Marriage breakup + kids

[dl23]

Hi

So my wife and I met in high school and have been together for 24 years, married for 14 years. Over the past 8 years or so (after second child, now 😎 was born, we have had some ups and downs. I would just sometimes have a go at her about random stuff; money, clothes or food. Then she would try and talk to me and I was too pigheaded and wouldn't really listen.

Now the time has come where she has had enough and wants to sell our new and amazing house, separate into smaller houses/units and rent. We share the custody of our two kids. I am really scared about telling the kids and don't think I can be there for that process. They will be devastated.

I have been trying to say sorry to my wife via emails, text, chatting, video montages and poems but she tells me to stop and that she doesn't love me anymore. She said as I keep hassling her about getting back together, she doesn't even like me and the thought of talking to me or seeing me makes her physically ill. She also said that because I am making her angry, the shared custody will be so much harder.

I have been trying to show her over the past few weeks the new me. I have been calm, positive (as best I can in this situation) and more composed. I would sometimes shout at the kids for being silly but now I use a calm voice always (even when they test my patience).

I haven't been sleeping much and not eating hardly at all for 5 days (lost 4.5kg), due to being nauseous and anxious.

We have just communicated over email and she doesn't even want me to talk to her anymore or make dinner or hot drinks. I responded with I would like to keep doing it. I told her I still love her and apologise a lot for making her angry, when that is not my intention.

I am really scared of not being with her anymore and not living her. I love her so much, even when she verbally attacks me and says she doesn't love me anymore.

I can't rely on my parents as they are away and my wife and my parents never really got along. They kind of caused a lot of the tension and some of the reasons we fought.

How am I going to get through this?

[ecomama]

Hi dl23

Yeah I smashed it! I studied Family Law for 2y beforehand. He saw lawyers 15y before me lol.
I won what no one said I could.

It was a magnificent victory lol, he was hell on legs.

I wish for you what you wish for yourself ofcourse. I hope W turns around and says it was all a mistake.
And things mend beautifully!

In the interim, knowledge is power.

Here the kids wanted to stay in their home. Close to lots of public transport, their schools and their friends.

Our beautiful family memories, mostly without exH lol, none with.
VERY different situation to yours!

TBH I think if you crunched the numbers and worked it all out,
Then presented a fait accompli that YOU will buy her out,
you might have a W more willing to talk to you!

She has her plan all worked out by the sounds of things.
If you do too and it's plans to buy the place, I think she'll get the shock of her life lol.

IF it need come up at all and only when the timing's right.

Bestest wishes!

EM

NB: Just FYI If you share 50% care then you get 50% Family Payments if you qualify and THIS can contribute to your 'earnings' for the Bank since your children are still young. 🙂

[dl23]

Hi EM

My wife said she would speak to me after real estate agent went through on Friday but I'm still waiting. She is organising things slowly to present house for sale, a decision she made on her own without speaking to me, just telling me. I am wondering if I wait for her to actually speak to me about house and let her keep 'organising' the house for sale. I am not sure how she will react about this news. She did tell me before if she had the money to rent, she would just move out.

I don't think I qualify for family payments. I checked before and I am pretty sure my kids are too old, 8 and 12.

I really need to crunch the numbers on exactly what I need to pay for. Unfortunately my car has to go. No more 4wding :(.

I am working on my side hustles setup while on holidays with the kids. Hopefully it generates income sooner rather than later.

Thanks again

dl23

[Guest909]

Hi dl23

A few posts back you mentioned that your parents' loaned you some money to buy the house. You also mentioned that you had paid back some of the loan. This is of relevance because it is a marital debt. If you do end up selling the house, any money left over after paying out the home loan, the car loan and the pool loan can and should be used to pay back your parents. All of these loans are marital debt; they are a joint responsibility. The residual cash (if any) would then go into the property pool for division.

In regard to the house, there is no guarantee that you will be able to keep it, even if you could afford too. The courts will often allow the primary (parental) care giver to remain in the house if that person has the financial means is pay the mortgage.

The above is just the tip of the iceberg. You will need a formal parenting agreement, a child support agreement and possibly some form of spousal maintenance.

Apart from the emotional turmoil of separation, the legal problems that ensue are a mine field. That is why legal advice is so, so important. Legal advice does not mean the marriage is dead; it is just advice that will allow you to make an informed decision.

If you sell the house now you are putting the cart before the horse. The sale will also kill any possibility of the reconciliation.

Something to think about!

[Betternow]

Hello dl23

I’ve been following your thread and I can see you have received a lot of solid advice by experienced people. I don’t want to repeat what you have already read but I would like to add a couple of points. Like others here, I too have been through a marriage break up with children. I too was blindsided by my wife’s decision to suddenly end the marriage. I understand the confusion and pain.

Here us what I learnt over two painful years of trying to keep my family intact.

1. When a spouse has emotionally disengaged from the marriage union there is nothing you can say or do to change their mind. Your wife is being very clear in her intentions and you are wasting energy and time trying to change her decision. It’s tough to hear, I know.

2. The more you nag your wife to attend counselling the more you are hardening her resolve to end the marriage. I know it sounds counter intuitive but to have any chance of remaining friends with your wife, you need to cooperate. That doesn’t mean roll over and give up your rights. More on that in the next point.

3. Under Australian Family Law, it is strongly advised that you seek an experienced Family Law solicitor. This not an option, it is a MUST HAVE. Any private agreement you make with your wife on asset distribution could possibly be worthless if it does not conform to basic court principles. I urge you before you start selling houses etc, you obtain formal legal advice. If I was advising your wife, I would say the same thing.

4. Do not allow your wife (or anyone else) to rush you. Follow your solicitors advice and think carefully over your options.

I and many other posters to this forum have experienced your situation or similar. Learn from our mistakes and I do hope your healing process is as smooth as possible.

[dl23]

Thanks Mr Paul.

Some great advice there. I will ring up legal aid this week to have a chat.

I think I will still book a marriage counselling appointment and tell her when it is. I will tell her it would be good for everyone involved to clear the air as she doesn't really want to talk to me about and I have unanswered questions about 'why'.

[dl23]

Thanks Betternow.

I will be making some phone calls today, legal and counselling.

I want to be able to keep the house for the kids, to keep the door open for a possible reconciliation, so I don't have to restart with renting to build a house deposit and a lot of blood, sweat and tears went into it.

[ecomama]

Hi dl23

Catch your breath.

W said she would move out if she had the money. To me that's a big sign she's sticking with her decision.

She can do anything she wants to get the house ready for sale.
She can't sell without your signature.
I would NOT sign.

You need strong legal advice - strong ie pay for an hour to get answers to all your clearly thought out questions. The free hour is just a ramble you can look up online anyway.

To maximise my hour: I got a big note pad, wrote a question at the top of each page, left room to write the lawyer's answer.

Your children qualify for Family Payments up to 18yo, moreso as a single parent considering your sole income. Centrelink phone line can help you there.

There are some variations between states re: Family Law, so we may be advising you from different states IDK. But the core is the same.

I understand W has a job?
You won't have to worry about spousal maintenance. I followed countless cases, its seldom awarded now anyway unless there's millions at stake & one spouse was a home maker. exH tried to go for this, he was laughed out of Court by the Judge.

Child support is greatly reduced with the 50/50 shared care you plan. It can be negated with a "Private agreement". You can phone Child Support Agency about all of this at any point in the future.

In Family Law YOU get first option to buy the family home that's how I did it.
Whether you tell W that's what you're working on, is up to you.

ABSOLUTELY parent's debt comes out of marital assets but Courts could care less about a $5k debt to parents all these years later. Mediation.

Courts just herd people like cattle. See squabbling parents and want them to agree & get out.

SO if you can work out everything WITHOUT going to Court, you stand in better stead IMO.

You can do 99% between you & get it Court stamped.

This is where Relationships Australia (RA) for Mediation comes in. You don't have to engage a lawyer ie pay thousands to engage them. You can get their "spot help" ie pay for an hour each time.
RA aims for:
* a signed Parenting Plan (which you can lodge in Court to turn into Consent Orders re: parenting) and
* a Binding Financial Agreement (which is Settlement). Ask Lawyer about what to do to make it Binding.

You can agree, not sign anything, take paperwork to Family Lawyer, have them look over it, make adjustments if necessary, take it back to Mediation. Mediation is not a ONE appt deal.

Keep 2 steps ahead of W. Know your rights.

EM

[Guest909]

Hi EM

"I understand W has a job?
You won't have to worry about spousal maintenance. I followed countless cases, its seldom awarded now anyway unless there's millions at stake & one spouse was a home maker. exH tried to go for this, he was laughed out of Court by the Judge."

It gives me much satisfaction to hear your take on spousal maintenance. This is something that had me concerned about my upcoming arbitration hearing.

Like you, I did my homework; but I keep getting a lot of conflicting legal advice. To my way of thinking three judges can hear the same case and come up with three different orders. Family law is a bit of a lottery; there is no way of knowing (with any certainty) how the judges (arbitrators) will rule.

I'll be happy when it is done and dusted.

Cheers

[dl23]

Hi Em

Yes, my wife has a job. So no need for spousal maintenance.

I am having a day of phone calls today.

1. Ring counsellor for a chat and look at booking an appoinment. Give my wife the details via text tomorrow and see what she says. Only problem is I have no one to care for my youngest son (no family where we live - oldest son can stay home but can't keep them together home alone). Will ask counsellor if he can sit in waiting area with iPad and earphones.

2. Ring Legal Aid to get more general info

3. Ring centrelink and get info regarding family payments (that could be a long wait)

4. Ring the child support agency

5. Ring Relationships Australia

I am not sure if I have missed anything or anyone and not completely 100% on what I am asking in each phone call.

I am gathering notes from all the great posts on this thread.

Thanks

dl23

[dl23]

So I just talked to the home loan specialist at my bank and my borrowing capacity is only 75%. It looks like I am going to lose my house, unless I can come up with a second job/side hustle within the next couple of months to show my increase in income. I highly doubt my parents would go guarantor for $200,000, seeing they turned us down years ago and they are retired.

Depression is spiraling again. Appetite hasn't improved. Weight loss continues in dramatic fashion.

Maybe the silver lining is I will be closer to my kids, the pool loan will get wiped at (if we make money on sale) and few credit card loans we have will be cleared. I just can't see myself losing my house, as it would've been my saving grace in this terrible time.