seeing the car crash ahead - how do i avoid it?

[Lucinda45]

Hi - I'm seeking some advice. I have been with my husband for 13 years and he was diagnosed with depression nearly 10 years ago. Most here will know that once you are over the initial reality, you try and you fail to manage and support appropriately, and then you fall into familiar patterns. Some good, some not so good.  He has not seen a counsellor or therapist for years.

My observation of his triggers are situations where he fears he does not have control, or where he believes he is being told what to do (being denied choice/control). Mostly this manifests in small incidents that can be managed -  telling me what he will do without consultation with me ("I'm going away this weekend"), becoming obsessive about the state of the kitchen (scooping everything off the benches and dumping it in another room - sadly this obsessiveness does not extend to the rest of the house…). Whilst this can be inconvenient, I don't take it personally and we manage.

We are planning a 3 month overseas holiday with our 10 yo daughter at the end of the year. We're all very excited. We travel well together, where the mundane and expectations of everyday are absent. We spoke this week of planning, accommodation etc. He has stated (and I know) that he does not like staying at other people's houses. In fact he has become very anti-social unless it is in our own home. We have been offered accommodation in London with some friends of ours who have a large house, my brother also lives in London so I am keen to spend time there. Of the whole 3 month trip he has become fixated on the fact that I am suggesting we stay at our friends' house, and whether we go to London at all. He is accusing me of dictating the trip (although he has asked me to organise it all) and becoming upset that I am not giving him a choice on going to London. I have said, well no - my brother lives there, and we need to travel through London, there are things I and our daughter want to see/do. We need to manage $$. Our friends live in a large 3 bedroom house. We are there only 5 nights. 

He is choosing this topic to become very angry about me "being selfish and doing what I want", that he "has no say". It seems to give him satisfaction that he has a focus for his anger.

I feel like I can see the car crash ahead. He is choosing to believe that I am controlling him. I can't win. I can let it lie for a bit, but we have make decisions and book. I feel like i need to tread carefully. What's my next step??

[blondguy]

Hi Lucinda

Paul here...and Welcome to the BB Forums

Your first paragraphs spoke volumes..'He has not seen a counsellor or therapist for years' I feel like I am talking to the carer here Lucinda (with all respect for your husband of course) I feel like your husbands' depression is the one being the 'snappy tom' here. You are very strong as well as courageous  to post in the first place...Nice1

Your husband (just my opinion and experience) seems to be struggling with going to the UK at all here..

With respect to your trip Lucinda....What does your husband think of a counselor..therapist? It seems that he is 'lashing out' at you when he has the problem in the first place. Even with depression (yes i do know) it does not give a male or female the right to take it out on their partner...Its not on....He is crossing the line here...

Has your hubby been to see and vent to his GP at all? (less stigma with seeing a GP than a therapist)

Does he have a GP that he is comfortable with? If not, would he see your GP?

Does his depression effect his work? If not..thats good....

Everyone's Kitchen is sometimes a mess...Does your hubby help with the housework? Scooping everything off your benchtops and placing it in another room isn't healthy...A lot of anger there..The sooner he vents the better

He appears to be very critical of you...and if I may say...controlling. I have read your post over again, I can see what you have organised/planned is great...simple....family orientated and cost effective too..

If I may ask...was your hubby on any meds after his diagnosis? Has he had any anxiety with his depression?

I know you are looking forward and have worked hard for this vacation Lucinda but Depression can take many years of fine tuning and regular counseling...depending on the severity of his depression. I have had depression for many years...but...I wanted to help myself from the onset and understand what these feelings represented.

Please also keep in mind that depression is a physical illness (chemical changes in the brain...adrenaline..etc) that results in the psychological 'feelings' /behavior your hubby has now...

Your husband is suffering Lucinda...but he has no right to transfer his symptoms/anger to you...Illness or not

I do hope you can respond..if you wish of course...We are here for you

Kind Thoughts

Paul

[Lucinda45]

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your post and kind words of support. To answer your questions. Yes he has a good relationship with his GP and can talk to them. He and I agree that his antidepressant medication (he recently went back on) is not working as well as hoped. My experience is that going to London is not the issue, he feels that I am giving him no choice and therefore is fixating on that. His depression does not affect his work, although he admits he has some anger management issues (eg road rage) at times. Yes he does have anticipatory anxiety and that is also a trigger. The reality of travel is not the issue, it is his perception that he is being told what to do and controlled.

In my experience if he can find something to be angry about I think he then feels that his emotions/thought patterns/rationale/anger are justified. He can point his finger to something and say - "that's it! that's what I'm angry about". Like there is a shred of reasonableness wrapped in unreasonable anxiety. This helps him avoid examining this behaviour to look for the root cause. 

[Doolhof]

Hi Lucinda,

Paul has already asked a lot of questions here and I have read your reply.

I am a person who has depression, Borderline Personality Disorder, Stress and control issues! I get where your husband is coming from! I am not saying that he has the right to act and behave the way he does, I am just saying I sort of know why he reacts the way he does.

For me it is a feeling of not being in control, then I feel vulnerable, uneasy and tense. Then I become angry and frustrated. Thanks to medication. my Dr. a psychiatrist and all sorts of other treatment, I am now better able to tame the tiger within!

It is great you are trying to sort this out now and not just before you go on holiday.

I do realise that holidays are not at all cheap. I like the idea of staying with family and friends but my husband doesn't. Is it at all possible for your husband to stay some where else of his choosing for a few days while you are with family?

Might be way off the mark, but it might also work.

Can you have a chat with his Dr and explain this situation and gain some advice on how best to manage this issue.

Cheers for now from Mrs. Dools

[blondguy]

Morning Lucinda

You have a good understanding where depression is concerned and great of you to respond too

The difficulty your husband has sometimes in traffic and the various 'triggers' for his anger at home actually do have a common denominator...'a tired mind' (depression) A mind that is exhausted will react in this way

The 'anger' can be unlearned using meds as 'building blocks' for his recovery...Great news Lucinda. I do speak from experience on this matter. The medication can take a few weeks to 'kick in'. Once he 'lets go' of hanging on so tightly he will look back and think 'My god, was that me'?

He is very fortunate to have someone as intelligent, perceptive and caring as you Lucinda

Here for you

Kind Thoughts

Paul

[Lucinda45]

Thanks for responses - it's been good to help me practice my empathy for my husband, and remember to put myself in his shoes. I would also love to hear from a partner of someone with depression who may relate. Can you share any stories of your coping strategies? Thanks 

[Doolhof]

Hi Lucinda,

Both my husband and I suffer from depression so I can see the story from both sides. We both act and behave differently when we are not so good.

When my husband is low he shuts himself away from me, he drinks more, goes out with his mates (which is a good thing...but leaves me home a lot) he spends money we don't have and can be very negative and snappy.

I found we were arguing a lot when doing the dishes of all things. Now I wash up, leave the dishes and he puts them away in the morning. He becomes angry with me if I dry and put them away as that is his job. I have learnt to accept that is how it works best.

I try to not let the words he says or his actions to hurt me too much. I try to understand it is his depression talking and not necessarily how he really feels.

Sometimes I take myself out to the garden, read a book, email friends or do what ever else picks me up and makes me feel better.

I try to realise that I can make my own happiness.

My husband is not very supportive when I am really down, so I make a huge effort to be there for him and that seems to help him. I listen to what he has to say without being judgemental.

It is not always easy to try to be neutral and positive when he is having a bad time of things. He also has the added stress of not working for two years and is unable to find employment. I try not to nag him about this, it is of no benefit.

Hope some of this helps!

Cheers for now from Mrs. Dools

[Lucinda45]

Thanks - I can relate to what you are saying. I can for example plan our holiday so that he stays behind in New York while we go on to London and he meets us after. My daughter and I would have more fun that way and the issue goes away.

i wonder though - at what point do these constant accommodations and appeasements become indulgent and a lose of myself, and what I want/need?

if I suggest that I want to do something - like go to London, go away for a weekend without him - I'm accused of being selfish (standard response if I want to do something different or disagree).

when does it become unhealthily one sided versus lovingly supportive? 

[Doolhof]

Hi Lucinda,

If I had the answers to your questions, I would be as happy as a pig in mud...so to speak.

My husband can go interstate with his mate for a couple of weeks. When I decide I would like to go on a holiday to say Queensland, I am told I can have a weekend away at one of the local hotels on our S.A. city beach front! Okay! So where is the equality in that?

I understand what you are saying! When is enough enough. When do you really stand up for yourself and say exactly what you want, then try to achieve it, with out feeling like you are the worst person in the world?

Why is it okay my husband can buy cartons of beer but my wanting $7.00 of postage stamps at Christmas is classed as being outrageous!

I don't have the answer for you at all. When you figure it out, then please let me know.

I am not trying to make fun of what you are going through, I know too well what it is like. I just try to add some humour to it all so I don't feel too depressed and overwrought by it all.

Oh, here is another good one. My husband likes a meat pie from a certain bakery. I told him I liked one from a different bakery. I was told off for not agreeing with him! I think it is more my husband who has the issue and not me! Ha. Ha.

Thanks for sharing!

[blondguy]

Hi Lucinda

If I may ask you? Are you more concerned about your travel itinerary or your husbands ill health? With all respect you did mention that he was diagnosed with Depression. It is an illness that requires time and effort (and even a GP or therapist) to aid his recovery. 

Please familiarize yourself with the clinical meaning and symptoms of Depression and that should enable you to have some clarity where travel arrangements are concerned.

Thankyou for getting back to us Lucinda

Paul