Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

[white knight]

I have, through natural processes, chased methods of how I can more quickly overcome roadblocks in my life. This is fundamentally due to having had a stressed life eg long relationships failing and the grief processes along with them. Over time I've grown less tolerant of that grief and become more desperate to leap frog them onto happier times. This is why I'm sharing this with you as it has saved me from much hurt.

The scenario- A long term relationship begins to fail. You've tried counselling and changes, nothing works. Your partner says they no longer are in love with you. Your natural strategy is save the relationship but you've already tried doing that with counselling... what extra counselling will you both need that would reverse this falling out of love development? Sometimes a partner will hold on forever waiting until all their issues vanish, they rarely ever do. When is the time to be realistic? Well that is subjective but as a rule of thumb there are signs that pop up regularly that tell you it can be saved or cant be saved. Eg both declaring love for each other and acknowledging outside stresses are to blame is a "can be saved" moment. A "I'm not in love with you now" is a "cant be saved" moment. Those phrases may be comments that are regretful and expressing that could go from cant be saved to reconsidering if it can be saved, but this isnt common.

I had a "cant be saved" moment in a past relationship. My partner over many years had manipulated our finances to become the number one controller of our money. I was on an allowance. By this time I wasnt happy about it and felt my easy going demeanour resulted in being taken advantage of. I was earning 3 times her salary but always treat us to equal. Then a lifelong passion arrived- to purchase a special vehicle. That car would be owned by our company so it was a tax incentive... or we pay extra tax, so it was also clever to buy. She was not a car person so rejected the idea. At one point in our discussions she made a statement- "you can have the car but you have to save for it out of your allowance". I worked it out to take 42 years. That night we talked and that moment it "cant be saved" came "well start saving". I've discussed "passions" in other threads but a passion is a burning desire and those without a passion dont have that feeling and cant relate. It was over.

So, making quick decisions saves us from more hurt and dragging out issues- nip it in the bud!. Your thoughts?

TonyWK

[randomxx]

Yeah, l wouldn't think you'd be the kind of man to walk round being married to somebody yet being in love with somebody else. l can understand how something else developed later on though in a different way with all new circumstances.

You hear of this sort of thing a lot really actually, well l have , and l always wonder about it when l hear of it and how it developed from one level to that next.but your situation makes perfect sense, your a lucky man mate.

Unfortunately l don't have any long term female friend where something like that might be possible.

Anyway, also sadly to yep, l think your right about gf. l always had a worry about her love. l put it in another post here but that one seems to have gone west , or we might end up with a double kinda post later on if it does pop up now.

But it all caused me to hold back on her. l was never the full partner, l just couldn't open up that door with her bc l just couldn't trust her love basically. lt's hard to explain but there were cultural attitudes with her people, there was also her desperate situation when we met, and also just some of her attitudes, it was a mix, but l just couldn't just couldn't trust it.

l often wonder what if l just did, laid it all out there, just went for it properly instead of this weird hold back thing l felt and couldn't help. Would've her love developed into the right love, or maybe it even was after all to start with but maybe l holding back just wore it down. She knew my love wasn't right either, at least not in the ways she was getting it and that really got to her and l couldn't blame her.

ln ways though even though l'd held it back, my love actually turned out more real , more the right kind than hers, really. Bc l'd still go on and work it out but hers had quit, sickness or not l still feel it's quit.

So now my doubts are even more so and l feel like moving on bc that's just not the love l wanted anyway. lf there was going to be another it'd need to be 100%.

Thanks a lot for the threads and this chat too Tony , very appreciated it's really cleared things up and pretty well also sadly confirmed what l'd feared too bc it all adds up. l'll find those and read through.

All the best

rx

[randomxx]

This is actually the 3rd time she's done this. Spose l was an idiot going past the first one. l'd leave the door open though bc she's a hot head and stressed and her anxiety goes through the roof with her stuff still going on.

She'd usually just start talking again, messages n calls and l've let it go on from there. Some times l've thrown in a bit of temptation too , but so has she. like l'll come up to hers. lt's easier for me to get away and up to hers than for her to fly down to mine.

This time though she's seems different though and resigned to her doom, l call it, to be her mum. She's still calling and messaging, but still all doom and resigned .

ldk.

[white knight]

There's two things that stand out RX. You have a lot of "had I done this or that" I would have been better off. Or if I stopped trying the first time" it might have worked out. True love ticking all the boxes would have prevailed for both of you if it was there. You handled it your way and guilt shouldnt be an option because had you had your time again you likely would have done the same things because thats how RX does things. Guilt sometimes gathers momentum for one of two reasons, we compare our decisions to what others might do differently or we blame ourselves for things not working out because we feel incompetent. Neither is accurate. Guilt is a sham, its a shackle we dont need. Dwelling is a product of guilt and regret.

Remember, as I eluded earlier, there is women out there that are more suitable, all you have to do is find the one. People are so vastly different so no good saying to yourself that you wont look because of this reason and that reason and basing your thoughts on previous relationships. It's like a new discovery.

My daughter met her husband on Tinder. Their compatibility was remarkable, both teachers, both into computers and computer games, both aspiring for the same in life. To be successful on computer dating sites is to ignore the poor reviews of them and take out of them what you need, if the desire is to meet someone. Dating is one of the best forms of moving on from a past relationship because the realisation that people can be so different really hammers home on dating. My first real date with my current wife was vegetable soup at my house... there must have been something in the soup!!

There's a lot of "maybe's" in this thread. That's a sure sign of dwelling. Dwelling on the past is commonly due to-

• remaining in contact with the person you dwell on (so constant reminders)
• a mental roadblock with moving on
• not taking practical steps to distract you from past life (dating or sports/hobbies)
• Not busy enough
• Feeling like a comfort zone is to go over and over on the same topic thinking that will sort it out
• having an indecisive parent
• Guilt and/or regret
• Romanticising the good and dismissing the bad of a relationship
• of the false belief that no one could ever replace that person in ones heart

Hence why all of the above can be disregarded with the direct decision that - no it didnt work out, I tried my best, she wasnt ideal so I must move on. Now, where do I start...

I'm not disregarding the intensity and hurt you've experienced nor continue to suffer from, its terrible to dwell on things as I used to do the same (my mother was a chronic dweller). The road towards stopping to dwell isnt an easy one to follow through with. It take almost personality change. Hence a need for practical steps to force yourself into activities and being busy with life so your focus is on other things.

How do I know this? That 1st wife of mine we had 2 kids. Due to her abuse of me over 11 years (yes it started on out honeymoon), that led to that one and only suicide attempt then left a week later, I ended up in my 11 foot caravan in a caravan park with visitations every second weekend. It was only when I began to build my own home physically plus working 12 hour shift work that I was so busy and so exhausted daily, that after a while the grief of losing my full time fatherhood and the guilt of "could I have done this or that better" that I no longer had time to think about it. The 8 months of building the house before moving in (still a lot of work to do) allowed me my freedom of mind, a process to stop dwelling. It was a game changer.

An example of dwelling. I left the RAAF at 21yo. When I was 19 I had a brawl with a colleague and I felt guilty about it as he had been a friend. So at 21yo I found his at a new airforce base and surprised him when he saw me. I apologised to him and he walked away. That was 1977. Then when Facebook came about in 2010 I found him on that and sent him a message. He blocked me. I told a close friend about this continuation of my dwelling over this that spanned 33 years!. He said "well I would have stopped contact the first time". That comment provided me with the knowledge of what was reasonable and what was over dwelling on the past. Being forgiven was my need, it is no longer a need.

Such growth results in the future being more important.

TonyWK

[randomxx]

l take time to work through things and l like that , especially in something like this.

One things for sure , l've sold my share of the property nd am now living up on the Murray in a caravan, so yeah , there's new direction alright .

l made my mind up and got the ball rolling the minute she flipped this last time.

l was there until my d grew up and she is was really happy l'd decided to do this.The idea was 8yrs ago buying that was to be there for her and with her while she grows up but to also have a nice life and spot after divorce for myself too, it was a gorgeous spot and place, but to also see if l liked it long term.

lf not l'd move later on was the thought.

Always told gf to that the town the place , the house, it was a lovely life as a couple situation, but should l end up single when d is ready, l'd leave.

Gf went off, why did you leave why did you leave well, you flipped again, l'd had enough, and now l've left, but then she's but but but, no more buts though sorry love.

Been a huge few mths let me tell ya, wrote about it in your other thread you linked for me a wk or two back.

So yeah, new life as we speak, dk what l think of it yet but anytime l send pics to anyone they're saying you lucky bugger so eh,, hopefully well, we see.

Mind you , few times lately l wake up step out and think- you lucky bugger ha ha, so we see.

l don't want to deal with any more property any time soon, and l'm not sure where l'll go when l do, and l don't really giva damn either right now.

Maybe l'll meet miss right right here on the beautiful river hey.

Gf , you know, with ex w, l knew day we met, so did she, it was a given, no brainer. We traveled 10yrs and married on an island, had our beautiful daughter, but with the yrs we did change too and unfortunately well.

l did feel that way about gf too and so did she we talked about it within wks, she wanted to move in and go for it. l was the hold up.

Anywayyyy, l hear Tony and thku very much.

rx

[white knight]

RX

The Murray is great. There's a good free camp at Nyah west of SwanHill at the rec ground, water, dump. You are doing what I suggest to many, change environment settle yourself financially and go through the motions of figuring it all out until you can move on mentally. I think your last thread went some time and I couldnt keep up with the posts as so many replied. I hope you benefitted.

Re: Why did you leave etc" "You flipped again". Interesting. My lovely wife does have some depression, sleeps a lot. And with my issues we can help each other out when we are down unless we are both down at the same time then its tough. We identified that lack of sleep effects both of us in terms of mood. So that has helped figuring that out. But we that have mental health issues are really better off with someone stable as our rock. A therapist once said "Tony, when are you going to stop running around trying to save the world"? Well I still do a little but that comment alone made me identify that along with anxiety and mania she helps me to slow down merely being herself. She does everything at the same pace eg waling the dogs I often look around and she is 50 metres back "you're the one thats walking fast" lol. So there are so many things that we can number in terms of compatibility that we dont think of when dating or the first year or so living with someone.

One thing I'd like to mention RX is that I was one person with mental health issues that caused me to be immature for my age. eg at 17yo I joined the RAAF but emotionally I was say 13, At 21yo I worked in a maximum security jails but emotionally say 16 and so on. It was only when turning 50yo that I realised I was emotionally about 50yo, the same, I'd caught up. Most women are the opposite. So with some men like yourself (perhaps) you werent able to commit mentally to a relationship because you had some sort of discomfort from things like trust issues. I've known many men like that, whereas I was the opposite. When I married my first wife I shouldnt have and we had 2 kids and I paid a heavy penalty a few years later when I had to leave due to the torturous attitude she had. I dreamt of the day my youngest turned 18yo (14 years ago) and that day my child support stopped. I no longer had to tolerate her attitude and told her I no longer want any contact, no matter the reason. 

So along those journeys I managed to realise some people were toxic and not good for me. But it would have been a shame if I'd become too much of a recluse. So I became very careful who I allowed into my life on a permanent basis.

TonyWK

[Scared]

May i chime in

Its about being inlove vs Loving someone

My mum used to tell me being in love is not the same as really loving somebody.

Her point of view was if your in love then you can fall out of love and that real love there is never a falling out of love. 
For years i disagreed until I met my last partner.  This time my love was different for her.  I valued what was right for her and happy to put her first.   And after 8 years my love has never wavered .  Yet i dont feel in love only love for her wellbeing.   And I wouldnt choose for any different now i feel this way.  There is never temptation for others and for a long time I pulled my hair out trying to get her to believe me that i love her still even if she has put some pounds on.  I always told her I love her however she looked and I cant fathom a time i could be out of love.  Im not in love with her but I love her warts and all so to speak.

What are you thoughts on my views.  

[randomxx]

Thx Tony and don't worry you haven't missed much in the thread, dilemmas been going on quite awhile and lots of circling. But, as l say to people that's often my way of working things through if l have to, works for me eventually.

Some things in life are down the barrel right but every now and then we get a tricky one.

There's a lot to our story though no cut and dry poor thing had the lot when l first met her and for 31/2 yrs in. A violent ex, courts, insane legals, lawyers, immigration, on and on.She'd had anxiety and depression most her life so you could just imagine all this, and in a new country.

And we were long distance too 70% of time bc she had to stay in Sydney for all that so added fin or us both too. l supported her all through as she did me too but l wasn't perfect either far from.

listening to you talk about different people and your own things too, probably a lot of us through bb see ourselves. We've both got tempers too like you and yours, l also have a sabotaging streak and she has a bit of it too-but with distance and all the stress plus my own stuff on top of hers, it was worse and made it even harder, especially for her.

Even with all that though, to this day l still hardly believe some of the things she's done for us and for me , been through for us and it's why l question everything and half the time it's not even her or love talking but anxiety and pressures.

And just today she proves it yet again. She text me with an idea. This is so her, in a gorgeous way l mean. She's excepted now l left my place and l'm up here and she has and idea. When l've finished my holiday she calls it, why don't l come and live in Sydney. Hence my on and on thread ha ha. Deep down even with all the stuff we've had and all this barking, end of the day inside, she hasn't given up.

This is about her 100th idea to save things, she;s a brilliant idearist .

l don't know what to say here after all that now so l'll just leave it there for now.

But yeah l've had so many realizations to this last 5-10yrs but especially through all this with her too. She is braver than me when it comes to commitment.

The Murray , hell yeah Tony , it's pretty well sacred to me as it should be to every Australian l feel. Such a special place all 2.6k kms of it, don't you think. You can still see our Aboriginal people here in the trees in the waters along the banks, 1000s and 1000s of yrs.

Thanks very much for that spot l'll def check it out when l head further down. l've stumbled over the most beautiful spot here atm , just out of Cobram, which is a lovely little place too but the Murry along here is just really something too.

rx.

ahh, ps.

Yaknow scared, l know what you mean and me, l think if l wanted to dig into it l'd say being in love turns into real love.

[white knight]

Thanks for your input Scared

I actually think "loving someone" is better than "in love". "In love" is blind to the warts, we ignore the bad habit and have unreal expectations of the future.

Loving someone can have various levels of intensity, of adoration and cherish them. It's more stable and sustainable.

TonyWK 

[white knight]

Rx

Once we were on the Vic side of Yarrawonga busy camp spot. Over the river was a bank empty. So we went there. It's called Sandy Beach, 13km west of Mulwala. Top spot.

I think if I was you and your ex gf texted me with such idea to reunite I'd be asking for a detailed plan eg why, where, how, when and 1,5 10 year plan. If she can't provide details then it's shallow. Eg her mental health, what's her plan to prevent/reduce "flipping out" as you call it? How intense is her love for you? Could she visit you and spend a few weeks with you to test the waters? Does she know what happiness is? It's as though she has a level of comfort with you and yearns that but with no real plan it's like producing an ace and holding the deck hoping other aces will follow... 

TonyWK 

[randomxx]

Morning Tony and shout out to scared.

Thx again Tony might have to wander up there and check it out. Could only imagine all the spots along, hope to go all the way through to the mouth eventually, although lately l'm wondering how l'd even leave a spot like this o we see.

Yeah she's planned 100s of things for us right through she has brilliant ideas but l've been the silly bugger hold up .

She;s also come down to mine for mths a time over the yrs too she'd still be there she'd have never leave unless for legal obligations back up Sydney happened a few times. l'm the one usually gets um ah . l've realized l've subconsciously sabotaged , internally panicking , use to being on my own 5yrs before she came along, l'm fairly introvert, my divorce and everything there, as l say, she's much braver than me .

The anxiety and flip usually came into it from sydney when she's back home alone and panicking herself with all her pressures she has there, she's never like that when we're together.

My d says she gets back gets scared gets all her other pressures coming in again her anxiety hits the roof then here's us still long distance bc of me, l think d probably nailed it tbh.

But anyway, reading your other post about starting over and all those things you list, yeah, l can see what you mean. l don't usually have any contact with an ex myself actually either, ex w is only about any parenting and d.

Gf, just haven't made my mind up yet if we're done so haven't closed the door yet. So as you can see it was no ordinary situation with us but if l decide to close the book l'll def' take your tips.

Tbh, l'm not gonna live in hope forever but as yet l just haven't felt right about completely giving up on us either, not yet anyway. But for now l'm doing what l'm doing doors may open or close along the way, just trying to get my bearings atm.