Determining the cause- anxiety/depression

[Michy007]

I'm hoping to hear others stories, re how anxiety is determined (the cause). 
Or are there many out there who suffer with anxiety, and unclear what the true cause is?
My understanding is there can be causes that go deeper than what appears on the surface.
I also don't refer to it as 'my anxiety' as that would indicate 'I own it' when I don't. 
I don't own it, yet I do need to understand the what, and how? (what is the underlying cause, and then understand how to 'fix')
For some of us, triggers or fears can come from an early age, and only ever trying to find our way through life, whatever that entails. I believe it is fair to say that many of us find the only way we can navigate our way through life, is based on learnt survival skills from an early age. Survival skills we learnt, haven't always worked in life. I have a fair idea as to what has shaped my life, trauma from a young age. Then events through life became somewhat traumatic- traumatic in comparison to say someone who didn't come from a dysfunctional family. 
None of this is new to me, yet have to say that I've never learned to 'unlearn' thoughts, and learn new ones that are helpful. 
I’ve had major struggles with thought processes in life, resulting in anxiety and depression, even if just from time to time. I’ve seen many therapists through life, yet none who have been able to break it down, in a way that makes sense, or to create change. Never seeming to get to the root problem. Whether it is abandonment issues/fear, or whatever, to-date I’ve just not found the right help.  I would be most interested to hear of others stories, even if still having challenges

[indigo22]

Hi,

Welcome to the forums and thank you for reaching out to us.

You sound like you have done a lot of work on self-awareness which is great, I'm sorry to hear you haven't yet got the root cause, we humans are such complicated beings with things like mental health issues.

I have been dealing with depression for over 50 years, I do know where it began but it was not recognised and so went undiagnosed and untreated until I was in my 40s. I have had to do a lot of learning since then and I think I may be finally getting to the point of understanding myself and my thought processes (now in my 60s). Sometimes the journey can take a lifetime to understand.

I came from a dysfunctional family also, but our experiences are probably different even in that respect. You are right about there usually being a root cause that stems from childhood. I think what hinders our progress is that the coping mechanisms we adopt when we are young, don't translate well when we are an adult, but they are so ingrained that they are automatic. That's why it is important to be self-aware so you can catch yourself repeating old patterns and start to question them. There were a lot of arguments in my household when I was growing up, even now I can be triggered by a couple having a loud argument in the street, but I am also able to get over it fairly quickly once the trigger is no longer there.

You said you have seen counsellors over the years, but wonder if you have done any reading on mental health issues. I found this to be quite eye opening and has helped me a lot. One book I can recommend is "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk, I had a few aha moments reading that one. There are others too that have been helpful along the way. I think one of the main reasons this has helped me is because I am not telling my own story, but I can relate to the information I am reading which helps to put a new perspective on things.

I don't know if any of this helps but I hope it does to some degree and would be happy to continue the conversation if you wish.

There is much to read here on the forums, perhaps something will create a spark for you.

Take care,

indigo

[Michy007]

Hi Indigo, thanks so much for your kind message. 
I've looked up the book you mentioned already, and will buy soon. I'd already been thinking how I used to read 'so much' yet haven't really done so in many years now. Yet I used to enjoy reading, also relaxing (something else I have trouble with).
I'm similar age to you, now 60. I would most definitely be very interested to chat further. 
To say a bit more about me, I'm mostly a people person. I do like having social outlets, yet also happy with my own company- yet only to a 'certain point.' Meaning I spend way too much time on my own at home. First time I've ever lived alone, when I moved here (semi rural)- used to more city/coastal living. And why? because I had a strong need to invest inheritance in R/Estate. I've known too many who received inheritance, and squandered it in no time. In saying that, I've now made many friends up here, yet it took a long time- and not without major depressive episodes (anxiety/stress), feeling so alone here. That situation (friends who live close) took some time. Then my business had to close (the economy)- people have had to cut back on expenditure etc. 
And so I finally went back to the workforce, not an easy journey past year and a bit. So much online training, and even now never enough hours/shifts. Something I've been working on, applying for jobs again!  more decisions to make. Still working through it, yet continually wonder if I'm on the right path.
My background and quals in HR, yet have worked many years self employed. I'm now doing support work, and it's been causing me stress, largely re the employers I work for, not the actual work. Sometimes in life (often enough) trying to work through many things at one time, can cause stress, on top of feeling alone/isolated often enough as well. 
What I notice the most re feeling ok in myself, is that I can go from feeling like I have many friends, have a nice time with them socially, then gradually/suddenly can feel so alone and isolated. I feel detached from people, feeling alone, very quickly sometimes. And once those feelings creep in, it's hard to shake. 
Anyhow could write till the cows come home some days, yet what I've relayed is how life has been going for me. Oh and I find making decisions on many things difficult these days too. Comes back to fear, and life experience. Hard to make decisions, based on life experiences. Fear of making big mistakes in life, as I have done. I've only started paying more attention to why decision making has become difficult by now. All of this I believe I'm working on, at least trying, bit different to before. Yet downside is, once we start questioning ourselves too much, overthinking, that can easily become a spiral downward. 
Anyhow Indigo, I'd like to hear about your challenges, and how you're doing atm. When time permits of course. 
It was lovely to receive your message, much appreciated. Hopefully we'll chat more soon. 
Cheers, 
Michy007

[indigo22]

Hi Michy007,

Would be happy to chat anytime you wish. Occasionally there may be a slight delay but most times I will get back to you within 24 hours. I am one of the Community Champions and part of our role is to make sure new members are welcomed and replied to as quickly as possible. There a few more of us as of recently so that's taking some of the pressure off.

Rather than repeating myself, I have put a link below to my first post that will give you an idea of my background and challenges. I have found the forums to be the ideal place for me to help others who are going through challenges or a crisis. It can feel very lonely until you join a community like this, where you don't need to explain everything because the other community members just 'get it'.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/welcome-and-orientation/new-to-the-forums/td-p/566648

I lived in the suburbs of Melbourne all my life and couldn't stand the rat race any longer. I now live in a coastal town with one set of traffic lights and where peak hour is waiting for 5 cars to go through the roundabout, best decision I ever made for myself. Like you, I wanted to use my inheritance to put a roof over my head that no one could take away (long story) so I looked until I found somewhere I could afford to buy outright without a mortgage and was left with only 2 options that were near water (that was a must for me). I woke up the first morning and all could hear was birds, I knew then that I had made the right decision. I have been here 11 years now, I live alone and have done on and off during my life. I tend to isolate a lot but I am not anti-social, just prefer being by myself most of the time. I have taken up gardening for the first time in my life about a year or so ago and am going to start growing my own veggies this year, probably some fruit as well in the near future.

When I moved here I was 25kgs overweight, had all those layers of protection stacked on due to the circumstances I was dealing with. I have been a vegan for about 6 years and I lost 10kg in the first year (without doing anything else to get the weight off). In the past year I have been purchasing organic and spray free fruit and veg from a farm in this vicinity and have lost another 14kg as a result. I am a healthy weight now for the first time in a very long time and feel so much better for it. I have always had sensitive skin but had not joined the dots that my internal system was sensitive to all the chemicals used in so called "modern agriculture", it's no wonder there are so many overweight people in the world.

What keeps me sane is never listening to or reading news and haven't done since I was old enough to make that decision for myself (it is all just manipulation anyway). I haven't even turned on my TV in 2 years. I read or listen to books (mainly non fiction) on subjects that interest me, I have recently taken in 2 senior cats that were needing to be rehomed, have had cats in my life for many years and enjoy their company. With the garden, I bought my favorite plants and enjoy the sights and fragrances when I out amongst them. I have to say I don't enjoy the weeding, weeds seem to survive anything and everything while the plants we love need nurturing to grow well, nature got that one backwards I think.

I need to be careful not to overdo my post as there is a limit on how long posts are, the thread can go on for years so no limit there.

Hope you are having a good weekend,

indigo

[Doors24]

Dear Michy007,

 I now know my anxiety came from my teenage years, but I never knew that until my 30’s.

(Emotionally)Unavailable parents were a big factor. Having only them to mimic off, I began to read patterns and start to dread when certain trigger’s happened. I became hyper vigilant at a young age and that never went away. I mimicked pretty unhealthy habits and behaviours. I also learned to suppress my feelings so I wouldn’t be a problem to my family. Wear a mask to the world and sit in my anxiety on my own. I believed this was the correct way to act and grow up. And I believed it was normal to people please too. Put everyone else before myself and everything would be okay. If I was kind or good, then that meant I would be loved. If I wasn’t,then I’d feel guilty. Even if it was something kind to myself. I still do if I am honest.

Like I said, I didn’t know that it wasn’t healthy or how people shouldn’t have grown up, until I got professionally diagnosed.And by then, my younger coping strategies didn’t work in my adulthood. In fact they worked against me.

 I also wasn’t aware about personalities and traits that could make me more susceptible to being more sensitive to coping skills and emotional regulation. Until someone who professionally knew about it, told me. And I keep unraveling them even to today.

It also doesn’t help if you feel like you can never talk to anybody. And by the time that you can, the people you need to talk to the most about all of it, won’t take a bar of it. There isn’t any healing or progress. Only on your side of accountability and that will only get you so far, unfortunately.

It took me a very long time to find a Mental Health Professional who was able to identify these things in me and explain them to me. And they have worked a lot with children, so they were able to clearly see patterns in my past and also see what type of person I am today. Before I met them, I didn’t know this much about myself. And they have helped to not only demystify how I cope,see and deal with things. They have advocated for me for the first time in my life. It scared me at first. I didn’t want to make a fuss or put someone else out. I didn’t think I deserved it. By they are making me see that I do deserve it. So even though you have tried, like me, you may have just not met that professional yet.

 I still feel I haven’t moved very far even with therapy and medication. I find brick walls that have absolutely no way around them. And if it was 20 years earlier and I had found the mental health professional I have now, things maybe different. Or maybe they wouldn’t. The root cause is still the same and as toxic to me as it was as a teenager. And I still can’t escape it. It really is a two steps forward,one step back way of life. And the steps take a long time to happen in between.

But I can’t give up. If I am alive, I can’t afford to stop. The world isn’t waiting for me to be ready and life still goes on everyday. All I can do is take each day as it comes and one step at a time.

 I don’t know if this has answered or helped you on your search.

But I wish you well never the less.

Doors24

[Daydreamer70]

Hi Michy007, 

Thank you for submitting this post. I just wanted to give a quick acknowledgement to something you have written in this post that I found to be really insightful and honestly a nice reminder for myself. You mentioned about anxiety, how you don't refer to it as "my anxiety" to avoid attaching to it or referring to it as something you own. you are right, anxiety is not something we own. It is temporary, no matter how intense it may feel in the moment. Attaching to it ultimately gives it more power. 

I was unknowingly up until I was maybe 17/18 struggling with anxiety. The first time I experienced a mild panic attack I had no idea what the feeling was. My frist severe panic attack came a few or so later, and it terrified me. Since then, the feeling of anxiety has come and gone. When i observe my home life or reflect on my childhood, I understand how this anxiety has manifested itself, I struggle more so with how to unlearn the thoughts and reactive behaviours around the feeling. Ruminating and people pleasing due to anxious thoughts and feelings are big ones for me. I sometimes feel like it is a life long journey, unlearning old patterns and relearning new ways of being that feel more suited to who you want to be now. Maybe the point is not to completely solve the reason we are the way we are, but rather to accept our current selves, and try to adopt new ways of being every day until that becomes the new norm. 1% better every single day, and that looks different for each and every one of us. 

I hope this helps/brings any sort of comfort. 

Kindest regards, 

Daydreamer. 

[ViolettaZ]

Hi Michy007,

I strongly agree with your point that the roots of anxiety can run deeper than they appear.

I grew up with an anxious mother and a workaholic father. My mother took on most household responsibilities and cared for me, which often led to emotional breakdowns. From a young age, I learned to read her expressions, anticipate her moods, and protect myself emotionally. She would also share emotions and negative experiences that she couldn’t process on her own, so I felt responsible for understanding and comforting her. As a result, I lived under chronic emotional stress and developed a fearful view of the world.

My father was largely absent from my upbringing due to work, which left me with a deep sense of insecurity. Personally, insecurity is the core source of my anxiety.

Understanding the root of the issue can be a double-edged sword. It may help you find solutions more easily, but it can also lead to a “victim mindset,” where anxiety triggers resentment toward one's parents. This can create a vicious cycle, harm relationships, and hinder personal growth, so it’s something to be mindful of.

What I’ve found helpful is focusing on the present and on what I can control. The past has already happened, so the question becomes: what can I do now to reduce my anxiety? For me, spending time in nature (especially breathing fresh air), and reading ( I particularly enjoy detective novels) are very helpful.

I hope this is useful to you!

Warm regards🤗
ViolettaZ

[Michy007]

Hi Daydreamer
Thanks for your message. I continue to keep trying, try harder, yet it I'm finding it continues to be an uphill battle. 
Where I live is remote, compared to what I've been used to. Long story why I'm here- yet short version is I can't afford to buy, or even rent where I'd like to live. I was working for myself for years, had to shut down, due to economy. The work I've been doing isn't working for me (support work) I keep getting mucked around with shifts, it has been causing me stress for some time now. And those 2 things (where I live, and work) are extremely important in life. Plus on top of a history of depression/anxiety in life. 
I've read others comments re feeling 'disconnected' .. that is how I've felt overall, it's even worse than it was.
I just keep trying. I keep trying to shake those feelings off, yet doesn't always work

[Eagle Ray]

Hi Michy007,

I just want to say I do relate to what you are saying including the struggle to find answers and new ways of adapting rather than older coping mechanisms. Would you say isolation is a factor where you are now? That is certainly the case for me. I am fortunate that I managed to use my share of the proceeds of the sale of my mum's house after she died to buy a unit in a small country town, but it is way more isolating than I expected.

I too struggled for many years to get any help from therapy. It's only been since I've gone with more somatic approaches that work more from the body rather than just the mind that I have made any real progress at all. It's like I have had to go right back to where the mis-attunements were from early childhood, where "caregivers" really weren't able to give care, and try to nurture my very early self from there. It's not easy, but working with those early somatic protective responses that my body and very early brain did, is at least helping me start to somewhat shift to new ways of being. Still very much a work in progress though. For me that sort of looks like listening to my body more and responding to what I need internally, rather than being so focussed on meeting the (perceived) needs and demands of the external world. I put "perceived" in brackets because I know I tend to over emphasise what I think I have to do to serve others, frequently at the expense of myself, which was a very early survival adaptation for me. It was actually necessary back then, but it's so difficult not to keep reflexively falling into it now. I imagine being a support worker that you have given a lot to others in your life. Being mucked around with shifts wouldn't help. I think those of us with early trauma often have the greatest compassion for others and will work our guts out for others, but we can remain kind of invisible to ourselves. I have found even remembering I have a body and sensing how it is feeling, has been like the beginning of remembering that I actually exist too. I've had to break it down that much to actually remember myself. I don't know if it would help you as well just to become more aware of yourself that way, but I do know too that dissociation can be present as a protective mechanism which is also something I contend with, and maybe you do as well?

Anyway, I just wanted to say I empathise and I hope you can find a balance where you can start to feel more empowered and like you have more agency with managing anxiety and depression. It may be, too, that with therapy you just haven't found a therapist who is quite the right fit. That can definitely make a difference. I do a lot of learning online myself too. I follow my intuition and explore down various rabbit holes, and I do find some answers along the way that are like pieces of the puzzle.

I know you mentioned that disconnected feeling being even worse at the moment. One thing I have found is that sometimes things do get worse just before a new insight and shift in a positive direction, like it starts to feel worse before it gets better. I just thought I'd mention that in case that is happening, like your system is really trying to resolve things and maybe is getting closer, even if it doesn't feel like it.

Take good care and listening if you want to chat more.

[Michy007]

Hi Eagle Ray, thank you for your message. And yeah it's not fun feeling stuck. Particularly when the change I believe I need means to relocate (closer to things I enjoy doing/lifestyle), and financially I don't think I can do it anytime soon. A big part of me understands why I feel stuck, yet unable to find solutions atm. For now it seems I have to drive a very long way just to have an outing that involves others. Can also highlight the 'why am I living here', yet with job uncertainly as well, I feel I just have to find ways to manage 'what is.' The 'what is' being my situation/location atm. I'd like more interests, yet unable to think of things I'd be really interested in. For now it's just hard trying to shake those feelings- feeling disconnected overall. Talking helps though- helps a lot. Appreciate your input