When to cut ties with family

[white knight]

Yet again this xmas just passed I've endured toxic family behaviour which halved our xmas numbers as the family imploded. At 66yo it's not new to me. A family of which most have a mental health issue of sorts but even so patience wears thin over time. In my case narcissistic tendencies, triangulation, emotional blackmail and other horrible personality disorders make maintaining any stability near impossible. Even my wedding was ruined. So cutting ties, when and how do you go about it?

If you suffer any kind of guilt excess than normal that would make it hard to move on- you should IMO give every opportunity for some members to redeem themselves. Such opportunities are fair and kind to the younger adults that have got caught up, or in my case have fallen victim to become "flying monkeys" (google) which are people that follow blindly their narcissistic leader into battle. Before you know it you are in conflict with 2,3,4 or more people and the person you had an issue with is sitting back winding up his/her puppet strings. Most psychs say there is no cure for narcissism!

What is terrible is that some of these situations result in losing several family members when, had one of the 2 initial members in conflict had rang the other and tried to sort it, it could have been contained.

Certainly in a situation with a narc and some others, no contact is best. Communication will result in twisting your words. Silence can be seen and used as a weapon also, so be sure you aren't using it as leverage but to protect your mental well being. Dont forget you have rights- embrace them. Going NC could mean losing grandchildren, children, parents and so on. So remember one thing-

... as hard as the grief will be life eventually sorts itself out especially when you find stable empathetic and wonderful people to share it with. And that young boy down the road that doesnt fit in at the footy field just might enjoy your train set or Billy cart you make for him. The heart can go on and on...

TonyWK

[Guest_1584]

Hi Tony

Your wedding too , so sorry my friend. ironically with that sister of mine one of her things was stuff about my divorce she threw in my face too and some things about the ex too- all of which were so far wrong it just blew my mind.

No limits l couldn't believe the garbage and shots just spit firing out of her head over the phone and she's blown up 2 bad marriages herself anyway or that all this was on a good will Christmas call no less either that she def did not deserve.

My other sister said she might've been drunk - not that that would've been any excuse for this but no her speech was perfect, which made it all even more unbelievable.

Resignate with everything you've said there, even the kids, unfortunately l really like her two kids but although l rarely see them l  don't know what to expect if l do next time or whether to tell my d either about that call. That sister does not deserve niceties from my d after this but at the same time l don't want my d worrying about it, or her kids either. l know they've been around plenty of this with their mum though but she'll most likely put it all on me to them so l don't know what l'll get from them now.lt'd be a real shame it that's ruined to though.

And the twisting , my God you are not kidding, l'm still just gobsmacked have been right through since but l'm disgusted with myself letting this such total garbage ruin my peace through the hols like it has.

Hopefully with your own beautiful family and that over time you'll also be able to set any record straight with other too as you talk at any time in the future there'll be peace between you all and they'll know the truth about the others. That's my plan , as l know she'll be firing bs behind my back,probably has been a decade now l realize. So l've already talked to a few and they've had even worse from her so l do know they're in my court too and as l don't see most of the others these two will set any bs straight if it ever does come up.

And from there, l'm done done done with her, she's deleted from my world.

Good luck with your situation.  rx

[Juliet_84]

Any brilliant post Tony, and one that I’m sure is all too familiar to some of us. As a victim of DV abuse for many years, I experienced this first hand, particularly around Christmas time as I’ve noticed narcissists seem to really flare up at Christmas. Any chance to ruin your spirit, be it holiday (wedding) or otherwise and they’re there, making it all about them! My ex-partner was at his most abusive when he was drunk, and boy would the alcohol flow over Christmas time. It became that I would dread the holidays. His sister was also a DV abuser - while my partner abused behind closed doors, she preferred to abuse and belittle her husband in front of her family (and me). She would scream and yell and incite a lot of meltdowns (snatching away new toy presents etc). I would look to her family, wondering when they were going to call her on her behavior, but everyone looked at their feet and stayed quiet. Occasionally, her mother would leap in, but sickeningly to her defense when a child, pushed to the edge, finally snapped back. She would then turn on her own mother, the very person who was defending her and tell her to stay out of it. Meanwhile I was quietly weathering my own abuse. I never said a word and dealt with it as best as I could. Only to find out that my ex had been lying to his family behind my back to position himself as some doting and long-suffering partner of a demanding woman. My silence on the abuse allowed his lies to flourish. His mother pounced on them, keen for any evidence (made up or otherwise) that painted her children in a favorable light, and proceeded to spread the narrative far and wide. I was furious at the injustice of it, but I learnt that I had to be content with not everyone knowing my side of the story, I know the truth. The fact is that those who will believe lies about you so readily without speaking to you were always looking for a way to be against you. I don’t think there’s any option other than to remove that type of energy from your life. I think the main problem is that we have drummed into us, family first etc, and so we always carry an element of guilt in removing people from our lives, even when it’s more than deserved. 

[white knight]

Juliet,

"family first" is our obligation plus the inner love some of us have for siblings/parents etc. The negative energy as you point out is unavoidable and I've research narcissism a lot recently as my family is laced with it on the female side. Not always female of course but studies on some BPD sufferers suggest 5:1 female to male so it must be a method of power the female can obtain that can override male physical strength. I'm guessing. But the end result for me is fear of my mother that is 91yo, frail, short, me 66yo 137kg, ex weight lifting prison officer. I think you get my meaning.

In fact when my mother passes on I'll still be in fear of her, such is the psychological damage done. Now my sister has at 61yo followed in that same destructive path and ruined our xmas by recruiting her daughters against the rest of the family. Those daughters are called "flying monkeys" (people that will follow and obey commands from their leader) which is a great term to google. It comes from the film Wizard of Oz when the witch has crows that fulfill every command. 

One problem with narcissistic behaviour is that they dont realise they are carrying it out in a destructive manner. In my case my sister had an argument with my daughter then recruited my nieces so it was 3 against 1 then my sister tried recruiting me against my daughter.... you get the picture. So out of 6 people it could have been contained to 2. 

A crucial question I asked my sister- "have you told your daughters not to get involved with my squabbles with my niece and to protect your relationship with her"? Answer No. Therein lies the lust for power through adding obedient spokespeople to her arsenal. Triangulation. 

TonyWK 

[white knight]

HI RX, appreciate your input as always

"Twisting". Numerous websites that talk about narcissistic behaviour advise "no contact". Any contact at all could result in all sorts of approaches from manipulation to twisting words in a different context. That fuels our frustration which in turn raises the bar with the conflict. 

"No contact" is extremely hard to do. We have a need to express our point of view and most of us have a need to repair the rift to return to normal but the problem is- our normal relationship with a troublemaker is not in the boundaries of "normal".

I once worked near a firestation and had a rift with one firefighter. The chief firefighter asked me a few questions the main one being "have you spoken to him directly in order to defuse the issue". I said "no". He said "well I know he hasnt either so who is going to be the first to be the bigger person"? Fabulous question. So I did and we defused it within 2 minutes.

However, some family disputes cannot be salvaged. There is so many examples of peoples unfixable issues with family members ranging from will disputes to using children as pawns to emotional blackmail that ARE UNFORGIVABLE ... and therefore we should not feel guilt by exercising our right to a peaceful life through cutting ties.

TonyWK

[Guest_1584]

Thanks for that tony and same here . Also very interested in all the sort of topics you cover as well and very much relate too many.

l think she does have some narc or something going on. l've only spoken to her a few times in the last 5yrs but 2 were in calls that went exactly like the last.

There'll be no more of those that much l do know for sure. She's always been full of tricks this one .

As you've described she knew no bounds yep , all of the above. She even tried to blame me for my d's bp, l can't even say it. l was just gobsmacked so much so that the jaw was just dropped in astonishment with half of it and l wished to God later l'd had said more. But then at the same time it was all just so much shyt and bating anyway it didn't even deserve it so ldk. 

As you say l was hoping to repair things though andd why l even stayed on the phone  but that's the last chance she'll ever get from me l'm afraid.

Funny how it worked out with the firefighter , how nice was that eh. l'll try to remember that one and  def' have to try to use it if a situation ever arises.

Thanks for all your knowledge , topics and insights.

Rx.

[quirkywords]

Tony thanks for this topic and others thanks for replying. This is too close to home to comment but other comments here are helpful.