Becoming emotionally numb...

[PrincessMilktea]

I'm beginning to lose my emotions, or at least, the intensity of my emotions have declined. I have no life passions/motivations and this didn't bother me so much before, but recently after some existential angst/depression (where I've logically concluded that life is ultimately meaningless for reasons too long to share here) I've become less and less motivated to continue functioning like normal. I'm currently 17 and I see no point in pursuing a degree in economics anymore (I only chose this subject out of mild interest that isn't deep enough to be called a passion) and now I am more or less going through the motions of this prosaic existence but no longer find myself feeling any satisfaction or even dissatisfaction. Occasionally I get a dull ache in my chest because I find everything is unstimulating/predictable/boring and I have tried therapy, but my therapist doesn't know what to do with me after I explained my reasons for being a nihilist.

I believe that my nihilism wouldn't be a problem if I at least had some pleasurable activities I could partake in regularly, but nothing (that I can reasonably do at my age/budget) so far has given me pleasure and I can only assume that drugs/alcohol will help. Obviously I'm aware that this is unhealthy, and so I'm leaning towards something less harmful like antidepressants, however I can't access the prescription and money for this because I don't want my parents to know I'm depressed/anhedonic. Before you advise me to tell them, just know that they are from a somewhat "backwards thinking" culture that doesn't understand mental illness and depression very well, and will probably find it a burden or cause for stress if they have to deal with me. This is not because they don't care, but because they don't understand it and I'd rather not have to placate them when I barely know how to deal with it myself. I also have insomnia, and the last time I tried to explain it to them, it caused me a lot of anxiety and upset because I couldn't communicate to them in a way they could comprehend. I'd be grateful for some advice (and yes I do have a stable social life, I do normal teenage girl things like going to the movies and attending parties, however I'm almost always faking my excitement and honestly feel nauseated from being around other young people. I feel most isolated/lonely when I'm in a crowd as opposed to being alone because I feel like our differing life views just punctuates my social insularity further).

[White_Rose]

Hello Princess

I must admit I have not come across this difficulty before. If nihilism is correct I have to wonder how the human race has survived for so long. Even the animals find life has a purpose. To be born, grow and die seems a pointless exercise unless the growing is filled with life, laughter, joy, experiments in life and at time sadness. However you have not written here to discuss nihilism so I will move on except to comment that Nietzsche was diagnosed insane when he died.

Let me start with your parents. They are a product of their generation. No idea how old they are but guessing from your age I presume your parents are likely to be late 30s or early 40s. Mental illness has been a taboo subject for many years at least in Western culture. I believe the background for this has been the extreme behaviours caused by mental illness before the medical community starting to develop good treatments. It was shameful to have a MI and families went to great lengths to disguise this. Hardly surprising the effect has lingered and is only now MI is accepted.

I can well imagine your parent's distress to learn their daughter is unwell but I think you do them a disservice by hiding it. On Beyond Blue we are a community of people with various types of MI. Many are your parent's age or older and struggle with coping. Others come here to get help to cope with a child's MI and genuinely try to learn as much as possible. I am not suggesting you discuss this with them unless you wish.

You are old enough to have your own Medicare card. Some doctors will bulk bill for those on low incomes. I suggest you ask your usual doctor what is the policy of that medical practice for teenagers. Have you thought of getting a part time job? This will make a visit to your GP feasible and you will also be able to pay for any prescriptions. Remember your GP cannot discuss your medical condition with your parents without your permission. If you had decided that drugs and alcohol were a good way to go, how would you pay for these?

Do you receive any pocket money from your parents? You could by your prescription meds with this. In any event I think a discussion with your GP is essential. How did you find a therapist previously? Is this a psychologist or psychiatrist?

You say you do not want to pursue a degree in economics. Are you already studying in uni? Change your course an do something that is more attractive to you. Take a gap year. I hope you will continue posting.

Mary

[PrincessMilktea]

Hi Mary, my therapist was for my insomnia and my vice principal was the one who referred me to her. I believe she was a psychiatrist (not sure, never thought to ask). As for a part-time job, I'm far too busy completing my HSC this year to consider it, and my parents would never allow me to work at this time even if I wanted to. I don't necessarily get pocket money, my parents are of the belief that should I want anything, I need only to ask them to cover any expenses I might incur (which of course brings us to the not wanting them to know I'm depressed dilemma).

And I wasn't serious about the drugs/alcohol thing, though I do have friends who could provide me with both if I wanted to. As for my nihilism, it's uncommon to find others of the same belief simply because most people don't think that far or merely don't care because even if life is meaningless, it doesn't mean you can't live like a hedonist and so pleasure becomes an incentive for them to live a happy life. My problem arises because I don't know what makes me happy, nothing I try or do seems to work (and no uni degree holds any real appeal to me, economics was the half-hearted choice I made after lollygagging in indecision for so long). I simply have a problem with entertaining myself long enough to live out the mediocrity of existence (uni, work, friends, marriage, kids, retirement, death). All these things are an exhausting chain of events I'm not entirely convinced is meaningful or worthwhile for me, though they may be for you.

Also, Nietzsche died of pneumonia I believe (there is still much debate on this, many believe it was syphilis, others opt for dementia, could've been opium, take your pick). He suffered from medical conditions that have more to do with an actual neural defect than an intellectual or existential one, if that's what you were implying by saying he was going insane. But thanks for the advice, I might consider seeing my GP if all else fails.

[White_Rose]

Hello Princess

Thanks for your reply. I was saying that when Nietzsche died he was already mentally unwell. I'm unaware of the actual cause of death.

If you saw a psychiatrist you would have needed a referral from your GP in order for Medicare to give you a rebate. Paying the full fee would have been in the order of $200 - $300, possibly more.

Have you read Man's Search for Reason by Viktor Frankl? He was one of the Viennese trio, though I cannot recall the exact title. Frankl was a Jewish psychiatrist caught up in WWII. He was sent to several concentration camps and survived. The book is not about the horrors of these camps or war. It is his observations of life in the camps and who lived/who died. He believed men (people) lived or died because they had/had not purpose in life. I found it a readable book once I grasped it was not a horror story. You may find it interesting and something that stands against nihilism.

OK I can see you do not have access to your own money. Sad really. I used to give my daughters an amount every week for doing jobs and also to buy their own clothes. How they spent it was up to them. We believed in allowing to learn about budgeting in a safe place as once they left school and uni they needed this skill to manage in the world. A pity you cannot suggest this to your parents as a useful skill. However I also realise it sounds as though I am suggesting you deceive your parents and that is definitely not my intention.

As far as uni is concerned, do you need to make that decision now? I suggested above that you take a gap year. Many students find it difficult to make the transition to uni from school and have found taking a year off in between is helpful. During this time you could either find a job or engage in voluntary work, eg. working in your local animal centre caring for these animals. Of course there are other avenues. These are merely suggestions which may resonate with you.

Looking for happiness tends to be a self-defeating task. Happiness is what we feel for short period because of a particular set of circumstances. It's not something we can hang on to. Mostly people settle for reason and contentment, very different attitudes to life. I suspect your nihilism may stem from what I see as the desire to amass as much as possible of this worlds goods which only leads to wanting more and satisfying less.

It sounds as though your parents take very great care of you which may feel claustrophobic.

Mary

[Dorian_Gray]

Princess Milktea

You’re clearly a highly intelligent and articulate person especially for you age, to have come to such a conclusion is interesting, often people take much longer to realise some of the things you now understand. I can’t offer a huge amount in the way of advice but will make an attempt.

I can understand Nihilism and in large part share it, I see no point to existence overall, at best one might, as you indicate, live hedonistically based on what one considers pleasurable (which as you note differs for each individual). You are correct, very few people, therapists included, understand such a point of view, and by and large become very uncomfortable when you raise such issues as it forces them to think about their life in a way they would rather avoid.

You could perhaps go through a listing of hobbies or activities you haven’t tried, seeking any needed funding from your parents, in an attempt to find something that does interest you…off the top of my head I would suggest something like puzzles or complex video/card games, or perhaps a debating website, as I suspect you need a high intellectual level of stimulation to keep you interested. Perhaps even a teenage romance if you can find someone you like.

As someone further down the track from you (30 having had nihilistic views since around 16) there is some benefit in going through the motions of life, to the extent that it fills the time, and in particular study can assist in getting a relatively better paid job and hence assist in accumulating funds so that in the event you do find something that gives you pleasure you are able to attain it all the more easily. I suspect you’re more than capable of easily succeeding in an economics, or any other degree, and for this reason would suggest you definitely do a degree in something, even if you switch out of economics later at least get into university, as whilst you don’t necessarily have to have all the things you listed (marriage, kids, friends) you will need money to survive.

In addition I would suggest arranging either via therapist or GP to get a blood test of some kind to check for any imbalances, if you lack of emotion has been sudden it could be something hormonal.

Hope you're doing well in your HSC, and definitely use this forum to find some ideas and chat with people who have had similar view points.

[PrincessMilktea]

I received a mental health care plan for my insomnia from my GP (if that helps explain away the confusion). As far as I recall the service was free after that, but obviously paying for medication wasn't. And no I can't say I have read that book, I'll add it to my reading list. Though I guess you could say my belief in nihilism is fairly concrete until logic/facts prove otherwise, but thanks for the recommendation I'll try it out.

As for uni decisions, I don't have to choose now, but I also don't believe taking a gap year will be helpful either. To put this into context, I'm currently doing something called distance education (which is basically like home-schooling), I go here because I have severe insomnia and learning from home will be better for my ability to retain information. Currently I'm doing my HSC over a 2 year course because I've been absent a lot in my previous school, and so I have a lot of time my hands now and consider this to be my "gap year". I've thought about my future career to ad nauseam and honestly, I know for a fact that I have no real passion/dream that I want to achieve and economics is the closest I'm going to get. I feel like I am not really living, but merely existing because of this.

Emotionally I've begun to shut down too, I truly feel apathetic to the world and it's concerns, and unlike my peers, I don't feel any excitement for my future. I barely look forward to waking up. On the up side, my insomnia has gotten a lot better from this onset of depression and emotional numbness, I tend to sleep in for longer hours now and it's honestly become a way for me to combat any negative feelings I get. I know you think I'm trying to amass happiness but in reality I'm really just desperate for something other than this constant apathy or depression. I don't need to be happy, I can settle for contentment or simple satisfaction.

Thanks for talking to me Mary, I definitely feel a little better talking about this to someone.

[PrincessMilktea]

Hi Dorian Grey, it's nice to see someone else who shares my point of view without trying to convert me otherwise (the username immediately settled my worries, and I knew I found a fellow hedonist in you).

In terms of hobbies I'm already into gaming and I'm also an active debater in real life (though I've come to a point where I no longer feel inclined to win a debate against others, unless those people are close to me or otherwise important to my existence). As for romance...well my tastes range to older men so that will be awkward to introduce to the parents. That aside I also feel like entering a relationship with so much emotional baggage and cynicism will be unfair on my partner, and would rather delay all that until I'm unencumbered with depression/angst. But thanks for the suggestions, I will try to find more hobbies as soon as my HSC is over.

And yes I understand the importance of money, hence why I concluded that a degree in economics will be a lucrative career so at the very least I can afford to do things that actually make me happy even if the job doesn't. The problem is staying motivated until I get there, which hopefully I can fix by getting some antidepressants to quell any negative emotion. I find negativity to be useless and an inefficient use of my time, but unfortunately you can't always reason with your emotions no matter how irrational they may be (here is the crux of the problem). But I'm very interested to learn how you managed to survive this long, I've always extrapolated in my head that nihilists generally have a shorter life expectancy than others and so you're age is a surprise to me, perhaps there's some hope after all.

Thanks for the suggestions, but I've already had a blood test done (for my insomnia) and I'm completely healthy. I suspect my dwindling emotions have more to do with an actual disinterest in people and common human aspirations rather than something hormonal. Thanks again for chatting with me, very useful in alleviating some internal anarchy going on in me right now.

[james1]

Hey PrincessMilkTea,

I'm 25 and I don't consider myself a nihilist but not because I see there being a point to life, but rather because I disagree with the whole concept of looking for a purpose at all. So I guess I just...don't engage with that side of philosophy even at the most basic level.

Instead, I just try to live and do the things I want to do.

For example, you mentioned gaming - I love to game as well and when people say I'm wasting my life at 25 gaming, I say it's what I enjoy. I'm not wasting my life if I don't see there being a set purpose for me. But I also like to draw, to travel, to build things and learn things.

I think our difference from the norm can be quite confronting for others and that can cause us a lot of anxiety as well. That isolation can often manifest in us withdrawing from life in general.

I guess all I can say is that there are others like you who share that world view and it's not a bad one. We just need to be careful that it's not something that stops you from doing the things you like doing.

Do any of your friends also enjoy the things you enjoy? Sometimes spending time with similar minded people can re-invigorate our passion for something when we found ourselves in a slump. Otherwise, I used to find comfort in an online gaming community for a DnD-style computer game modification. That was nice because I didn't have friends around me who were similar, but I could just be myself with these people.

James

[PrincessMilktea]

Hi James, I totally relate to some of the things you've said. I'm into gaming but most of my friends aren't (girls generally aren't interested sadly) so it's hard to find like-minded people. I also love D&D (Neverwinter) but after pvp became more pay-to-win and all about gearing I lost interest in one of my favourite MMOs, it really was a favourite of mine too. I get what you mean by trying to find others like me, but that often leads to befriending boys and honestly some of the sexist/creepy language they use on me after they realise I'm a girl is a huge turn-off from finding friends.

The other day I was playing CoD, and as soon as they saw my gamertag they immediately treated me differently (drilling me with questions about the game to see if I actually knew how to play, how much I played etc). Not fun. In real life this is worse, and honestly, I find girls a lot nicer than boys so I probably won't seek out a gaming community anytime soon. But glad to hear you've found people you can be yourself with 🙂

[james1]

Ah, yeah the gaming community can be horribly sexist 😞

Funny you mention Neverwinter - the community I got into was one of the Neverwinter Nights modifications. I found that the one I joined had a lot of people in their mid/late 20's and 30's, and there was actually a surprising mix of males and females.

Though admittedly, that was a pretty rare community.

Perhaps it's a matter of looking at your other interests then. It'll be a bit difficult with your HSC around the corner, but even doing a good overseas trip or even gap year after your HSC can be really beneficial when you're struggling to find your place like this.

I found that going overseas to the UK on my own for 4 weeks was one of the best things I've ever done from a self-development point of view. The change of scenery really helped me to just let go of the "me in Australia" and just try to experience what I wanted.

James