Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

[Tams20]

I’ve been struggling with depression lately and have been experiencing some very dark moods. I haven’t missed a day of work or caring for my family, even though I barely hold it together some days and my weekends are usually spent recovering. I’ve been on SSRIs for a few months that I feel aren’t working that well and have also scheduled a review with my GP this week. Am also going to ask for counselling just so that I can talk to someone about my issues, as I am not one for burdening friends and family with my problems.

Just recently I have started fantasising about a particular method of suicide. Quite graphic thoughts and planning (I won’t go into detail) that has gotten me so concerned that I now take steps so that I physically couldn’t do it. I don’t actually believe that I could do it, I don’t actually think that I am suicidal, but on some days I feel quite reckless about it, almost as if I’m daring myself to do it. I almost enjoy the thought of it. After the urge has passed I think if my kids and I feel like the worst person in the world.

Is this a common thing for when you’re depressed? Is it perhaps related to the medication?

Thanks.

[Tams20]

Hi Birdy,

That’s great you’re both still good friends and you both have ended up in a great relationships - that’s a happy ending! Best of both worlds 😊

Unfortunately for my friend and I our marriages aren’t what you’d call ‘great’ so there may not be a happy ending for either of us. But it is what it is I guess.

I just wish she’d trust me and let me back in again as her friend. A proper friend, not someone to flirt and be friendly with among the safety of a group, then retreat from afterwards. That doesn’t feel right. That feels like I’m being used.

I’ve never done anything that should cause her not to trust that I’ll respect her decision that nothing will happen. And for the past 5 weeks I’ve played by her rules: ignored what happened between us, stopped contacting her all the time, taken the pressure off her, given her space - I have been perfectly behaved. Yet still she’s wary of me. Or wary of herself. Maybe she doesn’t trust herself. I will add ‘lack of trust’ to the cons. I’ve already got ‘inconsistent behaviour’ on there.

Maybe we never really were friends? Although it felt like we were. And close friends at that. Now I’m doubting it.

I love the cons list of your 23 year old self 😆. Maybe I’ll start a second list with really low level stuff on it. Being childish and petty about her might actually help me. There are a lot of little things that irritate me!

Tams

[Birdy77]

Dear Tams,

Yes, add lack of trust to the list, for sure. I agree, that would feel like you are being used when she flirts and is comfy around you when with the group and retreats from one on one contact. Maybe she doesn't trust herself, but either way, it's disrespectful of the friendship you've had (and have?) ... and confusing. Which is not a good thing in a friendship of any description, in my opinion.

Definitely do a separate list with that low level/petty/ irritation stuff, it works a treat, believe me! Because, yes, they're little things, but they become big things when /if that person becomes your significant other and you have to put up with bad hats or possible clothespegs cooking along with the potatoes every day. That becomes the stuff of your life.

Even though you are each in less-than-happy martiages now, that is not to say that you won't get a happy ending. In lots of ways, maybe you're not meant to end up together, but that does not mean there is not something/someone else out there for you, maybe not right now, but further down the track.

🌻birdy

[Tams20]

Hi Birdy,

I’ve been working on my list. Still 50-50 but I also went through and struck out the positives that are being affected by the way she is behaving towards me (because I can’t call them positives if she’s no longer doing them, right?) and then the list becomes more damning.

I saw her at soccer yesterday. I was a bit annoyed at her for bailing on me for a social event on Saturday, not because I wanted her there but because I absolutely knew she would bail and it felt like her even saying yes in the first place was so that she could pull out at the last minute to put me in my place. I had also made the mistake of contacting her to try to make plans prior to the event, which allowed her to no doubt feel satisfied that I do still care, but be evasive and keep me at arm’s length to show me she doesn’t feel the same way. Far out. I feel like I set myself back weeks in my recovery. I handed back some of the power over the situation. Could have kicked myself.

Anyway I was initially pretty cool with her at soccer yesterday. No extra attention, no really attempt to speak to her even, almost ignoring her completely... then I felt bad because she seemed confused and started clinging to another friend of ours, so I backed it off a bit. And then I was friendly but absolutely not flirty.

What can I say, I’m too nice.... to my own detriment really.

I’m so stuck as to how I should cope with this. I’m half thinking I want to still chase her but also thinking I should cut her off completely as an option and even as a close friend. Keep it casual. Care as little for her as she does for me. Why should I invest more emotionally? What am I getting back?

Anyway I was also having a bit of a flirt with a younger woman in a different team, an out lesbian who is single and very confident, she appears to be a little bit interested in me and that has provided a bit of a distraction and excitement! She’s far too young but she’s pretty hot so it gave my ego a bit of a lift. Just what I need right now! 😆

Tams

[Tams20]

OK so I played soccer with my friend last night and things were good. We were happy to see each other, we were warm and friendly toward each other. There was nothing weird or awkward about it, we weren’t avoiding each other or wary of each other, it just felt comfortable. It was nice. I decided that I would just treat her the same way that I did as if we were just close friends and nothing else. And it worked well. She seems to be doing the same thing.

I also didn’t feel too much, it seems to be fading. Last couple of times I’ve seen her there hasn’t been that ‘electricity’ in the air. I’ve noticed she’s not so focused on me either. I think it is just running it’s course. Which is good because it’s getting in the way of our friendship and that is what I miss the most. I’m sure she does too! We were such a bit part of each other’s lives. We were close. I want that back again.

She is making an effort with me. I need to keep doing the same. Time and patience. And then we’ll be ok. I’m actually pretty happy that we’ve gotten through this - that I’ve gotten through this. I can’t wait to tell my psych, she said we’d be unlikely to get through with the friendship still intact. That it would probably blow up on us, one way or another.

It helps that we both wanted to maintain the friendship, even when things were difficult and tense between us the desire to keep it was still there. And it is quite comforting to know that she feels something for me that is more than just friendship, it’s our little secret and it’s a nice feeling. If we can get the trust back we could be good friends for life! Hope so.

Anyway, Birdy thanks for talking it through with me. It was really helpful being able to seek advice from someone who has been through similar. And particularly helpful to hear that you managed to retain your close friendship - that really gave me hope! Thank you 😊

Tams

[Birdy77]

Hi Tams 😊

Reading your post of 29 July in which you said you felt like you had set your recovery back by weeks, and then reading your next post, it sounds like things resolved themselves in your head and heart? I am hoping that maybe it was matter of cooling down after the annoyance of her bailing on you after saying "yes" to the social thing when you *knew* she would be a no show? You sounded so much more settled in your most recent post.

How have you been feeling since then? How was it at soccer this past week? (I've been off the air since i last wrote to you, that's why i didn't write earlier).

You mentioned having a flirt with the younger woman at soccer, which boosted your self esteem. Do you feel that you might be craving a relationship with a woman? I mean, besides the thing with your friend - do you feel it might be bigger than that? No need to answer here, but just wondered if the thing with your friend is a manifestation of a bigger or more all encompassing identity that you may be wanting to express? I might be totally off track.

I hope you had some good feedback from your psych.

It's my pleasure talking to you, it can be helpful just bouncing off another who has been in a similar spot. Any time 😊.

🌻birdy

[Tams20]

Hi Birdy,

The flirting was good at the time because it helped me to divert my attention away from her. At the time I was still having strong feelings for her and it helped me to deal with that. I don’t think I’m looking for a relationship with a woman, I just wanted it with this particular woman 😕 A bit sad really, but I suppose I should take some comfort in knowing that my feelings were reciprocated, that the longing and confusion wasn’t just being felt by me. That under different circumstances we just would have gotten together. Whether that ended up to be good or bad, at least we would have done something about it. But I can’t dwell on that now. Need to move on.

Things have been good between us lately, I think our friendship is actually a proper friendship now, instead of some weird ‘courtship’ like it was before. We had to drop off some things to a friend who is having a baby soon, a group present and it turned out that only the two of us were available to go (although there were other options that neither of us took up, I think we both recognised the need for some alone time). She drove, 40mins each way, and it was fine. We didn’t talk about it at all, we just chatted as friends do. It was a normality test and we both passed. I suppose you could say that we’re ignoring the elephant in the room, but it’s already been acknowledged so I think that’s ok. And it’s getting smaller. It was a bit awkward when she showed up and my door, and when we got into the car together. But not for long, felt comfortable pretty soon.

Since then it’s like the wariness has disappeared. Trust is back. It doesn’t feel risky, the tension has gone. At soccer on Sunday I did something careless, a catastrophic brain fade, that actually caused quite a bad injury to her (my boot to her face 😱). It was a mistake by both of us but she came off much worse. She was angry with me initially and I let her be angry. At the break I sat with my arm around her on the bench and she was so upset. She looked so messed up. I just wanted to comfort her, I felt so bad. Before I went back on the field she called me back over and gave me a big hug. A long hug, a big squeeze. It was lovely. And I think it was more than just forgiving me for the injury. It was everything.

Since then I’ve called her twice to check on her (concussion, whiplash) and we’ve had long conversations (23mins and 32mins) and it’s just felt so normal and comfortable. So nice to have my friend back, as a proper friend.

Tams

[Tams20]

OK so my friend and I finally had a falling out. It had been coming for a while. Things were just too difficult, our feelings were getting in the way. I was trying hard to maintain a friendship, she seemed to always be resisting it. Whenever we’d message she’d be holding back. Disinterested. Withholding any warmth or affection from me but piling it on everyone else. Just when I would decide that it was all over I’d see her and I could see that she was still attracted to me. And I was still feeling attraction to her. I’d be drawn back in for another round with her. Stone cold sober in her house one day with a friend and her husband both a couple of metres away, we hadn’t seen each other for a while. We were talking, suddenly she’s looking at me and I’m looking at her and we stop talking, both lost in each other’s eyes. Any eye contact between us was loaded, always a problem when drunk but was becoming an issue when sober too.

We had started bickering out of frustration. Sexual tension, jealousy, the impossible situation we’re in. We had a massive fight when drunk late last year where all of our frustrations just came out. She raged at me for almost an hour. Every time we were drunk it felt like an argument was just around the corner. We are strongly attracted to each other and can’t stay away, the frustration of that has taken its toll.

She told me two weeks ago (after several drinks) that she was sorry for being a bad a bad friend. That she is struggling to cope and has treated me badly when she could see I’ve been making a big effort for us to move on. I was so happy! An apology from her is rare, also admitting she’s still not coping but wanting to be a better friend. Wonderful! Except that after that she was still an a-hole to me. No change at all. None. So I started messaging her last weekend, friendly at first but with each rude and disinterested response from her it escalated. I called her out on her behaviour. She didn’t like it. It ended with her saying we should call it quits and me agreeing.

Two days later I was in a weak frame of mind and apologised in a rational way (not begging) and asked if we could have a break instead. Because we have mutual friends. She agreed to a break, said she’s not sure how long for, and told me not to contact her any more. That was a week ago and I’m doing pretty well so far. I’m going to see how I go. I may not need her in my life at all.

So much drama and disappointment, we had a chance to salvage a friendship.

[Croix]

Dear Tams20~

Welcome back. Do you mind if I take a long view? When you first came here you had suicidal thoughts , even to the planning stage. A fragile and even frightening state of mind.

Now you are a different person. It is still true you struggle with a difficult relationship which swings from one extreme to the other, but now seem almost philosophical if it does not work out.

Trying to get over someone you feel deeply for, particularly in an on again off again situation where much remains unspoken is no small thing, however reading your words over time I get the impression that while not happy you are capable of handling it.

You mentioned before flirting with others helped for a while, what do you think might help now?

Croix (who is definitely not going to play on the same soccer field as you!)

[Tams20]

Croix! How are you? I was thinking of you when I posted here yesterday, wondering how you were going. And Mary. I’ve missed talking to you both! Great to hear from you ☺️

Yes I was reflecting on my coping skills the other day. As you say I was a mess to start with, in a dark place, partly because of the effect that my friendship with this woman was having on me, my crush on her. It was amazing to find out it was mutual - or so I thought. 9 months later and it’s been so difficult. I was never allowed to talk about it with her, she’s been inconsistent, she lied to a mutual friend about what was going on. She’d go from being distant, to basically coming on to me, then distant again. Just as I was thinking I need to stop with her she’d be back again, the attraction between us so strong. I’d become hopeful again. Then she’d retreat and I’d be left feeling hurt and confused.

It’s been an awful cycle, over and over. Her lack of coping skills has been difficult for me. To hear her admit that she’s not coping and apologise for treating me badly was wonderful but I’m wondering whether it was genuine. Or just another example of her lowered inhibitions while drunk, of something that she cannot follow through with in the cold light of day.

A few of my friends have been trying to get me to break the cycle with her. They can see the games she’s been playing (intentional or not) and the effect it’s had on me. They want me to run away. My psych also said the same thing. I’ve opened up to people about this and have had great support, which has helped me a lot.

I guess I am rather philosophical about this now. I’ve had plenty of time to reflect on everything. I think I’m better off for it, I’ve strengthened a lot of other friendships and am much more likely to reveal things about myself. I’m in a better place after all of this, I’m not sure she could say the same. Her poor coping skills and unkind treatment of me has left a few of our mutual friends wondering what sort of person she really is.

I’m in a pretty good place with my marriage now too, as I’ve started pulling away from her I’ve noticed other aspects of my life improving. Net effect has been positive 😊 I’ve coped so well, considering my BP2. I’m quite impressed with myself really!

It would be nice to be able to retain a friendship with her - we were close friends once, we’re very compatible as friends. But if she can’t move on and allow that to happen I’m ok with that. I’ve done all I can.

[Tams20]

In saying all of that yesterday, I’m actually struggling a lot today. Missing her immensely. Full of regret for causing this bust up. Wanting to make contact with her again but knowing that it’s too soon and that I’ll just end up disappointed and feeling worse if I do. Hoping that we will manage to remain friends, that the niece time I see her we will be ok and maybe even happy to see each other after a break in contact.

Feeling very sad. I know it will pass, but today is not a good day.