My estranged daughter turns 21 today

[Jstar49]

Hi everyone, I'm completely new here so Hello and thanks for being here.

It's my eldest daughter's 21st birthday today and I'm feeling pretty emotional about it. She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years, and refuses to have any contact with me, my husband or our 10 yr old daughter. I was a single mum with her, stayed around her dad's town in order for her to have a relationship with him but finally left when she was 8, to return up north and be closer to family. That's a whole other story.

She was impacted by my PND, for sure, and things have always been intense between us. Chaotic too. Interesting, but not exactly stable. My marriage when she was 10 was the start of some kind of normal, and now I've never been so content or mentally/emotionally stable, even tho I still need to take care of myself, not get overwhelmed, and watch myself re: taking on others opinions/judgements.

I worry about her but I tell myself maybe it's for the best, maybe she just needs time and space to discover who she is, and learn to forgive the mistakes of the past and accept herself and myself for who we are.

It's hard tho. Today I just would love to see her, see her smile at me, hug her and tell her how proud of her I am. And hear whatever she has to say.

Anyhow, thanks for listening. I know there's others out there with similar stories. It seems like the world just needs a course in family harmony! It's so sad for the kids that get caught up in it.

Cheers,

Jstar

[ecomama]

Hey J*

You ARE valued as a friend by me, of course you are! AND if you hadn't noticed lol by many others here too!

My thread is too thick atm. Permission to avoid lol.

I admire your ability to retreat. This looks like self-care to me and I need more models of this! lol.
Oh I admire stacks about you.

I actually think I still have those friends, some since 3yo, because I'm authentic with them.
Real, hate bs, pretense. With the REALLY good ones, we can let our guards down and bring almost anything up. Even when we're on OPPOSITE sides of the fence!
And that to me is a sign of a true friend. I tell them that too at the time... then we get all warm and fuzzy together lol.
NOW we say I LOVE YOU at the end of each call and text, so I can't believe we're getting even closer as we age.

You can put ppl in concentric circles. I was taught this at 17yo when I was sent on a Leadership Course (lol!).
YOU in the centre & ppl you TRUST in the first ring then going out, measured by the "trust" you have in them.

I don't trust any one 100% because I outright refuse to.
I won't put THAT high an expectation on any one person.
We're not perfect & can't be expected to rise to all occasions 100% of the time.
No one has, neither have I and that's OKAY.
That's clear with my friends. So it gives us a set of very loose and understanding expectations / boundaries.

That friend who offended you, appeared to trigger you?
Now I wait 3-4 days before I try to work stuff out (C-PTSD is indeed complex).

Seriously, sometimes I've not brought THAT stuff up for years in that friendship.
Then ... over time... an opportunity presents itself where I can say "Hmmm do you remember when you said that to me?" and we've hit a ZPD. Healing past hurt and the other person GETTING it first hand. Perfect resolution lol which takes patience.
I don't intend to bare a grudge or anything, it's just weird how this happens over and over and over again across the long term.
Something like we're all driving our own Karma.

I LOVE that you're buying presents. THIS is J*.
If that is being consistently and persistently YOU? Then that's exactly what you can do with your own blessing lol. Ours too, GO FOR IT.
(Showing mercy?).
Expressing your LOVE.

Now I can open my mother's birthday present to me, maybe tomorrow in Wellbeing Wednesday, after I walk the dog shhh don't tell him lol.
I need some self-care, well alot, beforehand.

J* INTUIT what to buy.
You'll be spot on.

Love EMxxxx

[Jstar49]

Hey Em,

permission granted..

Thankyou.Tears of...just that you're such a darned good friend! Thankyou!!!

Yes, y'know when you first wrote that on my thread, about being authentically myself, I remember feeling really confused. I guess, so many ppl telling me what I should do, trying to fix this for me, it felt like everything I did was wrong and someone else would do it much better...

Well, someone else might, but there's no-one else who is mum to my kid, so I guess I'm gona just have to suck it up and continue on!

You know what helped me choose something? The fact that, I may not know what dress size she is anymore, or what colours she likes in her house, or what she owns now, but I know her shoe size! She is my daughter, and I know the size of her feet, and hands, and her ears, and...omg I'm balling my eyes out here!

Oh my friend opened these flood gates, dammit! Maybe one day I will chat about it with her-well it's more than a chat! But I don't mind really. It's very me to want to go there with what I'm feeling about stuff. And I'm so grateful to be in LD and not have as much on my plate, or else I wouldn't cope...

Oh gosh I admire your ability to be out there! Retreat I can do, easily. I guess it's my way of self soothing. But bad stuff tends to happen when I get wild...or even outspoken...hmmm...might unpack that one some other time! I know I have begun feeling very wary about fun, not sure if thats just about drinking type fun tho, or something else. Sorry not making much sense buuut.....grew up in very strict teetotaller family so there's a link there....

So much to integrate atm!

I LOVE the picture of you and your friends, mellowing and growing closer as the years roll on by....It's nice how, when ppl are in your life for years, you go in and out of closeness. Like this friend who opened up that old scab, she and I were much closer when our babies were small, and haven't had much to do with each other for several years. And then suddeny, over two soccer matches (spectating, not playing lol) we get that old appreciation for each other. We've both changed, but she's still lovely, and it's just nice.

Have you opened your mums present yet Em? I'm hoping it was something nice, something that touched your heart....am I hoping for too much? I think I understand that your mum is pretty sick, so maybe I am.

Love,

J*

[ecomama]

Dear J* I don't think you're sick. Hugs!

We're close friends, yet on opposite sides of the mother / daughter fence.

There's a tentativeness for each of us to bring that out on the table.
We can, any time.
But I can only imagine it would be very uncomfortable for you.

I can FEEL your hurt & it's so sad for me knowing you're hurting so much. xxxx

It wasn't that my mum was / is sick that forced NC. (She's been unwell since she was 3yo. My g/mother noted the moment to me a long time ago but never used the term "unwell" or such).

It was having to call the police on her - that violent story that forced NC.

It wasn't a flippant "oh I'm sick of this or that" - no way.

As parents we DO do the best we can. I know you HAVE done the best you can & I can see you will never give up on estranged daughter, nor should you either. SHOES it is. xxxx

My mother was so extremely challenged with her MIs that psych hospital staff told her never to have children.
The stressors from then on in her life, would've challenged even the most Mentally Healthy person.

No, haven't opened mum's present. Hold on... I'll go get it & do it WITH YOU.
I'll need an idea of another person "co-regulating" me as I do it. Brb.
Ok my cat helped by jumping up from his sleep to cuddle me.

The card has a lonely girl with long hair (me no doubt) sitting under a bare tree, burnt orange colours.
Message I can read this time;"BE WELL now on your birthday and all throughout all the year". She included a Wot's on for the Women's Health Centre, newspaper & mag articles on Feng Shui and esoteric info.

The present:
~ a fluro green ruler
~ a Newspaper for Aborginal people
~ 2 white face washers
~ a white towel.

Done now.

J* DOCS became involved back then bec of the police. I would've lost my children had I not gone TOTAL NC.
It was very serious & remains so.

I seldom ever allow anyone else to influence important decisions, a mistake some times. Having Authorities involved gave me no other choice.

I still have children under 18yo, so same rules go.

I won't embark on reconciliation, until she's in a Nursing home, then still may not.
Needing Staff to intervene should she escalate is a sitch I don't want for them. Or her.
We'd actually need a "Risk Assessment".

Being "like" my dad "all kind and won't argue" is something that triggers her. Amongst a billion other things about me. It's like she literally hates me.
My C says no to that.

Who knows.

Love always, your friend
EMxxxx

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J* (waves to EM & Sleepy),

Might as well run with that group hug vibe that's going around. Practice makes perfect, right? (*hugs*)

Yep, I had last week-end off (sorry, been longer than I thought in getting back to the forums). The weather was fantastic, we got the D&D group to do the game outside, and got out in the garden the following day.

I'm definitely in a better space than I have been (I do think weather has some bearing on my ups and downs). Thankfully I do know the hard times will pass, I just keep working toward better, even if I don't feel like it's doing much at the time. Thank you for your confidence in me. 🙂

I understand what you're saying about the space you're in with H. Been there a few times. I think there's a point where you've invested so much and worked so hard and you see the other person just isn't aware, or isn't trying, or in some cases is actively making things worse. Then you hit a wall, and the things you were feeling about it, all the drive to try and fix it, just disappears. At least, that's what I experienced with the last three relationships. It sounds like you're in that same sort of zone.

You said: "It's not that it's an awful marriage to be in, it's just lacking a certain something". From the things you've said, it's more than that. It doesn't have to be all-out abusive to be harmful - neglect and that lack of understanding and effort from a partner can be devastating, especially over a long period of time. You've see-sawed for a long time, struggling with the mistrust and back to trying and hoping, then back again. That can be really hard to live with.

What you're saying doesn't sound heartless and callous to me. It sounds like the end result of putting too much of your heart into something that isn't feeding anything much back into it, both in your marriage and your family. It's not for me to say stay or go, but I will say I understand the place you're in.

Re the discussion ongoing about friendship - I'd like to add that I value your friendship, too. You have been considerate and consistent in sharing the highs and lows, and I greatly appreciate that.

Kind thoughts,

Blue.

PS EM, brave of you opening the gift from your mother. Hope you're holding up okay now you've done it.

[Jstar49]

Hi Em,

That was lovely of you, to open the present from your mum with me. It's a strange one! Bit of a let down really. I can see I was aiming a bit high, to hope it had some kind of heart message in there.

So. You're mum's not big on self restraint huh? Thats how I interpret "all kind and won't argue". Your dad must have worked hard to balance her out. Or else been emotionally distant, like my dad...?

Em, you don't need to justify your NC with me. My own sitch is complex, and yes it hurts and all that (YOU know!) But I never compare. And if anything, knowing you has helped me to respect my d's decsion even more, becos I can be more at peace with her doing what she needs to do, for herself. Even if it hurts like hell. After all, isn't that what being a mother is all about? Doing whats best for your kids? Respecting their right to make choices. Thats my take on it. Not that it's how I was mothered, of course 😉

I wasn't saying I was sick, rather that I thought I may have been hoping for too much becos your mum is sick and maybe not able to give a heartfelt gift. Sorry, I was being a bit lazy with words and didn't express myself well.

Anyway, seems my second thought was spot on. She's not able to give a lovely, heart warming gift. What a pity for her. I hope the towels are clean and nice anyway.

My d's present (for her) arrived in the mail today. OMG they are sooo lovely! They are on my present shelf, and will be there to wrap at Christmas time. Buying these for her, at a time when I could afford it, sparks joy in me.

Works has become annoyingly small (annoying becos it's still there, a couple hours a day) so no more extravagances for awhile.

Cheers,

J*

[Jstar49]

Hey Blue,

Hugs!!! Yep, may as well jump on the bandwagon! (Wherever that saying comes from! before my time I'm sure!)

Not that I'm doing many of those in person. Covid crazy around here. People going OFF on FB, spouting a whole lot of nonsense. We haven't got any local cases but ppl still want to be covid nazis. Em it sounds a bit horrific down there- helicopters and sirens...?! I feel like you're possibly entering a war zone just driving out your street!

Your weekend sounds lovely Blue!! D&D- is that what I think it is? I used to roleplay in my younger years. Was part of an SCA group too- well my BF was but I totally dug the costumes lol. And the belt knife 😉 Medievalist reenactment group, for the uninformed lol.

Thankyou for your thoughtful feedback re H. So much is spot on. And funnily enough (not really, you know how it goes...) he's making bids for attention,and really trying...washing up! Controlling his outbursts. I'm watching. From behind my suit of armour. I find myself hoping for a future, then decide, the future is what I make it! I don't HAVE to 'succeed' in this.... I can live a different life, anytime I choose. Well, sort of.

Yep, the drive to fix it is disappearing, fast. Of course, this could end up being a blessing, if I relax so much that I'm not asking him to change. It could lead to more acceptance...

Having to face it that I just don't really like the person he is, and the stuff he says, and his viewpoint on so many things. I don't think I'd hang out with him if I wasn't married to him. Unless he had a lovely wife lol! So if I stop trying to change him, he's going to relax, for sure. It won't save the marriage, but it might make things more peaceful.

Thanks for recognising and reminding me that it has been an incredibly taxing see saw-ing; hoping, and choosing to trust, and getting that trust abused, again and again. Letting myself get close, only to regret it. Even last night, was feeling a bit guilty about not investing anymore. This convo reminds me that I have, invested. Hoped. Tried. It's ok to let go. Let him fight for it/us if he wants it.

Thanks for understanding.

And thanks for valueing our friendship. Me. It's very special, as you are very special.

I love our connection here💚

Cheers!

J*

[ecomama]

Hey J*, xxxx

Re: mother's present to me.
There was "a message" to me all right! She's a very cruel & twisted human as my C put in other words "you had an extremely physically and psychologically abusive mother, who was cruel in every way".
More things in the "gift" like "look at you, you're a lonely girl under a bare tree" & 'look aren't I a wonderful mother wrapping this gift for you up in new paper" & "I'm finally deciding to pretend to forgive you, you horrid ungrateful child (one of her faves since I was old enough to remember) because I KNOW you would have missed my gifts these past many years" and no I didn't. Not one bit in fact.
Not getting anything from her was a great relief.

If any of my children get any thing from her, they leave it for me to sort through.
Usually she has major attempts at "divide and conquer", playing favourites & all that caper she tried our whole lives to do with me & my brother.
She's possessed with evil.

As far as I can remember, the last gift I received from her was c15y ago. A macadamia tree seedling.

So her message is very clear this time.
She's expressing PITY & condescension, as per.
Completely unnecessary.

The things are all being given away. Not even keeping the ruler! the card is horrible. I took a photo of it in it's entirety and sent the pics to BF, he gasped. Said "was that what you expected?" & "WHO would even BUY a card like that?" & "it all has a weird vibe about it".
I expect nothing but peace but never get it.

I know for sure that your sitch is nothing like "ours".

I DO know that Alexa almost did what your d did over the many years of Courts.
It was very cruel to me.
She was influenced very heavily by her ex and his family AND demon and it's family.

She became so confused that she just gave in on it all.
Went NC with me so many times. This is probably closer to your sitch than the other.

As for my sperm donor ahem "father", a true Wolf in Sheep's clothing. Emotionally VOID except for insults to himself. We could've starved for all he cared. He had ZERO regard for us whatsoever.

My compliance in her yelling at me was bec of fear.
I agreed bec of the violent reaction if I didn't do so enthusiastically.

My conclusion: they were each terribly immature, very abusive, toxic parents. Who instead of looking at their OWN decision to "mate" & produce me, used me as a scapegoat for their bad choices.

Alexa loved my presents during her NC, she told me later. Hugs!

Love EMxxxx

[Jstar49]

Oh Em,

I'm truly sorry. No wonder you have so much strength and wisdom for difficult situations.

I'm glad to hear that Alexa liked your presents during her NC. Apparently some of mine have been received with pleasure also, but one never really knows. Our family teaches great appearances, with hate/despisement underlying. But as long as we can all sit down to Christmas lunch!

Fathers Day coming up. I'm not looking fwd.

Hi Sleepy, if you're reading along. Hope you're doing ok, and we're thinking of you.

Love,

J*

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J* (waves to EM & Sleepy),

Hug bandwagon it is, haha. Dunno where that phrase comes from. May look it up some time. Not today, very tired. Re covid, unfortunately people can get a bit extreme when they're scared. I understand vigilance, it's certainly necessary for me, but there are ways and ways of going about it.

It was a great week-end. Yup, Dungeons & Dragons, Blue is a big ol' nerd. XD I like the sound of the SCA group, I wasn't previously familiar with it, though certainly know of a lot of similar things. I haven't done any LARPing, but the idea is fun - have done a bit of Cosplay (anime costumes), unfortunately my friends are too pov and introverted for costume parties and stuff like Comicon hits on triggers now so I don't get to do that any more. Pity.

No problem, re feedback. If anyone gets where you're at right now, it's me. Yes, I know the behaviours you're observing in H now, too. When I told my ex I wanted out, he was doing stuff too, and making all sorts of promises. Heard too many of those over the years, they didn't mean anything from someone who never kept them. I realised the things he was doing that I'd been wanting for so long didn't mean anything either. I had gone without so long I didn't want them any more. He pushed me too far, and there was nothing left for him. I don't know if you're quite as far down that track as I was, it sounds like you're pretty close if not there. Whatever happens from here, I'm around to listen and support.

You absolutely have invested so much and worked hard for this marriage. Please give yourself credit for that. If you have it in you to do more, more power to you. If you need to let go, that is okay too. You have the power to make of life what you need it to be.

It is a great connection we have here. A safe and respectful place I value greatly. 🙂

Blue.

[jennyblue1445]

Hi

I understand. I lost one my daughters for over 10 years in a similar way. I still have little to no contact with her children, but in the last 3 years we have begun to forge a new relationship that is helping heal much of the hurt. Don't give into despair. Sending lots of love.