Different values and their effects

[white knight]

It's subjective to the extreme. Everyone has different values on everything be it life, family, friends, ...everything.

Had a friend at our house a while back. She commented that her friend is really lazy. She then mentioned she believed she was lazy because "she sleeps in till 11am every morning". So does my wife and I. But I let that comment go.

And the reason we should let others make their comments without too much scrutiny is because we should be, to a degree, tolerant. For the sake of peace and general harmony. You can though, pick the judgmental person clearly if you arent too judgmental yourself. Judging someone laziness based on their sleeping pattern is a bit rich. My wife and I like TV shows that are on late at night. That friend of our friend works afternoon shift. and so on. Some are early birds, some not.

So what effect do different values have on our mental health?  Does being over judgmental display a negative attitude that could hinder recovery? Does negative thoughts and judgmental stance contribute to a tormented mind? so many questions and so few answers.

When in recovery you really want to give your life its best chance to not only recover but remain recovered to the best of your ability. It could mean sacrifices.

Today, after 6 years I deactivated my Facebook. It was a hard decision. So many friends on there that I know will no longer choose to email me instead, or phone. But following two major instances of bullying, several instances of my own mania dictating my over reactions in social clubs and being caught up in silly comments enough was enough. But more importantly it was time to cut it out of my life as part of my ongoing quest for better chance of recovery. You simply cant have the attitude that recovery is when your medication is ok or you are feeling good for a while. It has to be ongoing. Just like working on a marriage that had broken down. Why should your mental health be any different? You have to keep the effort going, constantly reviewing, always looking at ways to help yourself.

Everyone has different values, see life in their own eyes. Everyone has a right to these values. It's part of being free. It only becomes a problem when you judge others by their values too often and too harshly when it alters ones harmony of mind away from any positivity that could be achieved. Extra tolerance of other people, greater acceptance for others values could allow you mind to free up clutter so you can recover better.

Hope it helps.

Tony

[Amelbourneboy]

Hi Tony,

wow that was interesting and actually profound to read. I have always had the attitude "everyone has there own opinion", and im lucky enough to actually believe and live my it. I am happy to listen to someone else point of view, it doesnt bother me they are different and i repect there point.

Facebook.... sigh... you need a real good pat on the back for deleting it. I cant do it yet. It strange because I am pretty sure if i did, not many would notice and even less would bother sending a text but i keep it... why? Part is trying to fit in, keep up with the latest news, whos had a baby? whats everyone having for dinner? who hates there husband for some trivial reason?

Your paragraph about values and harmoney of the mind is so spot on!!!!

thank you for putting it out there.

[CMF]

Hi Tony,

Interesting topic.

" Does being over judgmental display a negative attitude that could hinder recovery? Does negative thoughts and judgmental stance contribute to a tormented mind?"

I think...YES.  I am guilty of being over judgemental. It means I can sometimes spend too much time thinking of others' and having negative thoughts towards them. I know I am guilty of this but reading your post made it clear to me how it does affect me and does affect my mood because I feel annoyed with the people I am judging.

Why should I feel annoyed by them? Does it make me feel better about myself because I am not like that? Does it make me the better person? NO but it takes up a lot of my time that I could be using to do or think things that make me feel good and happy.

Great topic - thank you, it helped me!

CMF

[NicoleP]

Hi Tony and CMF

As always Tony you open up a very interesting discussion. I have spent some time contemplating what you have written and CMF probably has similar thoughts to me. Is it that we have different values? Or is it that we use our values to judge situations? I am sure that you do not value laziness, but you do enjoy sleeping in. It is your friend's judgement that sleeping in is lazy. It is often our judgements that get us into trouble cos we make a judgement and act upon it. Often those judgements are due to the way we are brought up and the way we believe people should act. I am reading a book that uses the example of a man and his 3 kids get on a train. He sits down and closes his eyes while the kids run riot and disturb everyone on the carriage. The belief is that he should control the children - so finally someone says something to him. He responds with the fact that he was coming from the hospital from where his wife had just died and he just didn't know how to cope- suddenly everyone was more understanding and accepting. Your friends have beliefs about when people should get up and therefore everyone who doesn't get up at that time is lazy. I get up at 5am weekdays and go for a 10km run - I could argue that anyone who doesn't do this is lazy (or sensible).

The next thing is that we react to the things people say (weel at least I do). If people treat me well, I feel well. I build my emotional life around the behaviour of others and that is what I react to. I am driven by my feelings, by circumstances, by conditions and by my environment. I am attempting to take control and make value-based choices and responses.

Quote from Stephen Covey "It is not what happens to us, but our response to what happens to us that hurts us"

My question is - How do you stop reacting to other people?

Thanks for the interesting post and opening up another stimulating discussion.

Kezza

[white knight]

To all three responses so far- I'm staggered at your honesty and detail of reply. Wonderful.

Kezza, " How do you stop reacting to other people?".  The one obvious step is to limit the number of people we are in contact with, and those we are in contact with, to limit the time and frequency of such contact.  Close and often contact would be reserved for those proven to be supportive, enjoy or need your support, are compatible and mutual respect and for the mentally unwell...understanding and acceptance of what we display as non mainstream behaviour eg I had a new friend a few years ago and he and his wife were invited for dinner. He has bipolar 1. Just as we sat down he rearranged us for us to sit where he decided we should sit. We did. Then after dinner coffee was served. He told us not to start drinking the coffee. He proceeded to clear the dinner table including the milk we needed for our coffee. When he finally sat down, we all burst out laughing because in his seemingly perfectionist behaviour-....he took away our milk !!! We werent harmed by his acts. We were intrigued etc but he was accepted. But how far do you go with such acceptance.? Unfortunately later on I realised he had a "weighing scale mind" (I have another thread on this elsewhere in the forum) which resulted in him regularly criticising us for not visiting him as regularly as he did us. My comfort zone was breached and the freedom of a good easy going friendship was not sustained.

So do we, those that over react easily to other peoples acts and words "shut ourselves away? I've cut myself from two auto clubs in 6 years. I've left some of the people there with either of two feelings about me. Either they adore me or they despise me. Why would that be? I can guess. Those that adore me know I am the type of friend that will travel hours if they are in need, rocking up at their doorstep when they are in grief. Also I'm loyal and wont tolerate degradation of them from others to the extreme (I wish it was measured better). The ones that despise me are those that dont/wont/cant understand me nor know me well. Often they initiate the conflict with harsh words and my over reaction results in them cracking back lethally. These two extremes of relationships end up losing that harmony of a club you yearn for. Tension is bad for us.Goodbye club.

A  friend told me nicely after I cancelled Facebook "you have to grow a thicker skin". Easier said than done. Your skin is your makeup. It;s how we are. It's us.

[NicoleP]

Hi WK

I am finding this thread really interesting. I agree that we limit the number of people who we are in contact with and I attempt to surround myself with people who are 'good' for me. That has meant cutting ties with my parents. Like you, I also cut ties with the local Runners Club because of a member who chose to act towards me inappropriately. I really miss the club and all of the other members at the club who I had really good friendships with.

However, you can't avoid everybody. I have just been through a really difficult situation at work. A co-worker didn't like what I was doing in my classroom and continually interfered and was offended when I told her to mind her own business (formal complaint to Principal). She didn't like if I said something to her, and she didn't like it if I didn't say something to her (more formal complaints). It ended up with mediation (as recommended by me) and the mediator basically told her to pull her head in. Unfortunately, this whole situation has damaged my relationship with my Principal who believes that the situation has come about because of my anxiety issues (we have spoken about this kind of thing before - where a strategy to avoid conflict is misinterpreted as a health issue).

I have gone a bit off track here. I guess what I am trying to say is that we can try and limit our contact with these people but at what cost. I feel like I am always running away from something.

My husband is a person who I really admire. He has this amazing ability to be emotionally independent of other people. They can do whatever they like to him and he just shrugs it off and moves on. I take it to heart, beat myself up about it and basically rely on others - I am emotionally dependant on other people. I think it goes back to the whole relationship with my parents where I was constantly lloking for their approval and never receiving acceptance of the person I was.

Sorry I am rambling.

Kezza

[white knight]

Hi Kezza,  you are not rambling and you werent off track actually. But I understand the guilt of feeling that.

You said  "where a strategy to avoid conflict is misinterpreted as a health issue". A true statement that often happens to us.

When I cancelled my FB account yesterday I had mixed feelings. Then I spoke to a good friend that also has depression that is a member of my auto club that largely is connected through FB. He is of quiet personality, really keeps to himself, is supportive and a real mate. He is a member of other clubs also whereas where ever I've spread my wings they have been clipped. Interesting I think that personality plays a part as well as illness.

I think you are on track in that if others know of your illness you are "tagged", forever you will be looked upon as someone that is unpredictable and unstable. Then what occurs with me is that I get angry at the injustice of it all and lash out....all of a sudden you are a trouble maker. Once a trouble maker always a trouble maker. Forgiveness is elusive when it comes to mental illness behaviour or one that rocks the boat.

My daughter is a teacher. My advice to her for some time has been to "not make waves". Sad isnt it that I'm acknowledging that to survive in the workplace one should if at all possible keep a low profile. We live in a grey judgemental society- no good if your views are black and white.  And It's wrong but it is the way it is. There's a lot in society that we have to endure/tolerate. And just as CMF suggested this mind of judgement be it a teacher that has to -not be herself and stand up for her rights or in other workplaces where we are bombarded with gossip and comments, it all takes concentration and brain time we could well do without.

You certainly cant escape all people. But just as you get less parking tickets in a town in a rural area you can limit the effects of conflict by less contact with people. I cant see any other method of lessening this problem.  Cognitive deficiency might play a part in all of this  ?

[NicoleP]

Hi Tony

I read your post and I feel very in tune with what you write.

Your decision about FB has obviously been a hard one but one that you feel is best for you. As I said in a different thread, I am on FB but limit the number of friends that I have and am very careful with my privacy settings (that does not mean that I have not been burnt by FB but at least has limited it). I guess it frustrates me, that we do have to modify what we do - withdrawing membership from clubs or FB - because other people cannot control their actions. I know that my psych would say that you can't control what other people do, only how you react to it but sometimes the choices we are given are not palatable. I had the choice of staying with the runners club and being harassed by a member (verbally, on home phone, work phone, mobile phone, email, text message, club newsletter, FB) OR leaving the club. Is that really a choice? It seems to me that you have faced the same thing with the car club.

I agree about the not making waves comment but I find I am increasing put into the double bind situation of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I made small talk with a work colleague and asked her about yard duty (formal complaint), I didn't ask her about her ill mother (formal complaint), I said good morning to her and she didn't hear cos she wears hearing aids (formal complaint), I closed the doors between our rooms cos she was making a lot of noise and didn't say anything (formal complaint) and on it goes. Because of my circumstances, Principal tells me to go and see my psych every time I muck up. Fun and games. As it is only a 2 1/2 teacher school, it is not that easy to hide. Anyhow, am going to stay at the school for another year and not run away like I want to. I am well respected by the school community. Am going to try and use it as a learning experience.

Love your ticket analogy, but I still need to work on how I deal with people who annoy me - I have to take ownership for the fact that I get annoyed and react.

Thanks for listening - you should start charging for these therapy sessions

Kezza