My introduction... Hello

[David Nobody]

Hi, it was suggested to me to visit here and share my experiences.

Depression combined with Aspergers makes my life difficult.

One day I woke up and found myself inside a mental “facility” and started using “documenting my thoughts” as a coping technique. That escalated to becoming my main avoidance technique.

I showed what I wrote to some people and they suggested I try to publish them. This only added to my stress.

After much time I have finally done that. Now I am trying to get someone to read my “story” to assist in understanding what goes through the mind of a depressed individual. My “book” is a collection of poetry with related commentary. I have been told it is good, but as one of my major “schema” is Negativity/Pessimism, I don’t know if I believe them.

Anyway, I’m here to share a bit of my story...

[David Nobody]

Paul and Dools,

thank you both.

Paul, I have said this before, words are easy... stuff like music, painting, drawing, people are hard. Words (and poetry) have rules and instructions, I can follow a map ‘til the cows come home. I think cows are becoming my favourite animal, they appear all the time. But I digress. People who can do stuff that doesn’t have boundaries are legends. I would accept “creative”, but only just. (And I just can’t seem to stop opposing every nice word. I need to work on this)

Dools... I used to think like that. My dad’s a Rugby Union “second rower” who makes stuff out of metal and sweat... I played “Slim” in Oklahoma, wear glasses, had braces, is asthmatic, “works with computers”... Polar opposites. Now I realise I am “exactly like him”. Quite likely he is on the spectrum as well and he has had to deal with depression as well.

(And Paul, I forgot to mention, guilt is a major motivation)

Explained

His sadness he can now explain
The time spent, alone together
Why selling the car caused him pain
The time spent has gone forever

His sadness now passed to his girls
Time together, they were alone
They were nurtured, two little pearls
Time together, no longer known

His sadness the cause of his pain
Time eternal, madness came on
Existence and memories wane
Time eternal, memory gone...

now look what you’ve done... I’m off for a little cry now.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi David (and a wave to all),

Thank you for sharing your thoughts elsewhere, and for giving me permission to address your comments, from elsewhere, here on your thread. I’m happy to continue in a polite, healthy and respectful way 🙂 I’ll try to keep it as succinct as I can as I know you’re discussing other topics here...

Regarding your comments...

In my opinion, I don’t think Michelle Obama was trying to accuse, devalue anyone or trying to lift, say, minority groups at the expense of others in that quote. I believe we can hold space for all voices (including yours, which is definitely of value too)...

The thing is I feel when someone tries to empower one group, it does not necessarily mean they are finger pointing, devaluing or trying to put down another group. Sure, yes, unfortunately the put-downs, etc sometimes happen, but I don’t believe that is what Obama was trying to do...

Maybe I’ll try to illustrate with an example....

I think when we encourage men to speak up about mental health and the struggles that they face (for example), it doesn’t take away from anyone else’s experience, such as, a woman living with a mental illness. I suppose my point is I think there is room for all of us, and encouraging any one “group” to talk about their struggles/lift them up doesn’t lessen anyone else’s experience. I understand that example isn’t really the same as what Obama was talking about. But I think a similar underlying principle applies...

About that quote, perhaps it would help if I gave you the context; it was from a conversation she had with a group of young people from a disadvantaged community in Arizona. So, I believe all Obama was trying to do was encourage people who may not always feel heard to find and exercise their voice ....I don’t think she was actively trying to accuse, devalue or take from anyone else that she may not have been directly addressing though...as I said before, I believe there is space for all of us.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and thank you also for letting me address your comments here on your thread. I think I’ve expressed my key points now, so I might just leave it there. I don’t want to derail the current conversation here on this thread too much 🙂

It sounds like you’re receiving lovely support from quite a few very caring people here, which is very nice to see. I enjoy reading your poems...your latest was very poignant...

Kind thoughts and take care

[David Nobody]

Hi Pepper,

I agree completely with you that her statement wasn’t trying to devalue anyone’s worth. And in a perfect world it wouldn’t. But with limited spaces available, filling them with one of each minority, reduces the space available for the majority.

There is no correct answer, you can’t fix mistakes of the past, someone will always think that they have been treated unfairly (most probably rightly so).

I live on both sides of the fence quite often. My daughters identify as aboriginal, and I fully support them “using” that to achieve their goals. This might make me seem to be a hypocrite, I am willing to wear that label, I’ve been called much worse.

I’ll be back later with more comments. Off to group I go... tra, la, la, la...

David

[David Nobody]

To expand on your men’s health example with a similar example...

Red Nose day first appeared in 1988... I was at “expo” that’s how I remember. That was/is a fantastic cause. They received 100% of my donations that year.

Daffodil day, Legacy, Guide Dogs, Black Dog, Buy a carbon offset Tree, Donate a Pig, and many many (10,000 apparently) other charities all have to vie for my donations.

While these charities don’t directly oppose each other, their existence reduces my specific donations as I simply can’t afford to give each as much as I would like. So Red Nose Day has suffered because I chose to ”share the wealth”. My pie can only go so far.

I recently had to cancel my World Vision sponsorship after around 25 years. And I’m fairly sure the people who received the donations have never heard of Red Nose Day.

So unfortunately I have to disagree with your “I believe there is space for all of us“ statement. And while Mrs Obama wasn’t “actively trying to accuse, devalue or take from anyone else”, indirectly, she was. Buy choosing that group of people to help, she didn’t choose many other groups.

And I enjoy your conversation, it is me who needs to thank you.

David

[Peppermintbach]

Hi David,

Thank you for sharing your examples. Thank you also for the kind and respectful way you’ve expressed your thoughts, even when we may not necessarily agree. I really appreciate that, & I hope we can continue in that respectful manner 🙂

In the case of donating money to charities or time (volunteering), sure, yes, both our money & time is finite. So, when it comes specifically to charities, we all have to pick & choose.

Although, I don’t think Obama was trying to take from someone else’s pie (so to speak) as much as she was trying to get them to reclaim a (proportionate) piece of the pie that may not have been adequately allocated to begin with to certain groups.

I think if we start thinking along the lines of one person’s “gain” is another person’s “loss”, it can start becoming a mentality of “every man or woman for him or herself”, which I don’t think is very helpful in the long-run...I understand that’s not quite what you’re expressing, but if we all started thinking in those terms, I think there would be (even more) problems in society than there already is...

I think the heart of the matter isn’t about our absolute share of the pie (so to speak), but it’s about a proportionate share. I think sometimes marginalised groups (e.g. that group in Arizona) did not even get their proportionate/fair share to begin with...

I would like to talk about the LGBTQ+ community, for instance. Personally, I’m a heterosexual woman, so any polices/time/resources allocated to anything that supports people who identify as LGBTQ+ does not directly involve me. But, I am more than happy for more said helpful policies/time/resources be allocated to them...

The reason is because, I, as a heterosexual woman already have more than my fair share of the “pie.” Everywhere I turn, I am validated & directly or indirectly supported. In media, I am represented & validated by (typically) heterosexual relationships portrayed in movies. In relationships, no one is going to judge me. I also don’t have to fight for my right to marriage- it’s a given to me. Etc. I already have (more than) my proportionate share, & I have space in my heart & life to have “pie” allocated to someone else who perhaps needs it more than me...

I’m not trying to be difficult or argumentative. In your case, I believe you’re a kind person e.g. gives to charities when you can. I hope you keep supporting them. Good talking to you, thanks again for the respectful way you have expressed yourself 🙂

[David Nobody]

Hi Pepper,

you are quite correct... the goal should be a proportionate piece of the pie. Unfortunately I think (we both “think” way too much) that often leads to a “grab as much as you can” mentality. There is no correct answer. If you don’t grab, you don’t get, unless you have someone looking out for you, like Mrs Obama.

the sad thing about all of this is that while everyone is trying to get their fair share of the pie, the debate over who gets how much just reduces the overall amount of the pie, which is, I think, what you are saying about the long term.

and I also completely agree, people should not have to fight to be equal.

you managed to pick another of my favourite questions... why does LBGTIQ+ have the “L” in its acronym? Why do lesbians get their own letter? Why are they identified differently from gay men? Can you get a male lesbian? Even if it is there for historical purposes, doesn’t this make it extremely sexist, the core of what the movement is trying to eliminate? Doesn’t giving anyone the label of LBGTI or Q strengthen the opposition to the argument that “people are just people” and they shouldn’t be segregated based on their sexuality? Why can’t we just all be Ps?

personally I’m grateful that someone is baking all of this pie... it takes my mind off being a nochanceofthatsexual...

David.

I also think that being polite is the only way to debate. As soon as you get angry, upset, loud, abusive, disrespectful etc... that becomes the topic of the (now) argument. When that happens the original discussion of help is forgotten and it becomes all about winning.

Fortune Cookie Wisdom

Honesty, Courage, Order, and Safety
Four attributes that have meaning for me
I speak the truth and expect it from you
Standing up for the downtrodden and blue
A place for all things, all things in their place
And safely sustaining the human race
Making me seem very prim and proper
Quotes for a fortune cookie, grasshopper

[Birdy77]

Hi David,

I hope it's ok for me join you and Pepper on this ... I read your comment on the Words Of Comfort etc thread about Pepper's quote of Michelle Obama's, so I looked for your thread as well.

From where I sit, I think that when trying to redress inequality, there needs to be some kind of extra kind of leverage afforded to those who have been oppressed. If not, the dominant group will always dominate because they have such an advantage, they have been given a massive head start.

The end goal will be equality, but to reach that end, to remedy the huge disparity in power, I think it only makes sense to give a leg up to those not in the most powerful, dominant position.

The "other" (minority groups, oppressed peoples) always come from a disadvantage, and to create an equal platform, the baseline needs adjustment, and those who have been disadvantaged for so very, very long need the starting line brought up a bit.

Pepper has said this with much more clarity, but I wanted to pop my thoughts in anyhow, hope it's ok.

As for the L in LGBTQI+ ... as a lesbian woman, i can offer you my take on it: I identify as a lesbian. I don't like to call myself a gay woman. This is just my preference. Everyone is different. Of course, it would be great to call ourselves just people, but that's not the way it pans out in this point in history. As a woman, I am constantly "coming out", eg I am always asked about my husband and having to explain Who I Am ...

Just some of my thoughts.

Wishing peace for you David, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

🌻birdy

[Birdy77]

Hi again,

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to say something else about the "L Word"

For me, it's a label I can use that says just what it is, without relating it to a male version of the same. To say "Gay Woman", you are automatically relate it back to the male version of itself ... whereas a lesbian is just that ... no further explanation or relating-back needed ... does that make sense?

[David Nobody]

Hi Birdy,

of course you are welcome, it’s a conversation after all, not a soap box (although I seem to be preaching my thoughts a lot)

You actually make a very good point about the “headstart”. I haven’t considered it like that before. And yes, overall that would be fair, but (as an example) how do you tell Mr Average, he didn’t get into Uni because even though he scored higher on the “tests”, he doesn’t come from a disadvantaged place, so... sorry you don’t get in.

I do understand your reasoning, I just have a hard time knowing that someone will not get in, when neither of them deserve to be left out, and the decision was made by events in history, that neither of them change.

Yes a disadvantaged person, social or financial, deserves a more than fair go, but when that comes at the expense of someone, through no fault of their own, isn’t disadvantaged... I don’t want to be the one who tells them.

I have said before, I hate that society has put us in this predicament, there isn’t a good answer. There will be someone deserving left out, and that is the definition of inequality. So the disadvantaged become the advantaged. The next step is trying to figure out when the benefits of being disadvantaged are no longer acceptable. My head is hurting with trying to find an acceptable answer, knowing there isn’t one... *sigh*

For you take on “L”, that is interesting. If you don’t mind me asking, why don’t you like to refer to yourself as a gay woman? Is it due the the word “gay” being used as a derogatory term, or as a term usually applied to men? I’m just being nosey and won’t take offence if you think I should “pull my head in”.

I used to refer to my ex “lady friend” as “my partner”, and that would often create an assumption that I was “gay” and “my partner” was male. Often I didn’t correct them because it didn’t bother me, and if it bothered them, I didn’t care. Seems strange to call someone “girlfriend” when you are 50.

I also find it interest that you say “lesbian woman”, why not just lesbian? I hate that people have to “define” themselves to such a limited range of options.

Single, Hetrosexual, Autistic, Nerdy, Depressed, Yokel

I should change my profile name to Shandy

'cause nightmares are somebody's daydreams
Daydreams are somebody's lies
Lies ain't no harder than telling the truth
Truth is the perfect disguise

[Birdy77]

Hello David/Shandy,

I understand your head hurting, society does that to me quite frequently as well.

I agree that it does seem unfair that your Mr Average might not get that place at uni simply because he doesn't come from a disadvantaged position. Just as it was unfair that back in the day, for instance, a black American or an indigenous Australian or a woman were not offered those positions simply because of the colour of their skin/gender etc even though, had they been given the opportunity, may well have scored higher than the all those white middle class men who got in because being a white man was a pre requisite.

Thousands upon thousands of instances of unfair treatment towards the "other" back then, means a few instances of "unfairness" now, as a way to begin to readjust that baseline. I guess that's how I see it anyway.

In answer to your question about why I prefer "lesbian" over gay woman, I'm not really sure, I just like the word better 😊 and I didn't really mean to type "lesbian woman", I just meant lesbian.

Have a nice afternoon.

🌻birdy