Female in a hetero marriage, asexual and in love with same sex friend

[SH-2600]

I need to talk and get this all out of my head. I have been in a hetero relationship for 29 years and have known nothing else. I loved my husband but have never been in love. I have always thought of myself as being close to asexual, but strongly felt that this was something I needed to fix, that “normal” people want to have sex. I require a close intimate emotional connection to even consider physical/sexual intimacy. My husband and I have always managed this quite well, and although our relationship is not as conventional as some, we definitely had a good close partnership up until the last 2-3 years. We have 2 children in their late teens. This year, things seem to have shifted a lot. We have drifted from each other a bit and our friendship that underpinned our relationship has started to erode. He is struggling with work, life, sense of purpose and says he is unhappy and lonely. Adding to this, I am now questioning my sexual identity again. There is a woman who is the only woman I have ever had romantic thoughts about. She has been in and out of my life over the years, for a range of reasons to do with both of us, mental health issues, distance, readiness for emotional intimacy etc. this year however, after the death of a very close friend of mine, she has come back into my life and we have grown incredibly close. We saw each other recently for the first time in 6 years. We are both now ready for an emotionally intimate friendship and we spent 3 days together talking and getting closer. I am in love with her. She loves me very deeply but it is entirely platonic from her perspective. She is married to a man who has taken a significant amount of her mental health from her and from her kids, but she loves him and will never leave him. She seems to have flicked a switch in me and I know for sure that I want to be with her, but that is not something that will ever happen. I also have my primary relationship with my husband that is falling apart. I am feeling overwhelmed since coming home from the time with my friend, everything is so pale in comparison to being with her. Rightly though, she has switched her focus back to her life, and I am finding that incredibly difficult. I am also wondering if this year is a year for any big decisions because it has been a shocker on all levels. I am afraid to run from the life that my husband and I have built and I am afraid of continuing to deny myself and who I am. I am struggling. SH

[SH-2600]

Hi Tim,

thank you for your last reply. I had planned to respond to both you and Esti67 in the one reply, but I really do struggle with that character limit! I may have answered some of your questions in my response to Esti67 above.

In answer to your questions though, I think my marriage is deteriorating because I am in love with my friend, not so much the other way around. I would definitely have regrets if I stayed, but also feel I would need to manage regrets if I left. I think it is not an either/or situation, that it is very much grey! I have replied to Esti above about the type of love I feel for my friend. I am still working it out, but all of these conversations are helping me to build a better understanding of that. But it is now also something I need to get past/beyond/over, in order to continue on. It really breaks my heart, but whatever I decide to do in my marriage, I need to stop being in love with my friend.

my husband is aware that our relationship has been deteriorating. It is a problem from his perspective too. The whole stay or leave decision may well be out of my hands. I am not sure what he will want. No doubt the counselling will reveal some of that, and raise more questions too.

I really value the opportunity to talk. I am also beginning to appreciate from your responses that you have/had your own tough struggles. Thank you for being generous with your time and kindness to help me think out loud.

SH

[smallwolf]

Going off on a slight tangent... In many areas before I say something to my wife I will try to find out the answers first to make sure I have all bases covered. And there are times when I won't say or do something. Why? Thinking of feelings of shame I will be subjected to for opening my mouth because of things that would have happened at other times in my life. Similarly, I like(d) to be in control and not liking uncertainty - there is sort of safety in the situation you know and being aware of the outcomes or consequences.

I wonder if any of this relates to you? (It seems a sense of sense of safety in the comfortable and stable life, and uncertainty with the possibilities.)

I can imagine that having felt asexual for a long time, and getting these feelings for your friend would be confusing and perhaps a little scary. Can I ask whether you have reads any books around the thoughts you have? I am not sure whether your library would have any books. For myself, I have read a few books on depression to get other perspectives and ideas.

Also, how does your friend feel about you?

Please do not feel you have to answer my questions. Some might be better as self-reflection.

I see my life now (figuratively) like the story of Monkey (Journey to the West) at least as far as the TV series was concerned - ups and downs, never finishing, always learning.

Peace and comforting thoughts to you,

Tim

[SH-2600]

Hi Tim

I am happy to answer questions. Writing helps me to reflect.

My friend does not feel the same way. My choices would be easier if she did. She says she loves me very deeply and with all of her heart. She says she needs me but does not want to be with me. She says I make her want to be a better person, that I inspire her and that it is only around me that she can relax and drop her guard and turn off her coping and survival mechanisms. There is no romantic or sexual attraction from her side though. There are times when I wonder if that is true, because our friendship is a little blurrier around the edges than other close friendships I have. I don’t mean there has been any crossing of lines but it is a little different. I can’t afford to think that, though. There will be nothing but misery in that for me if I let myself keep wishing and thinking there is a chance.Falling in love with a straight woman was not my best decision! Plus she is married and not likely to ever leave her husband.

Honestly, I am really feeling pretty rough at the moment. I am trying to be mature and thoughtful and pragmatic in the way I deal with everything, but today is a really bad day and I can’t kid myself that I am alright. I am very quick to tears and feel pretty emotionally wrecked. I am so sad. I feel like I am just waking up to who I am, which should be a good thing, but what I am waking up to is an absolute excrement sandwich.

Although I read a lot of books as a general rule, I haven’t read any books on what I am experiencing, but I have read lots of articles and people’s stories like mine. It has definitely been very helpful to do that. I have experience of getting myself through stuff as I have some underlying trauma-related mental health issues, which these days are well managed thanks to an excellent psych I saw for a year or two about 10 yrs ago, but it takes regular self care and check-in maintenance still to keep me on track.

Just when you think you have life sorted and you have stability and comfort, because that’s what you think you need, life takes you on a different path with more learning and ups and downs as you say. I think I am a bit like you in the way you describe yourself. I am cautious by nature, not a risk taker at all. I need to have all of the information I can get before making a decision to do or say something.

Thank you for your thoughts, Tim. I could do really do with a bit of peace and comfort.

SH

[smallwolf]

Hey, I am still here. I am procrastinating a little with an assignment that I am don't really want to do at the moment.

It would be normal to allow yourself to grieve a little about what will not eventuate - there is another person whom you love and recognise for a number of reasons would not work out. That does not change who you are - a person that cares greatly for other as well as your own family. I am also hopeful you will find a way for your relationship with her to move forward that is good for both of you. Be kind to yourself at this time though.

Do you feel the need to conform to societies expectations in what you do?

For myself, I have found it hard to be myself for if I feel that if I speak out about something now ... that I did not years ago (ergo agreement with a differing view) I am also a walking contradiction. Part of that would also be related to not wanting to upset others and in particular my parents. And if I do an alternative view to those who are important to me, what will they think of me afterwards?

What is it that concerns you about who you are?

Peaceful thoughts,

Tim

[Timshel]

Hello SH,

I only started reading your thread tonight. I hope you don’t mind if I submit my 2 cents worth of advice.

The first thing I would suggest is to try and abandon the idea of giving yourself a sexual identity label i.e. straight, lesbian, asexual etc. In ancient times, people didn’t have the same fetish for labels when it came to describing their sexual or even gender identity that we in modern societies seem to have developed. They didn’t feel the same need to comply with just one way of being and were more fluid and accepting in the way they lived their lives. This incessant need we ‘modern peoples’ have to ‘label’ everything and everyone is baffling. I personally think it is a coping mechanism we have developed over time to deal with the stress of a rapidly changing world. An attempt to establish some kind of order in what we perceive to be an increasingly disordered and chaotic environment. An attempt to control the uncontrollable. (I have OCD and I can see a kind of parallel here. OCD can be about having total control over something, not leaving any room for doubt or ‘grey’ areas because they cause a sense of dis-ease, of something not being quite ‘right’). And, let’s face it, nothing is more uncontrollable than human emotions especially when it comes to love and attraction.

I, personally, subscribe to the theory behind the Kinsey scale which ascertains that few of us are 100% anything. Only small portions of the population are definitively 100% gay or straight. Most of us sit somewhere along a sliding scale. If not exactly bisexual, then at least still capable of being attracted to or even falling in love with people of either our own or the opposite sex depending on circumstances. Even asexuality may, indeed, be subjective depending on the circumstances we find ourselves in. (That being said, I do understand that some people can have very low to non-existent libidos which inhibits their desire for physical and sexual intimacy with anyone but doesn’t mean they can’t develop emotional and romantic attachments to people). Then, of course, on top of this is the whole area of gender identity and where people sit on that scale. All this labelling can be so confusing.

We are human. We form all sorts of connections with others throughout our lifetime, some emotional, some physical, some romantic, some a blend of all three. We can love and can be loved in many ways. All love is special.

Damn this character limit, I’ll be back....

[SH-2600]

Hi Tim and Timshel,

Tim, thank you for still being there last night. I hope you got your assignment done! I am doing better today, but have a long way to go. I have to let go of so much of my relationship with my friend, my hopes, the depth of my love and even my expectations of the type of friendship we will have going forward. I had a conversation with her this afternoon along those lines. It hurts because I think she will take a step back. Perhaps it is for the best. I have to be more realistic about what that friendship can give to me. I am not an easy person in some ways. I want deep connection and significance in my life. But I can only be responsible for me and how I manage myself. I am trying really hard to be kind to myself.

Regarding your question about conforming to societal expectations. My answer is yes and no. I grew up with very clear expectations about how I should act as a girl, (think 1970s and 80s in a very small conservative rural community). I did not always conform though. I was openly challenging and questioning about religion, politics, equality. I played cricket and kicked the footy etc. However, I did feel a very strong expectation to marry a man, have kids and I did not even think to question it. Even now, there are some areas I will stand up and there are others that I am afraid to go against the expectation or to stand out in any way. Like you, having a differing opinion to key people sometimes impacts negatively (my mental health issues are often tied to this).

Timshel, thank you for coming in to the discussion. I love the way there are so many different caring and supportive people here. Human emotions are definitely uncontrollable! I also agree with what you say about labels, we don’t always need to look for them and right now, for me, it feels like it is all fluid and soupy! I agree that I am somewhere on a spectrum and who I love and how I love is what matters. I do think there is value in some labels though, because if they do fit, they carry some strength. I will always label myself feminist because there is so much fight and history associated with that label, calling myself that is a nod to the strong, and sometimes difficult women who came before me. And the label fits me, and with it comes a sense of belonging and love. I think if the label lesbian ends up being me, I will embrace it. But you are right in that it is not at all necessary right now and it may well shift - it is all about love and connection.

SH

[smallwolf]

On the assignment... it was starting the assignment. Got a bit done on it though.

I can imagine it would have been hard to talk to your friend about the situation. I hope it went OK for both of you.

In the 70s and 80s I would have been in 3 places - 2 rural communities and then a regional city. I have an idea of what you are referring to there. My interest in things was different to that of my family and relatives. It is also easier to learn to shut up than say anything. Enough on me.

It was only recently in the last couple of years with the help of my psychologist I have started to say what I think. So that is perhaps about 40+ years of not being myself. I would not change my tastes, but never spoke about them, fear of being judged or shamed. Of course, to work this out i had to write a summary of my life, and write a letter to my younger self.

When you said you look for deep connections - is that with anyone/everyone? Or the person you want to settle down with?

Do you think your upbringing has had an effect on the way you see yourself?

[SH-2600]

Hi Tim

I hope your assignment is still going well.

It was hard talking to my friend although we are close and can talk about most things. It is hard to not feel rejected, though. It is good to have a reality check too. I just can’t allow myself any hope there. I am trying to turn away from that and focus on some of the other stuff. I have my first counselling session with my husband next week so I need to work out what the important things are for me in that process.

To answer your question, I look for deep connections with a number of people in my life. I have superficial relationships and others that are contextual (ie people I work with), but I seek depth and meaningful connections with a few people. I don’t think it is reasonable to expect my primary relationship/life partner to provide everything in terms of meeting emotional needs. I think it is healthy to have close people outside of your primary relationship if possible (although I would not recommend falling in love with one of them!). I have one other close friend and a third who we lost to brain cancer earlier this year.

I think it is useful to reflect on your younger self and upbringing like you have. I think we need to know and understand ourselves well to get through difficult times, well to be our best in any times really. My upbringing definitely shaped me, and I would say that is probably the case for most people. There are aspects of growing up where I did that were idyllic, other aspects that were full of trauma, and other parts were just regular, but it all shaped me and impacts how I see myself. There was a very narrow range for what was considered normal, I guess. In terms of my sexuality, in a different context I may have realised my same sex attraction earlier, but who knows?

I am so very glad that I decided to post in this forum. It has been so comforting to have such caring people just there, and reading other people’s stories. I am so grateful for being allowed to work through some things out loud. Things still feel like a bit of mess in my life and I have no idea where it will end up, but I feel a bit more capable of getting through it.

thank you

SH

[Timshel]

Hello again SH and greetings to you Tim.

SH, in reply to your last post addressing me, I agree with you that certain ‘labelling’ can and does play an important role in society. Labels can be ascribed to various belief systems that bring people together under a collective banner. They can unite people, strengthen their resolve, enable them to effect change in any number of realms throughout society. Most notably perhaps in the area of social justice with feminism being the perfect example. Labels are also a necessary sociological tool when it comes to looking at the demographic breakdown of a population through a socioeconomic lens.

In my post, I was referring specifically to the ‘constrictive labels’ we use when describing someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity, areas I feel are fluid and ambiguous for many, if not most perhaps.

I may be wrong, but it is my theory that the whole area of sexual orientation can be a little more ‘blurry’ for women than for men. This may stem from the fact that, in general, women tend to have a stronger need for emotional intimacy in relationships than men and again, in general, tend to be better at providing it. Which is why I strongly believe that women really need other women in their lives whether it be family members, friends or life partners.

Speaking as a woman myself, I know that the ability to be emotionally intimate is something I find very attractive in another person. This has, on occasion, caused me to question my feelings towards 1 or 2 female friends over the years with whom I have shared a particularly strong emotional bond. I should mention that I have been married to my husband for 28 years now and have never been unfaithful even though it has not been an easy marriage. During our time together, however, I have, on a number of occasions, genuinely found myself drawn to the idea of being in a relationship with another woman. Even though I have only ever been in heterosexual relationships in my life, I did have sexual relations with another female when I was much younger and found the experience to be very pleasurable and natural. I also know that, although I did not act on my feelings, there have been times in my life when I have developed ‘crushes’ on other women. So, even though I have always been in heterosexual relationships, and am genuinely attracted to and satisfied by men, I could never define myself as 100% straight. Ironically, my husband is the only person I have told this to so far.

[Lillipilli80]

Hi SH-2600,

I hope it's ok to add to this discussion but your journey struck a chord with me, not for the same experiences you have had but more from the 'being at a crossroads' time in life. It sounds like you have denied your needs, desires, attractions for so long that of course it would feel hard to make that decision to choose a path just for you. There are many factors influencing a path that feels true for you. You still have love and respect for your husband but it sounds like there is some deep connection you crave that he was never able to meet. Let us know how you go with the counselling session with your husband. I hope that you are able to make some progress with him so that you both have a deeper understanding of each others needs.

Have you by any chance read "Untamed" by Glennon Doyle? You might find this a useful read at the moment.

Big hugs.

LP