Running out of ideas

[interloper]

I am getting desperate and have no idea what to do. My issue has been built up over 15-20 years of growing up and ruminating as an adult.

I want to proven wrong but unfortunately it never happens.

It is my belief that life is completely devoid of meaning. Objectively, there can literally not be meaning to anyone's life because there is no way to have lasting or significant impact. It is simply an issue of not having a viable option available. Subjectively, people can create their own meaning, but it is false and empty. Subjective meaning is an oxymoron because what I find meaningful may be completely meaningless to every other person, which by any measure is meaningless.

Anyway, I have raised this with friends and family and they simply shrug and make platitudes about their meaningless life and that they enjoy it.

I am sick of feeling bleak and listless. I have sought help but nothing has worked.

I live in a regional town and options are limited. I have seen a few gps but they are stretched and it doesn't seem like the forum to discuss big ideas. I have seen a psych who after two sessions could only offer the advice of writing a "gratitude list" and to find hobbies. She simply didn't understand the depth of what I was trying to tell her and that I was a "bit upset about life". I saw a councillor who literally told me he couldn't help me and to not come back. I am out of options in my local area. I also tried some meds but they made me feel worse.

I feel even worse now and that I am spiralling out of control because I don't even have the hope that treatment can help.

I've had blood tests (nothing to pin this on), I eat healthily, exercise regularly, am in a stable relationship, have stable employment, no financial issues, etc. My issue is the belief that life doesn't matter and don't care anymore. I actually think there isn't anything defective in my belief, but don't want to be sad about life anymore. I feel like I've woken up, seen the truth, and cannot unsee it.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[White_Rose]

Dear Interloper

You sound very sad, hopeless and convinced there is nothing worth living for. I have some comments but first I welcome you to Beyond Blue. The people who write in here all have different stories and hurts they want to heal, so you are not alone with your feelings. Thanks for your story.

I am not a mental health expert and my comments come from my experience. These experiences may not mean much to you, because they are part of my life's journey not yours. So having got that out of the way I can talk about my observations.

As I have said, people write here about their world and others respond and share their experiences. Some are helpful, some are not. Only you can decide what to do with your life and whether BB people can help and support you.

You say life does not matter so I ask, why are making such an effort with your life? You eat healthy, exercise, stable relationship etc. Why do this if life doesn't matter? I suspect all these things are important to you and do have an impact on you. Why else do you bother?

Feeling bleak and listless is a symptom of depression. Whether or not you are depressed I cannot tell you, but I can make suggestions about your lack of motivation. No I'm not going to tell you to get on with your life. I imagine you have heard this a lot. I have a different perspective.

You sound as though you have thought a great deal about life and have a genuinely enquiring mind. This listlessness you speak of is frustrating and often painful. It brings self-doubt into the equation, feelings of self-disgust and pain. Everyone here is intimately acquainted with this. Have you looked around the site and the huge numbers of posts here? I see you have already answered one person. Congratulations.

Can you continue to write to other folk here? So many times when I respond to someone I find I am talking as much to myself as others. And it helps, big time. Being interested in the struggles of someone else can move the focus away from our problems. Instead of trying to work out where and who we are, we can leave that situation and reach out to support others. I suggest you try this. It's not a smarta..e answer, but one that has a proven track record.

Shift the focus of your life and look at others struggling. It may sound like being a goody but it really works. I have found my way back several times on BB. My experience, yes. You want suggestions so have a go at this. NOTE: It may take a little time. Please keep in touch.

Mary

[interloper]

Hi Mary.

To tell you the truth, I don't know why I maintain the things I do in my life. I guess I exhibit some symptoms of depression but not others. I just go through the motions though and maintain stability in my life so it doesn't get worse.

Ultimately, to me it literally doesn't matter if I help others or not. It literally doesn't matter what I do day to day, year to year. It literally doesn't matter what anyone does ever. We are on a meaningless journey to nowhere with a bunch of people that seem as relevant and important as characters in a long forgotten book.

Any suggestions that anyone ever makes about being positive is ended with the question why? Why do anything at all when it simply doesn't matter. How does anyone find meaning in anything at all?

I guess my question to the forum is what do I do when my worldview is crippling, I have tried medication and talk based therapies with a few different people, and my options are limited in my small regional town?

[Dr_Kim]

Hi interloper, I’m going to go out on a limb here and pose a theory that you are not necessarily just depressed . But you are tackling some of the most difficult philosophical questions that man has ever posed for himself and you are drowning in lack of clear answers - which is because there aren’t any!!

Brilliant minds have been turning these very same questions over for millennia .. starting from the ancient greeks and right up to the modern existential philosophers and therapists .

I wonder if you would feel comforted to be in the company of people who have the same enquiring mind as you do ?

May I suggest a couple of options? Start with some reading on the topic .. Maybe Alain de Botton’s “Consolations in Philosophy” ( it gives a brief few introduction to various philosophical schools of thought but its super easy to read) . Then try the classic from Viktor Frankl “Mans Search For Meaning”. He, together with other luminaries like Irving Yalom, wrote about this very issue and I think you will feel some comfort and clarity in their same exploration.

To have "face to face“ discussions, try things like http://www.theschooloflife.com/melbourne/ or a short philosophy course ??

There are even therapists who call themselves “ existential therapists “ ( sort of 1/2 therapy , 1/2 philosophy) who discuss this topic in depth with people !

Its a different tangent to tackling your thoughts , but I hope that it might open possibilities for you.

[White_Rose]

Hello Interloper

What a terrific post from Dr Kim. While I have read a great deal of philosophy I never thought about how this may help you. Would you like to start a discussion on BB when you have read some of Dr Kim's suggestions? I would also need to read about this specific area of philosophy. But let's start the journey if you would like this.

Mary

[Bruce7]

I understand your position. It' similar to mine. I'm getting better at living with futility and there are probably many reasons for this. I do have to do mindful activities, especially art, on a daily basis...

[Guest_322]

Hi Interloper,

I realise that I'm very late to your thread. Thank you so much for putting your thoughts out there. I think Dr Kim had some potentially really helpful suggestions that are worthwhile exploring.

I have no advice or wisdom to impart. All I can say is that I can empathise with those thoughts as I have struggled with your line of thinking on and off over the years.

I don't have an answer or a "fix", but as Dr Kim has touched on, I have found immense comfort in philosophy. So maybe there's something out there for you too. Not so much "answers" but a way to cope and feel less alone.

Ironically, I've personally found a lot of comfort from existentialist philosophers.

All the best,

Dottie x

[Guest_322]

Hi again,

About your friends and their platitudes about how they enjoy their lives.

Here's my 2 cents worth. For some people, I think that questions about the meaning of life and that ilk are too confronting hence their platitudes (or maybe they genuinely enjoy their lives).

I'm 20 years old and have grappled with those questions on and off for at least half my life (I was a very, erm, intense child and teenager to say the very least ha, ha).

When my teenage self tried to express my distress and confusion to my friends, they either reassured me that life was indeed meaningful or accused me of being "pessimistic." I think they kind of missed the point.

So during the break between year 12 and uni, I signed up for a short non-award philosophy course that was run by a uni.

It helped to meet like minded people (even though, aside from 1 other person), everyone else was about 3 times my age.

Point is there's someone out there who "gets it." You probably just haven't met him/her/them yet. But I can appreciate- as you mentioned yourself- being in a regional area, courses and services would be more limited.

Sorry you're doing it tough.

Dottie x

[Bruce7]

I got to the point where I felt I had nothing left to lose. So I've stopped doing many of the things in life that come under the 'maintainance' category. I've severed relationships that for the most part were making me more depressed. I felt I could understand why some people 'walk away' from everything.

So how am I going after taking this leap into the 'void'. I'm going well, so long as I don't drink too much... I've done so many things the professionals and the 'experts on everything' have told me to not do. I've tappered off to zero, all my medication. No therapy and a lot of solitude, most of it positive. Art, exercise and some post-modern fiction. And some mindfulness, present moment thinking, and reading of....(it seems ancient cultures and philosophers understood futility!)

It seems to me that the system is set up to support the system. How could it be otherwise. I see life as entirely ridiculous and futile.....I'm not so troubled by this anymore, especially as I adjust my existence to fit with my understanding...

[Rising_star]

Unfortunately and sadly, it is my belief that you can't be proven wrong! It is exactly how I feel as well...and I presume many many more millions of ppl on this forsaken planet. The truth is our existence has become meaningless...there is no way around it!! Just read the paper, switch on the tele, look at your facebook, go to your work, see your family.....all examples of things we :"do" autopilot...meaningless daily activities we keep doing for the 80 odd years of our lives...we are getting older and more disjointed from each other....it's only going to get worse...not going to tell you a happy b****** story because its' not polite!! Fact is this......you are NOT alone...its finding ways to handle it effectively is the challenge part, with the hope of some contentment dare not happiness...goodluck.