Toxic family dynamic

[blues23]

I really don’t know where to start ,

my father wants me to bring my child to see my mother ( this happens 3x4 a year birthdays, Xmas ect ) 

my mother has a long history of being abusive and just down right nasty to myself & my siblings a lot happened when I was growing up a lot of it sad , abusive , due to my mothers behaviours .

i have told my father I don’t want to go and visit my mother  anymore with my child due to the very real reality of history repeating itself, I’ve had to make up lies so that we don’t have to visit I have to go out of my way to not feel guilty for  not visiting and making my fathers Xmas miserable I’m trying to to protect my child from my mother as I don’t want history repeating itself and it will I know my mother . It’s almost like I’m leaving an abusive relationship all over again as my father won’t accept no for an answer and bully’s me into going to see my mother with my child so he can have a peaceful Xmas and whatever . How do I escape this situation? I’ve tried the truth , I’ve tried making up excuses, I want a relationship with my father but I’m starting to feel very trapped by his inability to accept my choices and it’s really making me feel guilty.its almost like I have to run away again when I’m a 40 year old woman . 

[white knight]

Hi, welcome

I've been in the exact same situation with my parents. My mother was sneaky and disagreed with nearly every parental thing we did with our daughters. I could no longer trust her at all. A 10 minutes walk with our toddler kids to a shop would actually be a 10 minute opportunity for her to ask about us and our decisions.

This behaviour is inexcusable. You problem is that your father feels caught in the middle and she is no doubt using him as her means to get contact going again.

What is necessary is that your child is yours, your decisions, just as your mother made her decisions with you and your siblings when young. Your turn. Grandparent often think they have some sort of authority over their grandkids, they dont. If they are good grandparents there wont be an issue at all.

I suggest you make a stand to your father, a serious meeting without distractions to inform him that you've taken on board his concerns but, you have many bad memories of your mothers behaviour that you believe has not had signs of regret nor change. That its your decision and your mother has been the villain in this whole episode or poor conduct. That your dad needs to understand that your decision is final and him putting pressure on you only hurts his relationship with you.

If you google "queen witch hermit waif" you might get an idea of how destructive some people can be and the reasons for it.

I hope this helps, reply if you need to anytime

TonyWK

[blues23]

Thanks for your reply white knight 

my situation is very difficult my father is almost depressed i caught up with my sibling today and he was there depressed asking when we ( I & my child ) are visiting. 

my sibling has been the lucky one doesn’t have to visit was kicked out at 16  and has had no contact with our mother for over 30 years , I wasn’t , my mother has paronid schizophrenia, she’s unstable  and I don’t trust her with my child , as my child is getting older and my dad made the huge mistake and told my mother I’d had a baby and I’ve been stuck in this forced ( guilt trip ) visits for years and it’s just never going to stop 

[ABC01]

Dear Blues23,

It may have to be about setting boundaries and being assertive about them. It will be uncomfortable at first. People don’t like change and may try to manipulate you into doing what is easier/easiest for them, but that is when you need to be assertive and stand firm.

It may be worth researching what boundaries and assertiveness means and then how that can be applied to yourself. Many people believe assertiveness means aggression/stubborn like behaviours , but it isn’t. It is rational and reasonable behaviour. Unfortunately unless you put your foot down and stick to it, they won’t believe that you are serious.

And you are in control of yourself and your own child. If they want to come to the party, they need to follow your rules or it has the potential to cease relationships.

 I know it is easier said then done. But practice does matter. And if people want relationships to continue,both people have to want it. And if there is conflict, both sides have to open to negotiate. Your child’s safety always comes first.

 I hope you are able to find what you need,

ABC01

[white knight]

Hi all,

Great post ABC.

Blues- essentially this is your dads problem and although it's natural to care for him and his depression, he has to listen to your mothers whining and complaining, that means he think the answer is for you to decide to bring your child to her- that isnt how these family issues work.

Your father has options, its a marital problem and therefore he should seek couples counselling to resolve them, not try to abuse your rights to get them done.

I agree with ABC, stand firm, its your life, your decisions, your child. Your mother violated you and your rights, nothing will change if you reunite, just more of the same.

TonyWK

[blues23]

Hi White Knight

i wish I had a happy update my sister intervened on my behalf with our father and well needless to say I’ve been cut off , hes cut me off the will  and no doubt never speak to me or his grandchild again so he says  I get nothing as per my dads words from my sister , she’s told him I’m not visiting our mother anymore and of course as I expected it would go as it has , he has made the accusation I’m not his daughter in the past for not doing what he wants which I have never forgotten and is constantly on my mind what If he’s not my father , maybe that’s why he treats me as he does maybe I’m not his daughter maybe that’s the real reason. what if it’s true . now I’m cut off I get nothing, I’m pretty numb because I don’t really care about money or the guilt trip I’m only sad for my child as she now has essentially lost her grandpa thru no fault of her own  I haven’t told my child  what’s happening because she’s young and I feel she will just blame herself for everything. I gave up half my childhood caring for my mother and dealing with her abuse so I’m cut off I gave up everything so my dad could go to work ,live his life I had nothing , this went on until I was 25 I couldn’t even finish high school like I wanted to  and I’m  now the bad guy for finally saying no . I just wonder if I’m wrong for being numb to my fathers behaviour because I honestly feel nothing , I think I’ve accepted my father is not ever going to be in our lives again but if I think of my daughter I get sad for what she’s lost  and that’s my only point of sadness . I just wonder if I’m completely numb to him now if I can just be this is how it is he’s not in my life anymore  and I think I’ve accepted it there’s no way back for him I don’t think so, he was just using me and my child to give him peace In his life and that’s the most shocking thing of all. 

[white knight]

Hi again

I really sorry to hear this news but not unexpected.  Again a similar thing resulted with my father because devotion got in the way of proper judgement. 

The golden rules is not to concern yourself of what you cannot change. He has his own right to side with your mother. The conclusion involves being cut out of their will. Sad, annoying but we have to deal with it. My mother passed 4 months ago. I hadn't seen her for 13 years, I wasnt in her will either but boy have I enjoyed a peaceful life.

More important is your daughter. Your father has made it clear he's willing to cut out her also. Your daughter deserves people that offer a stable forever relationships. 

When I stopped my mother being part of my life I adopted, unofficially,  a lady I'd known since 15yo as my mum, she's now 82. Last mothers day I drove 3 hours to deliver her flowers and a home cooked meal. She's stable, when I ring her she's always appreciative.

My sister 4 years ago behaved the same as my mother. She even tried to divide me and my adult daughter. Yep, out she went, I have clear boundaries for protection.  It doesn't mean its easy but self torture is a high price for abuse from others. 

They say "you can't pick your family" you can. 

Feel free to reply.

TonyWK 

[blues23]

Hi Tony WK 

it’s very hard I’m up & down, I wonder if I’m right despite knowing that my father essentially has cut me off emotionally, from his will and his grandchild  to punish me for not doing what he wants ( I personally don’t care about the will my father believes he can pay me to do what he wants and then he gets what he wants and has no guilt this was the precedent of my & my daughters visits to my parents house my  mother would nag my father to make me visit for birthday Xmas ect u name it I was forced to visit sworn at if I didn’t made to feel like the worst person for refusing, my daughter was Also dragged into the mix by my father to keep my mother from nagging him about us and why we don’t visit when there’s money waiting for us . I never wanted my mother knowing I had a child because I knew she would become a problem for myself , my father and my daughter which I also knew . I just wonder how do I deal with the disowning from my father ? And how do I tell my daughter she’s only young and loves him and I feel she will blame herself for his behaviour. And I wonder can I maintain my stance as I know I love my father but there’s the bit of like how can I ever trust him if all he’s done is cut me off and disown me and by in by my daughter as well as he is punishing me via her just to hurt me cause he knows it works well to make me suffer . It’s very hard I feel my sister has told her children about the  now estranged situation between my father and. I and how we my daughter and I will not be at any family events he’s at because he’s decided unless we do what he wants we are not worthy of being his family . 

I have to say you are brave for cutting those off that have hurt you it takes a while I guess to get used to the isolation of being  left out. 

[white knight]

Hi Blues

I can see clearly that a counsellor would benefit you greatly. There's many emotions at play and its compounded by even irrelevant topics like your daughter- let me explain.

You as the parents are responsible for the protection of your daughter until she is capable of making up her own mind with her own relationships, then its for her to wiggle through those. Your mother appears to me as not a suitable mentor to her so she loses her right to contact. Your mother is also of the character that limited contact will over time be stretched and the same problems return. 

The only important thing for you and your husband is to not allow the same type of behaviour to infiltrate you. Eg I suggested your husband make up his own mind as to his relationship with his parents. If you were to influence him then that is the same behavior that your MIL is taking with your FIL. Same with your daughter until she is of the age to mentally cope with manipulation and triangulation you need to protect her from that. No one knows how well your daughter might get along with her grandparents once grown up. She might love them and adore them and dismiss any trouble making so its really important for her to make up her own mind. Then no one can criticize you for demonising them. But you have rights and your obligations are not to your in-laws. You have zero obligations to them. And they have exercise their choices, your MIL had the option of being kind and gentle to you and respecting your roles and not interfering with your decisions. You FIL had the option of continuing a relationship but in the old fashioned way decided to in his mind not dishonour his wife. All their choices, you have choices also.

There is a thing called emotional blackmail. Using a will against you is one example (my mother did that). My dad supported my mother when he was alive, lose her and you lose him. Double whammy. I said to him once "so if I dont like my mother you want to force me to like her so I dont lose you? What do I do dad if I grow to even hate her actions and interference? He put his head down and said "thats the way she is, you shouldnt try to get in between us" OMG, I thought, I can win in this situation and so my interest in these family matter grew.

Narcissists, if they are narcs, will never be happy nor pleased with you. My sister 5 years younger than me - I've lent her money, supported her for 30 years with her eldest daughter that joined a cult, had her in our will but in the end she also had unrealistic expectations. I had to cut ties. My uncle when he was alive (brother of my mother) said "there's always been a problem with the women in the family". The destructiveness can be a huge challenge. 

Simplify it, try not to expand it- rather contain it. It's quite simple but you need your husband to agree with you not to risk your daughter. If you have that then you can remain cut off from your MIL that has caused violations of your roles. Some of your rights include- Not taking phone calls or texts, not talking to someone that causes you stress, limiting the durations of calls and texts, putting your husband and daughter as priority. 

So, read the 4 characters, seek out counselling and contain the destruction. We are not trained staff, we are peer advisers with lived experience. I hope I've helped. 

PS  This is very common among families.

TonyWK