GUILT the tormentor

[white knight]

Guilt in my opinion originates from a factor in our childhood. I dont think its hereditary but if our homelife includes generations of narcissistic behaviour then it could feel like its passed down.

I know its not passed down because although I am a child of a narcissistic mother (and a nurturing one) I stopped the flow on to my children by refusing the trend of becoming a controlling parent. If hereditary I couldnt have succeeded. So why did I end up suffering guilty intrusive thoughts?

As my father worked 14 hour days 6 days a week, our mother was our prime parent. She didnt work. Outsiders never knew. Its what went on behind closed doors that scarred us forever.

As a young child, there is a huge difference between control and guidance. As teenagers there is a gap between a parent with recommendations and domination. As we arrive in our 20's we cant deal with our bossy parent any longer and fight back against what is by now manipulation and a gang mentality...even emotional blackmail.

The narcissistic parent is clever. They'll use any means at their disposal to control. In my case turning our loving father and relatives against us. They can be possessive of your friends and even try to coerce you to choose a partner preferring one that can be "moulded" into their deputy...more control.

If you've read this far you might also be a victim. What can you do?

Im 61yo. Right up till 54yo I tried everything but nothing worked. My sister and I broke off all contact, put "return to sender" on letters from our mother and as she had ruined my first wedding in 1985, got a court order so she couldnt ruin my second wedding (her threat)

It is highly unlikely a relationship with a narcissist of little contact will work as the control they lust for isnt with them, its with you. How dare you control your own life!

So guilt forms in ways like being told- they are never wrong, you are at fault, you make poor choices, if you do that I'll do this, if you do that I'll ruin your life, etc

Add to that some anxiety if the narcissistic parent is a "yeller". The expectations are too great as to your immature capacity to "be a good boy". You are their robot.

I attended a psychologist. I'll never forget his words at the last session "do you think you need her permission to live without fear?"

That was the light that sparked me realising her hold was a firm grip.

Demand to yourself the basic right to mental freedom. Walk away, get help to repair the guilt wound ..into a scar.

Tony WK

[geoff]

Hello RX, Elizabeth and Tony, and anyone else, if you kept asking your spouse/partner to be intimate and the answer was always 'no' and told by them that you can go out and have it with someone else, how would you feel.

The initial thought could be, I've been given the OK to have it elsewhere, but suddenly the guilt overtakes you, what's going to happen with my family, their family as well and will it eventually break up the relationship, the family we have and what will everyone think about me doing so, will I lose any respect and will another husband want to keep his wife well away from him or vice-versa.

If this did happen then many repercussions may follow, instead of wanting to know the reason why it's got to this stage.

Geoff.

[Earth Girl]

I think what matters most is that we learn from what we did and this can sometimes take time especially if it was a habit, but just wanting to do better is a really good thing. Some people may seem like they can go through life with the bad things they have done in the past, but they actually think about them a lot so you're not alone. People tell me that I seem like a really happy person, and I guess in a way I am, but I have a lot going on in my mind and a lot of it is feeling bad about things which I do not know how to make right. I try my best to right my wrongs and do better, but it hurts when you hurt other people whether you show it or not. Most of the time it hurts straight away and other times it takes a bit longer, but it always catches up for me and a lot of other people.

But just remember that we all mess up and we all say and do things we regret. I can relate to you kind of because I have psychosis and before I was being treated for it, I said things that I wouldn't normally say (though some of the things I said were definitely my fault as I was very immature when I was younger). There's not really anything I can do about it now other than reflect and grow as a person. If you believe you have grown a lot since those mistakes you make, you should be proud of that.

[white knight]

Thankyou Earth girl,

So what are some remedies from guilt or regret?

Although I support professional help with any such problems many of my own such issues I've found ways to continue in life with my own counter measures.

I found that I needed to accept life and all its rotten parts. Guilt, well I put that in the same basket as low self esteem, a crook back or reminding myself that no one has a perfect childhood. To extend that, young adult carry out actions they later regret and middle aged people make mistakes like poor investments or even speeding. Get where I'm going? If you make mistakes it proves you're human.

How do we accept? If you dwell on what you feel guilty about then you'll entrench that guilt, stamp it on your mind. If you made similar effort in focussing on allowing past indiscretions to not flood your thinking you're on a winner. Part of that process I called "switching mindsets" a process whereby mentally you are dwelling, physically you do the opposite (google: beyondblue topic switching mindsets).

You're lying on the couch wanting to go on your daily run. You lie there not wanting to move. So you leave your mind on that couch but physically get up and run. I say to myself "Tony, do the opposite" !

I assaulted a a guy 43 years ago. I shouldn't have. He was an acquaintance and for some reason my action resurfaces, real guilt, intrusive unwanted thoughts. At that moment I begin my counter measures, attend my hobby, go on FB, mow the lawn, anything to distract from my intruder. I talk out loud "we all make mistakes, it's OK. You apologised, you can't change the past ".

Overall my intent is to live a happy life. I can't eliminate my guilt but I have learned I can put it in a bag and throw it in a river, albeit more often than I'd like.

Do you have a strategy?

TonyWK

[Guest_1584]

Yeah , l couldn't care about a bad investment or any of life's even bigger stuff ups win some lose some, or a few speeding fines. lt's the stuff that involved people that l have trouble with, especially if anyone l love. lmagine if you added love into that assault equation.

l don't really have low esteem on most levels , but maybe though people l see just walk away for just as bad have higher esteem or even arrogance , and so they can. They certainly don't have my empathy that l can say , too much of that stuff is a bit of a curse in a way isn't it.

rx

[white knight]

RX

Lack of empathy. Been thinking about that for some time.

Initially, when first diagnosed, I came across the stigma of MI and that lack of empathy. Like a weighing scale I found that peoples arrogance was at one end and peoples MI the other. You have a mental health issue you self esteem goes down, you inform another person and their arrogance and judgemental attitude rises.

Humans are more imperfect now since I was a kid, my knowledge of it that is. I used to believe that older people were distinguished. I wrote a manuscript once and called it "Grey hair and smiling faces". Its plot was about the honour and wisdom people with grey hair had. That was my teenage perception, only to grow up finding out that grey hair meant nothing in terms of honour and smiling faces was vanity or a means to extract something from you in often fraudulent ways.

So empathy, is a quality only some people have. Nurses, doctors, staff at volunteer places like op shops or aged care, animals lovers and so on, many people have empathy but many people dont. When I wrote the thread fortress of survival its theme was to -

• Dont immediately trust a stranger
• Conduct stages of contact to assess and reassess their trustworthiness
• Have means of disposal if they turn out toxic etc
• They must have some level of empathy not that I'll call on it, but the type of person I wish to enjoy in my life and visa versa

I had to learn to build my own fortress.

TonyWK

[Guest_1584]

Well , funny yeah l had similar perceptions when l was a kid. l don't know if it's just an Australian mentality or what though but yeah ,l realized later my perceptions of older, was pretty skewed to the reality. While some def' do mellow up and become more caring, gentler, understanding, most were just like any other age group and it all varied depending on their personality and characteristics. Pretty well the same ones they'd always had , maybe even worse with age. Ex w was only tiny and she'd literally get pushed and bullied in supermarkets , dived in front of, stuff snatched up before she could get to it , all kinds of stuff she was always complaining about the rudeness.

She was a nurse to but funny now really but with her l'd early on felt a bit embarrassed about the Dyslexic side,much younger then. l wasn't even sure what was actually wrong or even had the right term.lt was her in the end that also figured out it was Dyslexia and anxiety. Later l went to get diagnosed and yep, exactly. No one knew anything about much in school days.

But yeah to this day l still just get blank if l do mention things to someone mostly and l hear a lot round here saying to no one cares about their MH. Me l dunno, you'd have to be very close to someone to expect much anyway l mean most people have their own family lives and worries to deal with. No one even understands it anyway unless they're living it or with someone else that is.

rx