling to stay on that step. Hence the reason I ended up under a blanket on my couch today and still there as I type this. Will keep looking for that stability on the step as you describe.

 I understand now. You absolutely want to totally forgive and it’s just a question of how. IDK yet the answer myself and it probably looks unique for each of us based on our circumstances and journey.

The suggestions from others above, book recommendations etc may offer helpful insights. Your no contact boundaries are clear and that clarity in itself might be a key step in the process.

Wishing you the very best, and having such strong and clear intent sounds like the best step towards your goal. Setting intention is so valuable.

Love ER

[ecomama]

Hey Er, I had to have a think about how to respond... our own words to ourselves can be SO powerful. 
In fact that's all there really is as points of mental HEALTH imho. 

So I've been teaching my next 3 children to drive (YAH 3 on their Ls lol). Lucky ME! Hahaha. I'm getting really good at this Learner Driver gig lol. 
One thing I say is "Look where you WANT to go..... Keep your eyes where you want the car to go..... don't look where you DON'T want to go...... keep your eyes fixed on your side of the road" etc etc. 

So "looking down it" being the slippery slope is NOT where you want to go. 
Bring yourself BACK to the step you're on. 
Hold ONTO all the mental HEALTH gains you've made. YOU HAVE EARNT THEM. 

One YT clip I share with any youth I work with, live with and who visit our home, when they're feeling a bit wobbly is "Power Pose" by Amy Cuddy. I get them to do it WITH me. So stand up, hands on hips, POWER POSE. 

You are ALREADY on the VERY stable step. Power pose. 
Remember how HIGH that step is? ISN'T the VIEW MAGNIFICENT! 
Point over there, yeah I achieved that, well done me, got that vanquished, WOW! On and on. 

I have that BEHIND me. 
I've SO got this! 

Our default habits of thought for x long are the debilitating ones. 
We vanquished them. 
We have NEW ones! They are so much better suited to WHO WE REALLY ARE. 

They need to be USED, over and over again. 

My possum's are little piggies tonight lol. 4 bananas, now 4 pears and a whole garden with ripening fruit! 

Love EMxxxx

[Eagle Ray]

Thanks EM! My psych mentioned Wonder Woman pose to me recently, so I realise this is probably the same as what Amy Cuddy is talking about. I will look at the YT clip.

And yes that’s very helpful to think of being high on the step with the magnificent view. In the last few days what helped me was remembering situations in which I had to stand up for myself (and family members) in extremely trying circumstances. I managed to be strongly assertive when I needed to (largely because I was pushed to the point my kick-ass superhero self activated all on its own). That was 2020, the year of hell, and unfortunately there were too many extreme events so I eventually completely broke down. But if I go back into the memory of those kick-ass moments I feel powerful, which knocks the powerless feelings on the head.

 I hope something is left after the possum feast! I have possums too. My peach tree is coming into blossom now. It’s the first time I’ve had a stone fruit tree (only been here a few months). I imagine possums and birdies both love the soft fruit, but hopefully I get to taste one.

Love ER xxxx

[ecomama]

Hey ER, my tip about stone fruit ripening in your garden, PICK some before they ripen! 
The fruit bats move in, in one night and clean the whole lot out lol! All good, they can't go to the shops, I can. 

Well done about the past Wonder Woman invoking lol. 
You're still a Wonder Woman NOW and any time in the future. 

NOW helps us all deal with depressive and anxious thoughts. 

Good work on your recovery! 

Back to forgiveness. 

Whilst waiting for books on the subject, I've decided to do my own mental imagery on the forgiving. 

This kind of thing ALWAYS helps me. 
Sometimes there's more knowledge within us about us and who and what we're dealing with. 

So creating our own ways of forgiving is my take on this. 

Best wishes everyone, 
Love EMxxxx

[white knight]

This is such a good topic.

Why do we have a yearning to forgive? The variations of forgiveness range- forgive only in ones mind but not contact, forgive with words to that person or forgive and carry on with that person as if nothing has changed. All 3 are different.

However I get the feeling that on this thread we are focussing mainly on forgiving in our mind and moving on. So on this situation we are seeking peace with progression on people that have wronged us. What ways can we do this?

Forgiveness found by-

• religion. An Indian family on TV forgave a young man that drove stupidly and caused an accident that took the life of their two teens. Amazing to watch but carried out through their faith
• accepting life is full of humans that threat others differently, indeed some are cruel acts. There is no remedy but distancing/insulation.
• unconditional empathy. "no matter what you do to me I will love you". IMO largely fooling yourself for reasons like false protection, ultimate faith that the person will love you back

The above is just off the top of my head. 

If a person you have forgiven in your mind but have gone NC, what happens if they knock on your door "hello darling". My estranged youngest daughter could do that, she has once several years ago. Remember, do what pleases you the most and leave the least guilt. In my case I'll let her in, offer a brew, talk, but as her actions have been cruel I will not give an inch, wont be afraid to tell her truths and allow her to leave without any display from me of a desire for any relationship. 

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/guilt-the-tormentor/m-p/321607/highlight/true

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/relationship-and-family-issues/disowning-a-family-member/td-p/49...

TonyWK

[ecomama]

Hey everyone reading along, please feel free to chime in on the conversation, it's amazing how someone's words can offer some sense of relief for others, knowing we are not alone in our circumstances. 

Whatever your "form of forgiveness" takes, you are welcome to join in to OFFER or RECEIVE support. 

Hey Tony WK, I love your 3 ways of forgiving. Thanks for that outline, it gives some CLARITY for us all. 

I chuckled at the always forgiving regardless being a person fooling themselves, I agree. 

And what would I do if one of these people I'm talking about forgiving came knocking on my door? 
For one I wouldn't answer the door, secondly I'd call the police. Mother has an expired AVO now which I didn't renew but would in an instant if I needed to. Others have already been warned by police to stay away, so I'd have evidence to follow through. I'm happy to report they've stayed away. 

Little to no chance for that kind of knock on my door thank goodness! hahaha. 

I realised I CAN forgive some people very easily especially IF:
a) it truly was a mistake or an accident and they apologised immediately
b) once I know they're going through a terrible time
c) once I find out the event was outside of their control eg a parent apologising for their child's behaviour. Arguable I know but hey it happens to all parents lol. 

So the hardcore ones I'm NC with, I will ALWAYS remain NC with - that's the point of NC for me lol. 
Forgiving under these circumstances ARE within myself, more like a spiritual thing. My aim is to release the weight of any thing re: them. Could be responsibility, care, offerings of ANY sort. 
Locking this down on all levels from physical (which is attained) to spiritual. 

It could even sound selfish and I'm fine with that! lol. 

Love EMxxxx

[white knight]

Hi EM

From the outside of any conflict it can seem unreasonable to some people knowing of a irretrievable relationship. It is quite normal for people not involved with both parties to question the person they know if it is indeed a permanent separation. Some families dont have conflict that is that severed they can just drift apart and still have a little contact. My family is "all or nothing" lol.

So when I knocked on the door of an estranged cousin she said "Tony, what can I do for you"? That was a very effective question because a) she didnt ignore me nor was aggressive b) she placed the situation back on me. The details are important-

Her mum, my fav aunty passed away. Two weeks earlier my 1st marriage split. We were interstate. I couldnt attend the funeral. 18 months later I wrote to my cousin asking if I could visit. "you were going to be a pall boy for my mother" then hung up. I wrote explaining but got a nasty reply. 20 years later I visited my other cousin in the same town and explained everything. She rang my estranged cousin and she conceded she had been harsh. It was patched up, we met and all is ok now.

So a third person can sometimes be the remedy. But as for the door knock, that reply is a pearler. 

As for my mother I choose NC. If there was a family event and I knew she was there I wouldnt go. If I was surprised she was at an event I'd leave immediately. I will never talk to her again. She ruined my 1st wedding and threatened the 2nd. Appalling behaviour and ... I did no wrong but she made up stories that were lies to justify what she did.

TonyWK