Does Success has to involve Struggle?

[Donte]

Hi All,

I often contemplate how usually stories of success involve struggle, to such a degree that it could be easy to assume from the outside that overcoming struggle was the only way. In my cultural background for example, (Greek), Odysseus had to endure decades of severe hardship prior to returning to Ithaca. Ancient Greek mythology as well as modern Greek culture and religion is full of myths, fables, stories, proverbs and colloquial sayings that perpetuate this notion. What's your view on this? What are the notions in your cultural background, faith, tradition but also in your family and what do you personally believe about it? On one hand, is mental illness a result of hardship, trauma and the inability of certain people to deal effectively and rise above these? And, on the other hand, in order to achieve a successful outcome in one's recovery is struggle necessary? How do you respond to that challenge if its presented to you by family, friends etc?
What if there was another way? Is there?

[quirkywords]

Donte

In my culture you work hard and you reap the success of your work, if you are not succeeding you are not working hard enough. I think hard work involves a struggle and hardships but you never give up.

My family saw my bipolar as immaturity and they wanted to know when I would grow out of it.

I think people who struggle and then overcome have learnt a lot and are often more compassionate than people who have not struggled.

Thanks for the questions.

Quirky

[Donte]

Hi Quirkywords,

It's the same in my culture, like in so many others. There is fundamentally nothing wrong of course, with working hard to meet your goals and reach your dreams (if that's what you really want to do). If struggle is involved in order to achieve the outcome you desire, then it's your call. Nothing will stop you from your dream. I think it becomes more of an issue when it turns to expectation. I guess everybody struggles with something at some point. Some struggles may be necessary and inevitable part of life whereas others could be avoided.

I like to remind myself that I am a human being, not a human doing. Many people worked hard and struggled in order to secure a better life, a home, and some security in this country upon their migration and often they paid it with their health and a loss of significant relationships.

Some indeed have become more empathetic and compassionate as a result.

[Summer Rose]

Hi Donte. I read your post a few days ago and I've been considering it ever since because it goes to the heart of a troublesome question that I have been mulling over for some time.

I have come to believe that struggle is part of the natural order of things and that nothing meaningful will ever be achieved in life without some measure of struggle, frustration and hard work. Any photo of a mother holding her new born in a birthing suite will explain this thinking better than I ever could with words.

I do not accept that mental illness is "inability of certain people to deal effectively and rise above" hardships. It is illness. Plain and simple. Just like cancer, diabetes and heart disease are illnesses. And all illnesses require struggle to heal.

It helps me to remember that there are 7 billion people on our planet and any one of them, at any time, could be experiencing a mental health condition. We are all the same. Remembering that there are others suffering, helps one to feel connected with humanity and less alone with their pain. Considering that other people may be suffering worse than you, helps one to develop compassion for others--and this compassion is valuable. It can be channelled to give purpose and meaning to our lives. I am part of the beyond blue community for this very reason.

The real question for me, the one I can never come to terms with is, does mental illness take more than it gives?

[White_Rose]

Hello Everyone

It seems to me that you need to define success first. Is it achieving a particular goal, having lots of possessions, having power to do what you want, being content with what and who you are, trying to copy someone else in the hope you will be as happy or wealthy as them?

Success is such an individual word. We teach our children to work hard to get good marks at school, to go to university, get a good job, marry, have children etc. This is socially acceptable. What about those who do not have the resources to accomplish one or more of these success markers? What if the measure of success for some has nothing to do with the above suggestions.

Mental health is a tricky beast which seems to come and go at will. So are we successful in patches? Success because we have a respite from our MI. Back to a relapse, being unsuccessful and rejoining the rest of society. Are we successful because we are happy? A bit of a chicken and egg story there.

I most heartily agree that experiencing hardship and struggle can make us more compassionate towards others. I also believe it can make us more compassionate towards ourselves. That is the big success story I believe. Once we have stopped trying to get to the top, even if the top for you seems mediocre, we leave ourselves free to help others, to live together in peace, treat each other with respect. Donte, I love your comment, I like to remind myself that I am a human being, not a human doing. I think that just about sums up my feelings on this.

I think success/happiness are small bites which we need to treasure every day and not walk past because they are small successes and therefore not valid. Mindfulness is a new word these days, though not a new practice, and that is exactly what it is about, being present in every moment of our lives. Counting our successes, if you want to do this, in the minutiae of daily living is the best way because we really only have control over what we do individually. Working hard to be the best we can be is a very different goal to material success and it does include our emotional stability.

Mary

[Donte]

Hello Summer Rose,

Thank you for your contemplation upon this. Thank you for taking time to respond. I also believe, as you said, that any mental illness is just that - an illness. I often wonder though what may contribute to this illness or what circumstantial, environmental, physical, relational, financial, spiritual, social, sexual etc factors may increase the risk of developing a mental illness. If there are risk factors as such, then would removing or minimizing these risks also eradicate the mental illness or minimize the impact on one's life? If this is true, then is it hard to achieve it? How hard does one have to work to overcome the illness (if that's ever possible). I guess it's the same if one tries to beat cancer, or MS or diabetes etc.

I agree with you that being involved in community and mindful of others' suffering could give perspective and help someone manage their condition in a different way. Of course everyone's pain is the greatest they feel for themselves and comparing it with worse cases won't minimize the pain per se, but it could help develop mindfulness and thankfulness for things could be worse.

As for the last question you pose, mental illness, like any other illness, probably takes more than what it gives, even if we could use it to see things from a different perspective and grow, cultivate kindness and empathy and forgiveness, endurance, patience etc. The reality is I guess, given the chance, most would prefer to develop these gifts without the pain.

[Donte]

Lovely comment White Rose.

Some days success can be to get out of bed. Others, bake a cake, take a bath, smell a rose, hold a child's hand or pet a dog. It is a very individual thing. Being mindful of our self, others, the environment we are all part of and the interconnectedness of everything and how we all affect/impact on each other and how it all comes back to us in the end, help us understand and see things from a different perspective - that's success for sure! 🙂

[Summer Rose]

Hi Donte. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and continuing the conversation. Thank you.

Thinking about your first question, I believe there are many risk factors that contribute to the development of mental health conditions, such as the ones you listed. Removing or minimising these risk factors would surely have some impact, yet with so much riding on pre-disposition/genetics and an endless list of risk factors to consider, I don't know that one can ever successfully protect oneself.

Five hardened police officers may attend a horror smash and only one may go on to develop PTSD. Three teens may regularly smoke pot and only one may go on to develop anxiety. Ten women may live in poverty and only one may develop depression. Who falls ill and why? There are so many possible combination of factors that we might never really know.

I don't believe that anyone should ever stop fighting their mental illness. If one is lucky enough to reach remission that is a good thing. If one can manage the pain and function that is a good thing. And if one must endure a life-long struggle but is able to achieve some good days then that, too, is a good thing.

Some things can't be fixed, they must be carried. And I am not just talking about serious mental health conditions but also many different types of life altering/terminal illness, loss, traumatic life experience, etc. I choose to believe that there is meaning, the gifts you refer to, in the "carrying". Like you, I am confident that most people would choose to develop these gifts without the pain. But do they? Perhaps struggle is a necessary ingredient of life.

[Donte]

Thanks Summer Rose,

Yes. As someone told me once 'we are all made of the same dust'. But someone else added, 'Yet, not all are of the same material...different fabrics, different strengths, different care required....'

As you very well said, a number of people go through the same experience and yet they all respond and are affected/impacted differently. Personality, character, idiosyncrasy, life experiences, upbringing etc all contribute to the way we are. DNA and hereditary factors are also into play as well as whatever we learnt and copied from our parents while children. I guess, we don't need to know the 'why' to do something about it right now. I believe we can just work with what we have in our hands right now.

And, perhaps, struggle is necessary ingredient of life, but maybe pain isn't.

Resilience levels vary and even though it may be good to understand the contributing factors and minimize the risks to one's illness, the reality is unless we develop the strength to do something about it, to initiate change, to say 'enough is enough' and start doing something differently, no matter how much awareness and knowledge we have around the why we developed the illness, is not going to make any difference to the present day to day living.

[Summer Rose]

Really good messaging, Donte. Thanks for the chat.