It Never Ends

[Buzz71]

Hi I posted much of this in the newbie thread but I would like to seek a wider audience.

I am 49, married (second time around) with two kids from my first marriage, and a five year old from my second. I am a career public servant at upper middle level, and I have had battles with depression and anxiety since my early 20s. Right now I'm going through (yet another) severe bout of depression. I appreciate we shouldn't post too much personal detail here but context is important.
I'm actually on leave on half pay all of 2020. After many years of stress at work I decided to take this year to be a stay at home dad and help my youngest with their first year of school. Things haven't gone quite to plan with COVID etc but that's unavoidable.
Now I am at home and at least not stressed by work but I am depressed as ever. I am very fortunate and have no major problems but I can't seem to shake it. I've tried two different medications over the years but mostly I feel the side-effects are worse than any possible benefits. I have finally weaned off the second of these with much difficulty.
I feel hopeless ... everything is poisoned by the depression. Halfway through my leave and I am already starting to stress about returning to work. Long hours and high stress are part of the deal and my family has suffered over the years. I saw little of my older two children when they were younger because I was always at work. I don't want - and my wife definitely doesn't want - me to return to that habit.
But at home not working I haven't found the peace and joy I was seeking. The depression never leaves and I am ... so... tired... of fighting every single day. I wake up and it punches me in the face. I am not suicidal but I do have thoughts about it being the only way to stop the pain. I have quit drinking because I did come close once last year on a work trip - after a lot of drinks I found myself on a high balcony and considered doing it.
I do have professional help and have a psych I have seen for many years. She is good but no one else in my life understands the pain. My wife cares but doesn't know how to help, and I feel that it is slowly destroying our relationship. I have no real friends left - no one wants to be around depressed people. I feel hopeless- I see no way out and I can't see any options that will make things better.
So here I am - hoping to talk to people that understand depression and won't just tell me to cheer up and move on. Thanks for listening.

[Amanda2000]

Hi Buzz,

You are certainly not alone. I understand what you're going through from my own experience. I'm a homebody. Just like how you've described, I haven't been able to find peace and relaxation from the "covid-staying at home". Everyday I wake up feeling confused over what day it is. Daily routine like brushing-teeth/shower/laundry etc. feels more and more tedious. By the time I get to bed, I feel so overwhelmed. I don't feel relaxed at all to be able to sleep restfully.

If I can stop my over-thinking, it's a big help.

Also I enjoy watching tv as a distraction. But somedays my mind feels so cluttered that I can't follow what I'm watching.

Maybe the way to deal with depression is to accept that we all have good days and bad days. If today is a bad day, then tomorrow can be better, right?

Regarding your comment about guilt/wasting time from doing something fun, I once heard a very good line from a movie ..... If you've enjoyed wasting the time, then it hasn't been a waste of time!!

[therising]

Hi Buzz71

It sounds like you're working so hard to find all the right things that may lead you out of depression. Having experienced depression for about 15 years earlier in my life, I can relate to some of the hardest workers in life being those who strive to battle through and beyond depression. It can be so thoroughly exhausting.

Sounds like you're working hard to find your best. I've found this to be such an enormous trial and error deeply challenging process. It's the kind of process that can take years. To complicate things, finding our best will vary depending on circumstances. Eg: You can play your best game of golf at 7am but play a shocking game at 7 the next day. The 1st game may be based on the type of sleep you got the night before and there being few thoughts to distract you. Your best can resemble the right ingredients for the best recipe.

I can relate to the difficulty in finding your best when the chemistry in depression is influencing energy levels and mental perception. In this case, it's about your best under the circumstances (mind altering depression).

Would you say you're at your best (under the circumstances of depression), seeing a GP who treats you holistically, working less than 10+ hours a day, corresponding with people who can relate to depression, playing mental exercise games (without the guilt) and when you have a little more energy than usual?

Would you say you're at your worst or it's more depressing seeing a GP who doesn't treat you holistically, taking meds that mess with you, having people around who can't relate to depression, feeling enormous guilt and experiencing virtually no energy?

Is there anyone leading you to recognise or find your best or are most people leaving you to vibe at the same depressing levels of hopelessness? Do you think you could discover more of 'your best' if your wife researched depression and began to trial some outside the square strategies based on new found knowledge and a sense of wonder/experimentation? Like having a live in therapist who could lead you to possibility and hope. One of the things I found most depressing during my years in depression involved the lack of interest and positive input from my husband. Being basically loved wasn't enough to make a difference. I needed to be loved strategically, back to life.

Could redefining 'guilt' make some difference for you?

Buzz, how can we see we're doing out best if no one has led us to see it?

Believe me when I say you're amazing 🙂

[Buzz71]

Thank you everyone for your kind responses - all of which were helpful. Good to hear from you again Gambit, I hope things are trending in a better direction for you also.

Amanda, you certainly are right with the over-thinking. I'm forever casting my gaze out to the future, worried about so many things. One of the goals I have set myself is just to try and be present in today, and not be forever ruminating about the big picture stressors. I find this really difficult, I can do it in micro bursts sometimes but when I am not concentrating I default back to over-thinking.

Therising, thanks there were some wonderful points there. I totally agree with this line - "Is there anyone leading you to recognise or find your best or are most people leaving you to vibe at the same depressing levels of hopelessness". It is most assuredly the latter. I actually get quite angry with a lot of the mental health initiatives etc etc because it seems like these are aimed at making everyone else feel like they have done something by simply asking the question, but there is nothing underneath, or at least very few people know how to actually engage in a supportive manner with people struggling with depression.

Someone earlier did mention looking at finding resources on the site for partners to read but I struggled to find anything relevant, perhaps I was not looking in the right place. If you have any resources on how to be "loved strategically" (I like this idea!) then I would be most grateful.

Thank you all for your contributions. I will re-read several times and let it sink in.

[Amanda2000]

Hi Buzz,

For me, distraction is the most effective way to kill the over-thinking. My work was very stressful in the past few months. People left and were not replaced so all their workload got dumped on me! But it was a very welcoming distraction - temporarily .... until the work became a little overwhelming and I felt like people always wanted something from me. I think we just need little distractions here and there to help get through the bad days. It's like each short-term adds up to a long-term.

My downtime is when the over-thinking returns. I look forward to some peace and quiet, but instead of being able to relax, I'm hit with negative thoughts from all directions. Both frustrating and exhausting!

I also have to focus hard on living at the present. The pre-emptive worries are always worse than doing the actual thing. I try to say to myself "don't think and just do it!"

Regarding the resources for partners to read, I've just googled "living with someone with depression". The list has a few items on relationships. Try it and see if there's anything relevant for you. Haha at least your partner is willing to understand the condition. I wish my husband was as supportive. I did try to talk to him as a "cry for help" but it made everything worse. He's not the sensitive type and his response to me was "move on!!". So now I just stay quiet and don't talk on my bad days. Not ideal but it's the best way given the circumstances.

It takes a fellow sufferer to understand the condition. Chatting with you has helped me offload some of my own struggles. Thank you for listening!

[Guest9337]

G'day Buzz71,

I'm thinking Buzz lightyear from Toy Story and born in 1971, i was born in 72 and now love a good comedy.

You are a solid writer, after reading your posts I felt trapped, bouncing around off your statements, boundaries, circumstances and emotions. Sure is a complex situation.

I avoided comedies for a long time, didn't want to experience laughing, I still don't know why, maybe I didn't value laughter enough. Is there anything motivating in laughter, like, what's funny for you Buzz71?

Here's one that my grandpa told me over 30 years ago. "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit." Took me twenty years to get a laugh out of that! I am serious, twenty years later - just one day I thought to myself, what if grandpa was being sarcastic with the statement? And click, absolutely hilarious.

When I worked in a government building, in the mail room, a workmate and I collected jokes that we emailed around, got quite a large document happening. Never got in trouble sharing that document and it just kept growing and growing. Work sucked, it was boring, repetitive, simple, promotion only through death of supervisor! But we had that joke file and it helped. Was a work romance breakup that eventually forced me to leave, just couldn't bear seeing the ex at work day in day out on the same floor level, had to leave. Cost me a secure full time job and is actually the last full time work I had since 2000, totally worth it leaving, too much pain to stay.

Here's a thought for you Buzz71. 5 years is a long time in prison, feeling the way you express about work. Under what circumstances would you be able to quit?

What would salve the guilt you mention? Which different positions inspire you? Is it more crazy to spend five years in "prison" for defined benefits super scheme than ... something else?

Anxiety can guide you sometimes, I think we feel anxiety about important-to-us things/roles. I felt anxiety about public speaking but overcame that because I love coaching sports to kids. I was comfortable about being uncomfortable. In the beginning of my coaching career I had trouble sleeping the night before a session, I'd have pretty solid butterflies meeting any of the school staff or parents and when introducing myself to the group at start of the session.

For me eventually those anxieties did lessen, hope is real.

[therising]

Hi Buzz71

You've triggered me to serious contemplation. I'm always grateful to anyone who holds the power to do this 🙂

I suppose, some of my strategies involve the imagination. I've found the power of imagination to be highly underrated. There are times where I'll lead myself or my kids (18yo daughter and 15yo son) to imagine something other than what's in our mind. For example, just the other day my daughter was facing what she imagined would be one of the toughest days at work so far. In her mind she saw the stress she was convinced she'd be facing. I said to her 'I want you to imagine there's someone at work who holds the ability to help you manage. Who do imagine this to be? Who comes to mind?' Suddenly, she imagined a particular person. 'Now, what do you imagine yourself saying to her at the start of the day, in the way of a plan for you to manage?' She imagined herself asking this person, the person who was training her 'What do you need me to focus on most today, in order of priority?' Long story short, my daughter got to work to find this woman saying to her, before my daughter could put her plan in motion 'I need you to focus on this today. If anyone comes to you with work they should be doing themself, tell them to go and complete their own paperwork, as you don't have the time. Say this directive comes from me'.

To find people who can trigger my imagination in a way that actually works, can help me in making some sort of shift. In a way that actually works is the most important part of the plan. For example, I could say to you 'Imagine getting some much needed exercise by walking around the block 3 times'. You can't imagine this making a difference. If I said 'Imagine going for a walk in a place that naturally raises your spirits a bit, like hiking in the hills' you may easily imagine this making some difference, even if it's just a little bit.

Daydreaming is a lost art form we practiced as children. I found for myself, losing this ability comes with consequences. If we can't imagine a difference, like that which may be presented in daydreaming, it can feel like we're stuck in a hellish reality. A daydream could be something as simple as us seeing our self no longer working 10+ hours a day and instead imagining working from home. Suddenly, coming out of that imagined reality, the question becomes 'Can I make that real?'

Imagination can be an incredibly powerful. The challenge involves being conscious of who triggers what kind of imagery.

🙂

[Buzz71]

Amanda - many thanks I found myself nodding and agreeing as I read your post! I used to distract myself *with* my work when I had a busy job I found interesting. Unfortunately, it was stressful also and took up most of my life. Now I have found a less stressful job, but a field that isn't really my thing and it distracts me less. Catch 22! On the whole it is better I think because I have time for my family.

That said, the time I am spending with the family is increasingly poor due entirely to me. I don't like being with myself - so I can imagine it is horrible for my wife. I'm very conscious it is putting a strain on our relationship. I did google search as you suggested but many of the hits seemed to be advice for partners to leave! This frightens me a lot, I worry my wife will tire of coping and move on.

We did try to talk last night but mostly her counsel is just to force myself to carryon. I've been doing that for years, I'm tired of having to force myself every single day. It's frustrating, if you had a broken leg or any other physical health problem you don't get told just to carry on regardless. Yet with depression it just seems to be oh well suck it up.

Thanks again for your thoughts I really appreciate it.

[Buzz71]

Hi David n Goliath,

Thanks for your post. I had started reading your thread and will comment there too. Some of your thoughts resonated with me, I very much just want to withdraw into my comfortable cave and not come out. I probably already have done that to a large extent - I don't have many friends anymore, certainly not close ones. I tend to avoid social things now - and who wants to be with the depressed person anyway.

Your question - under what circumstances would you be able to quit? It's hard to answer. Theoretically, I could tomorrow. My wife has a good job and we could probably scrape by on her income alone. But it would have a massive impact on us financially and the guilt for me would be enormous. I'd be directly impacting our quality of life and financial future. So I don't really see that as viable and I just have to somehow carry on until I am 55 at least.

Then of course I don't want to spend the next five years wishing my life away. Having hit 50 I'm conscious for the first time that life is not forever. I think that is partially why I am so frustrated with it now, I always hoped after decades of treatment that I would reach this spot where my worries would be over. Honestly I think that is why retiring seems like nirvana - I would love to just have my comfy cave, play games to distract me, do some regular exercise, sit in the sun, maybe some gardening. Instead I have five more years of dragging myself to work.

I know it is a mindset thing - but as we know, with depression changing that mindset is oh so hard.

[Buzz71]

Hi therising

Thanks for a thought provoking post. I think I agree with your thoughts on imagination and daydreaming. The problem I face is I all too often am daydreaming of this imagined nirvana where I can let go of the rat race and not have that hanging over me. To an extent I tried that last year with a year's long service leave. It partially worked, but because I had the return hanging over me I tended to ruminate over that and the depression was ever present.

So I need to imagine some shorter term things and change my mindset on my present. Of course knowing this and implementing this are two different things. I think this is one of the hardest things to explain to non-depression sufferers who try to help. Most if not all of the suggestions of course we have already tried - if it was as simple as "try x strategy" then of course all of us sufferers would leap at it. But it isn't that easy is it.

For example, as you said: "A daydream could be something as simple as us seeing our self no longer working 10+ hours a day and instead imagining working from home. Suddenly, coming out of that imagined reality, the question becomes 'Can I make that real?'" - well I did it, I went through it it and made enormous changes. The problem is - it hasn't fixed anything. Is it better? In some ways yes. At least I am present more for my family. Problem is I'm just physically present but still trapped in the depression.

I wish I knew the answer. I feel a lot like a fish swimming upstream against society's expectations. Most of my (especially male) acquaintances are shocked when I say I voluntarily demoted myself two levels. It's not the done thing! You always have to be striving for improvement, reaching for more, if you aren't growing you are dying etc etc. I will say female colleagues have been more understanding. But generally, society treats you like a leper when you try to opt out of the mainstream path.

Thank you though for your interesting thoughts. I will keep exploring ways to try and daydream in a positive manner 🙂

[Guest9337]

Hey Buzz71, thanks for your honesty, I would love to read your thoughts in my anti-movement thread.

What is quality of life?

Seems to me you are trading present quality of life for a hoped for particular quality of life post retirement. That's cool, like the marshmellow test, delay eating one marshmellow now because later you'll have two marshmellows. It's what quite a lot of financial institutions portray as a good way to live. Giving up the now for something superior in the future, apparently quite a normal thing to do. Some find it motivating to delay gratification for later positive outcomes.

My horizon is so close I see no reason to plan for anything much further away than a few months.

I accept that you choose to delay leaving the job, then what follows is that you should aim to extend your life in retirement. That's about being healthy so that you can benefit from your healthy delay for as long as possible by living a long and quality life post retirement. You may find motivation in being proactive about your health.

Is your health good? Might be worthwhile to see a GP and getting instructions on how to extend your life and its quality. Things like overweight, lack of exercise, poor sleep are associated with depression and can cut years off a persons life.

I imagine that making it to retirement and discovering having a shorter life span expectation would be heart breaking.

So increase the value of your present work by aiming to extend your life.