Does Success has to involve Struggle?

[Donte]

Hi All,

I often contemplate how usually stories of success involve struggle, to such a degree that it could be easy to assume from the outside that overcoming struggle was the only way. In my cultural background for example, (Greek), Odysseus had to endure decades of severe hardship prior to returning to Ithaca. Ancient Greek mythology as well as modern Greek culture and religion is full of myths, fables, stories, proverbs and colloquial sayings that perpetuate this notion. What's your view on this? What are the notions in your cultural background, faith, tradition but also in your family and what do you personally believe about it? On one hand, is mental illness a result of hardship, trauma and the inability of certain people to deal effectively and rise above these? And, on the other hand, in order to achieve a successful outcome in one's recovery is struggle necessary? How do you respond to that challenge if its presented to you by family, friends etc?
What if there was another way? Is there?

[Donte]

Hello Randomx,

I agree with you that the 'ideal' and the 'real' can be very different things. People in urban environments may romanticize the farm life and living in rural or remote areas. Of course, we wouldn't call Warrnambool a remote area, and as you have described the situation is very different there. The same thing applies these days in many other countries like Greece or Italy etc where the ones who didn't migrate may have become richer and more modernized than the ones who left and settled here in Australia.

I believe that there are individual circumstances and each case is different. Also, we live in a very different era with internet and technological advances that our grandparents wouldn't have dared to imagine! So I guess, we can't compare apples with pears.

What interests me though, as very well you have described, are the additional hurdles that one may be faced with due to long geographic distances when living in the country, and access to available services which often are not as plentiful as in a city setting. The choices may be limited in regards to availability of services and supports when one is in a remote area.

Technology, internet and the modern commodities have helped people to connect and receive information and support in ways unfathomable in the past. This online forum is a good indication of this. I guess, it would be different, and would require different strategies, if one is non-English speaker, they are in a remote area with not many others from the same cultural or linguistic background as them, and are not computer literate or technologically savvy. The level of disconnection and isolation would vary considerably I would assume. For this reason under the Aged Care Act, there are 9 special needs groups that the government sees as vulnerable and disadvantaged, and requiring different approaches and supports. These groups are a priority for government and funding and other resources are put towards these. Culturally and linguistically diverse people are one of those 9 special needs groups, as well as people living in remote areas. There are special programs and supports/services geared towards these group populations which may require a different approach in order to be reached and assisted to maintain their quality of life and continue living independently at home, particularly as they age.

[Just Sara]

Who gets to define success? Our challenges might seem futile when we see someone who doesn't have the ability to lift their own head from the head-rest of a wheelchair.

I've felt success in my gut and heart and gave thanks with utter humility because the struggle I faced was nothing I'd ever faced before; being trapped in my mind and body as a prisoner of MI.

I taught that young man to hold his head up independent of the strap that kept it in place, when others refused to believe it was possible. Was this my success or his, and; does it matter? Can I compare our success in each of these examples?

In my view, it's not success that defines us; it's our goals, intent, integrity, ethics, the path we choose, learning from our mistakes and our ability to 'cope'. Striving for success can be boring! Success can be boring. Some struggle with this. Is that ok?

If a man with millions of $ gets un-treatable cancer, who'll be standing at his bedside nearing the end, and why?

I 'feel' successful and valuable when someone says "thankyou". Is this enough? Am I enough? So that's it isn't it? Being enough, having enough, giving enough? As individuals, we've become complacent with being a part of our community. If success doesn't enrich all, is it a worthy endeavour?

It's the simple things in life we take for granted; MI reminds me of this. IMO, we're definitely NOT successful as a community. We've put individual monetary gain at the top of the success ladder.

Sez

[Guest_1584]

Yeah for sure , and l didn't mean to make like wealth was success , there's plenty of very unhappy wealthy people around.

To me success would be happiness , whether you own a tent or a kingdom , yaknow. Than man with the tent might be more content and at peace than the man with the kingdom , matter of fact l'd probably guess he might be if that's how he chose to live.

At least in my head l lately gauge success with love happiness and contentment , if we can find it and keep it. Because you realize as you get older , that's the real success in life , at the end of the day that what matters. To me that's the real intelligence . which just goes to show l'm not too bright huh , but oh well, we can laugh at ourselves too.

But yeah , l hear you Dont with all the differences.

Funny , growing up in Melbourne was some of the best times of my life but also some of the loneliest and most isolated . Always amazed me how you could be in a city of millionns yet so many people were totally alone.

l don't fit in well up here, 10yrs now, slowly molding. l still get the look , something different bout him , they know instantly , 50 50 are pretty good with it . still friendly and stuff but distance knowing we have nothing in common and that my personality is l dunno the words, just much more, well sort of everything than theirs . Some take to it like a duck to water but still have a look in their eye, others know straight away and keep their distance. It's amazing how wordly some are though. open and how well traveled some are.

l fully agree that city can be just as helpful and good willed , maybe even more so . My first impression was this whole country hospitality thing is a load of shyt tbh. and still is. Some are some aren't but most tend to be very cagey if you need a hand, watching their back

l've come to the conclusion that any life has trade offs and goods and bads , just depends which ones you prefer or land yourself in l guess.

l often can't handle melbourne anymore , too busy and the damn freeways everywhere. But when l 'm out in one of the suburbs l often think l could just click back into that life in one second.

But when the cars pointed to heading back up here, it's usually a beautiful feeling getting back to the less hustle and spaces and easy cruisier small town world l'm slowly getting use to.

l've lived interstate too and l always love that everywhere there are people from everywhere, all trying new lives . That's pretty cool l always think.

[Summer Rose]

Hi all. This is a really important discussion for me and I thank you all for your posts.

Hayfa's two questions, What if struggle is imposed? Why the struggle in the first place?, aided by the imagery of a child born into poverty which she so skilfully planted, gave me pause. The randomness of struggle, the unfairness of struggle, is difficult to come to terms with. While I can't claim to have the answers, I do wish to share what I believe.

The moment we arrive into this life, we all start learning. Importantly, we have to learn what it means to be human, how to live a life of purpose and how to make a meaningful contribution to others and our world. We are all tested by life, although as Hayfa points out to varying degrees and in different ways. Yet the learning outcome is the same for all--it is only through the resulting struggle that we learn compassion.

Compassion is literally the ability to suffer with others. From a wider perspective, it is possible to see how our compassion benefits the world. A global outcry of grief for Syrian refugees triggered by a single photo which is followed by an opening of doors, millions of dollars to help natural disaster victims in Haiti and the movement of doctors, nurses and medical aid to stop an Ebola outbreak in Africa. On a more personal level, most of us are here, right now, on the bb website talking, supporting and trying to help people we don't even know because we have struggled and now have compassion for others.

By helping others we gain purpose, meaning, perhaps joy. Donte might even call this success.

[Donte]

I agree Sez.

Success can be many different things for different people and also many different things for the same person at different times in one's life. Tonight I groomed my poodle and did an amazing cut - fusion - which took me five hours of immense concentration, scissoring techniques, clipping, extensions etc while watching youtube videos and trying to succeed in this professional highly challenging look! I succeeded! He looks as if he came out of a salon! I have a smile on my face and can't believe what a great job I've done! This immense joy and satisfaction I feel right now is immeasurable and even if others cannot comprehend this experience of creating something amazing and trying your best to achieve something (even if it's just a dog's haircut), for me right now is the ultimate success. Tomorrow I might try a new recipe, bake a cake, plant a tree etc.

Success is an individual thing for sure. And we are our own benchmarks. 🙂

[Donte]

Yes Randomx,

We all make our our success and create our own happiness. If for you it means not living in a big city then that's great! I agree that success is achieving whatever goal we have set, or even setting the goal, or trying. There are different levels of success and we taste these daily as we carry on in life. 🙂

[Donte]

I would definitely call this success Summer Rose, you are right! X

[blondguy]

Hi Donte

You have written a great thread and just to answer your original post

Yes....success (any definition) involves some struggle/pain/effort. Just my humble opinion but Summer Rose is brilliant with what she mentioned "most of us are here, right now, on the bb website talking, supporting and trying to help people we don't even know because we have struggled and now have compassion for others"

Nice1 Donte

Paul

[Donte]

Thanks Paul.

It's great to hear your perspective. 🙂

[Donte]

I’ve had an existential crisis for most of this current year... This forum is the first hope I’ve had in a long time. I feel a lot better reading the various perspectives in here instead of always focusing on mine. ❤️