how to deal with a brother and his family who don't want to know mum and i

[David35]

Since mum got cancer a few years ago, my bro, his wife and family have virtually cut us off. We have the occasional Easter and Xmas but nothing like it used to be. There is a lot of hurt caused by their lack of support, something we both find hard to ignore. So he does ring now and then but the care factor has almost reached zero. Mum regularly balls her eyes out with a sense of loss and disgust by his lack of compassion and I'm the son/carer who has to deal with it. Mum is free of cancer now, but given that Mum has 3 grandkids who she rarely sees, how are we to do deal with this? The Christian way is to forgive, but the hurt with some of the things that were said and the icy coldness on their behalf is something I've never experienced. It's also coincided with mum cutting back on her generosity, because what's the point? We feel discarded all because mum got cancer. It's got so bad mum is considering changing her will, the complete lack of concern for her and myself is so bad. His wife hasn't asked once how she was coping in the 2 years she had cancer treatment. I know it happens in families but I just didn't think this level of coldness would occur in ours.

[white knight]

Hi David and Indigo

The theories on this abhorrent behaviour is bot interesting and common. To seek out these reasons is for me anyway, a cleansing experience even a feeling of vindication.

I too have had my sister act in this way last xmas when she used her adult daughters against me in a manner that resulted in me losing all 3 from my life. All 3 rang me following a debate my sister had with my daughter. I stayed out of it but that doesnt help with they ring you demanding I take their side. Result? I lose 3 of my relatives.

Now, I'm experience din this stuff regardless of being the victim. That means you can know the theory but that doesn't help to avoid becoming the victim. So lets see the theory-

• Silence. David, your SIL wont answer her phone. It 1/ hurts that you cant resolve issues with her. Her knowing that with her silence is a form of narcissism. Google- narcissism silence. Silence if someone needs to use it to distance themselves or cant defend themselves is a different matter. Silence to harm  knowing that is will hurt a person is narcissistic
• Emotional blackmail. My mother was an master but even expert tyrants dont win in the long run. Using children by not sending pics is a classic method to again hurt you and your mother. 
• "You'll have to ask her". I feel a little for your brother David because of the dynamics of his marriage. He knows that to pressure his wife is dealing with fire. He possibly is balancing it all enough to remain a family himself. Just my guess.
• Poisoning the minds of their children. Classic narcissistic triangulation. Many videos on this on YouTube. Narcissists will gather people like ammunition. Eg my sister knew that to reap in her daughters to agree with her that she would gamble I will buckle if I knew I'd lose all 3. What they didnt know was that 1. it was not my argument 2. I dont agree with the triangulation technique ganging up on me and my daughter. If I did she'd have 4 against her including her father!! 3. That if you have a belief you should stick to it.
• Number 3 is interesting. We all have principles, so should we ignore them? No. Should we support tyrants? No. Then for me the answer if hurtful but clear- accept that I've lost them.

David- this means if you accept that you personally have lost your brothers heart it would be easier than tormenting yourself with all the "why's" as to his and his wife's behaviour. Make the best you can do. Continue the support of her as best you can.

Can talk more if needed.

TonyWK

[David35]

I'm sorry to hear you have been through this also. Kids are very impressionable and to warp their thinking in this way is incredibly manipulative.

Thanks that's very insightful. I got called "creepy" both by nephew and his dad (my bro) for looking up my nephew's facebook page because I hadn't seen him in about 18 months and just wondered what he looked like or what he'd been up to. The lack of respect and gratitude for things we had done to support them is astounding. That's why mum cut off helping them out. In retaliation, they cut off catching up with us (we used to have takeaway nights years ago, or go out to lunch - all at mum's expense mind you...)

With regards to my bro, I think he's stuck in the middle of doing what's right and doing what is necessary to please her. Unfortunately, that means his loyalties lie with his wife and that means siding with her ostracising us. We've let the door open for him to walk through, but he never does apart from a few phone calls here and there. I just never thought this thing would occur in my family.

She used to always send pics of the kids' milestones. That has all stopped since mum got cancer. She used to talk to mum and I over the phone. Same thing. It's the stone cold silence that hurts. Her mum passed away recently so we sent a card and a text message. No response. We asked my brother if she got the card "Oh it was all pretty busy". They have an answer for everything.

The ironic thing is that we both could have been a big support for her, given that I'd lost a parent 7 years earlier and mum has so much compassion. But they and their kids have shown that they simply don't enjoy our company any longer. Last mother's day the girls huddled in a corner like we were strangers. We've concluded like you have, that it's all her doing. She simply doesn't want anything to do with us anymore and that is hard to accept. We have done nothing but help them and this is the thanks we get. It's been tough on both of us. Thanks for your understanding.

[indigo22]

Hi David and Tony,

David, you reminded me of something when you mentioned Christmas. There had been so much going on with the "family" for such a long time, back stabbing, accusations etc., that one year I just decided that I would refuse to play "happy families" with an unhappy family at Christmas ever again. I would no longer participate in their hypocritical behaviour and said to my parents that I would see them on Boxing Day instead.

It had been like that for long enough, so I would go out to a restaurant that didn't recognise Christmas (Turkish or Lebanese usually) with a friend and have a lovely meal and relax instead of being around all the pretense and working myself into a state about it. That may sound selfish to some, but for me, it was a case of emotional necessity for my sanity. I have a very strong sense of ethics and I won't break those to appease someone else.

I find it very sad that there are people in this world that will use their children as a shield for their own failings, but unfortunately those are the type of people we have all had to deal with - until the day comes when we decide it's enough.

Tony, I am not sure what your sister was thinking (or her daughters for that matter), she can't know you very well if she thought you would turn on your own daughter. Narcissists always think they have the upper hand, but that's because they assume that everyone else thinks the way they do. Thank goodness they are wrong about that.

Take care both,

indigo

[David35]

Indigo,

Years ago, mum dad and I did the same thing. We spent Christmas together rather than with them,partly because it was my birthday, partly because we were sick of my sister-in-laws family whose company we have never enjoyed because they are downright snobs. They would muck us around with arrangements leaving it until the last few weeks to let us know. So we organised our own lunch. .Anyway, a few days after Xmas when we caught up with them at their place, she barely had any food for us, wouldn't talk to us, look as in the eyes. Nothing. They both took insult to the fact that we wanted to just do our own thing. That's how childish they both behaved.

So about 10 years later, mum and I are doing the same thing this year. Mum and I both decided that rather than mix with a bunch of hypocrites who pretend to care about us for a few hours, but couldn't care less for the next 12 months, why not get out of that toxic environment. The downside is we don't get to see the kids, but they treat us like strangers anyway. The upside is we don't have to get all stressed about trying to please my brother and his wife who are very pretentious when it comes to social arrangements. I'm just tired of the pretense that we're all okay, when we're not. Bear in mind, in the 20 years or so they've been married, not once have they ever spent time at our  house with our family. It's her way or the highway.

The classic was last mother's day when the kids were standing around and she says "What can we do?" I Said "Just care".. Dead silence. For some people, I don't think they know how to, unless there's something in it for them.

On a good note, my brother rang today and said that he did care about us. I think like Tony says, he's stuck in the middle of caring, but not being disloyal to his wife. Of course, this brought mum undone. She blames herself for this rift in the family by getting cancer. The self-loathing and decline in her self worth has been hard to watch. Especially when it has been caused by your own family members. I've always said we'll leave the door open for him and his kids but I'm not sacrificing my principles, like you said, to appease someone else. Their behaviour is their responsibility, not mine. I just hope for mum's sake she gets to see the kids at some stage.

The other problem is that I just am very wary of them now. My trust has reached zero and as much as I try to forgive them for the hurt they have caused, it's hard to forget it.

[David35]

I needed to amend that. They haven't spent Christmas at our place in the 20 years we've known his wife.

[indigo22]

Hi David,

Just checking in, how you are feeling about all this now, are you and your Mum dealing ok?

indigo