Frustrated with Squalor

Patsy2010

Hi

Not sure if this is the correct place, but I am at my wits end living with someone who doesn't see the squalor as an issue.

I have recently moved back in with the children's father after more than 20 years separation, as housemates. This came about after he offered me a room, and as i struggle with current rental prices, this works well for me. He doesn't charge me much for board.

Before i moved back in, we had the discussion about the state of his house. Filthy is the only word i can use for it. I discussed several issues which he agreed on

Fix the water. There was a burst pipe over 10 years ago, and rather than get it fixed, he just would turn the water off at the mains, then turn mains on to have a shower use toilet. It took 12 months for that to happen
Fix the electricity. Something went wrong with the electricity several years ago, and has not been fixed. There is no electricity to half the house. Extension cords are run from the lounge to two of the bedrooms for electricity, and we use a torch to use the shower or toilet at night. 2 years in and this still has not been fixed.
Cleanliness. I discussed that I could not live in the mess he lives in, and he agreed that I could clean the house and sort it out to however i wanted it

There are many issues. Hoarding is one of them. Example. One room i cleaned out you could not open the door for all the stuff. An example is old sheets that are more than 30 years old, faded and dirty. but cant be thrown away in case they might get used. Boxes of stuff packed up in the hallway, mostly paperwork like old catalogues, newsletters etc. The food hoarding is an issue also.

Hygiene issues Bathroom ceiling black with mould that try as i might i cannot manage to remove. The bathtub is stained brown with dirt that i cannot remove.

The lounge suite is black with dirt and i refuse to sit on it. Carpets are filthy and smell. In fact the whole house smells.

Moving on to the kitchen. Stovetop was so thick with grease it could not be used. Benchtops filled with dirty dishes, and covered in cat hair. Recycle rubbish just thrown on floor. Cupboard thick with dirt and mould. Floor filthy with years of built up grease and dirt

Oh and i have to mention the holes in the walls where the burst water main has caused rot damage, or the rippling floorboards in my room from the same issue

SO

I cleaned the kitchen thoroughly, as well as the loungeroom. I truly though that he just needed a hand to get past being overwhelmed with the mess and a little direction to keep on track.

I cleaned the pantry out of massive items that were out of date. Made some space and he has now filled it to brimming again. (we have 35 cans of soup in the pantry, for example)

The dishes are never done unless i do them. Benches not wiped down of food, can be left like that for days

Cats waterbowl is on food prep benches so cat fur always their. I am not allowed to move it

Cat food is given to them on paper plates so a bowl does not have to be cleaned. Food is dumped on top of old food for days..

Recycling rubbish is literally just thrown on the floor.

Ok. Breathe....

What my issues are

He gets angry if I try to get rid of items that are no longer useful
He does not clean after himself at all, and doesn’t care about the mess or smell
Promises are made to fix things or help me fix it, and it doesn't get done. (money is not an issue btw)

How this affects me

I am now angry a lot. And resentful of him

I feel that i should just move out, however there are financial constraints. and I enjoy being near my kids

Im sort of stuck in a freeze mode about the solution, which if i am honest is to move out.

I feel obligated to stay as he has been kind financially, not charging me much rent

I feel he has not respect for me at all, and I have stupidly let myself believe that cohabitating could be different to when we were in a relationship, and now I'm trapped

Honestly, I cannot see a solution here.

Why cant he see that there is an issue with the cleanliness and health and safety of this house?

How do you get someone to see that they are living in filth, when they don't believe they are? i guess would by my question

I am trying to find gratitude, and ways that i can live here and not let it affect my mental health, but I am really struggling on not losing my Zen here

Lets see if I am brave enough to hit the post button 🙂

white knight

Hi, welcome

........... got your breath yet? lol. Thankyou for your post and this thread could assist others with this problem.

This man unfortunately has an illness of which he has no insight to. To try to fix this which includes changes by himself to himself, is to invite conflict because he isnt capable of change. It would be akin to you arriving at an airport and someone tells you to start flying that easy to fly airplane... That's in a nutshell.

I'm wondering how your children cope and do they object like you? What is that situation, I'd guess they are adults?

So hypothetically if you got the house cleaned fully by yourself or professional cleaners, then went on a two week holiday- you are highly likely to return with it back to how it was. So your first port of call is to accept you dont not have the professional ability to treat this mans incapacity to change due to it being an illness.

So then you can mentally move onto other solutions.

An alternative accommodation is required and that would depend on whether your children would go with you or you go alone. Alone you can move into another shared house. This would result in improved mental health. If your children want to come along being adults if they're working can share costs. My concern if they were my children is that they dont end up thinking this way of living is ok.

I dont think professional counselling is feasible as he would take that offensively. You could try professional cleaners while he is absent from the house to make it more liveable for you and see his reaction. Play it down that you got things cleaned so you found it hygienic.

Feel free to reply.

"We can get sap from wood, but concrete has no the capacity to produce it..."

TonyWK

therising

The warmest of welcomes to you brave Patsy2010🤗

I feel for you so much as you face living with someone with mental/emotional challenges. Whether we're living with a hoarder, an alcoholic or someone who's chronically depressed, the ultimate question comes down to 'Can I manage living with some who mismanages mental and emotional challenges in the way they do?'. If the answer is 'No', it's pretty cut and dry. On the other hand, if the answer is 'Yes but I just don't know how to manage', that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Sometimes it can be a matter of 'My zen is found in my zone'. If a bedroom is big enough to accommodate a single bed, a two seater couch and a tiny dining table/desk with a single chair, it can be a self contained zenful zone. While this can be part of the solution, it doesn't solve the problems that come with shared zones. You definitely face a lot of challenges throughout the house, a lot. My goodness. I'm wondering if you're willing to take up the challenge of training the cat to love something new, such as a cat water fountain. Reconditioning it with treats (to regularly use and enjoy the fountain) may take some time. If it works, there'll eventually be no need for the water bowl on the bench anymore. There may still be cat fur here and there but not as much. I know, all good in theory. Btw, I wouldn't tell him you're planning on buying the fountain, just buy it. As the saying goes 'Better to seek forgiveness than permission' in some cases. Finding your zone in the pantry could be another consideration. What your ex does with his pantry zone is up to him, no matter how frustrating it is. Could you label your pantry zone? Would this be an issue for him if you did? I know this next one will be a tough one but the question is 'How hard are you prepared to work to keep the kitchen looking and feeling zen?'. You may have no choice in this case but to keep it clean yourself. If no amount of reasoning will lead him to keep it clean, save your sanity and clean it. You could always consider this as part of your lodgings. 'On top of cheap accommodation, I'll clean for someone who mentally can't clean'. If money's no great issue for him, is he prepared to have the bathroom somewhat renovated? Would he be at least willing to have the ceiling replaced? Some bath and basin paint could be the way to go regarding the stained bathtub. I think I'll stop there as that's quite a list already to consider.

Managing zones is a whole other challenge separate from helping someone manage to reform the way they think, feel and live. You may never get your ex to come to change the way he lives. Maybe it's a matter of managing 3 zones while you're there, your bedroom, the kitchen and the bathroom. What do you need them and want them to look like, smell like and feel like? Btw, if he's not willing to fix the lighting issues in the house, would he at least be prepared to buy a few rechargeable strong lanterns?

For a hoarder who lives in filth, they don't necessarily see it as a problem. It's a way of life. For an alcoholic, drinking's not necessarily a problem for them, it's a way of life that in their mind can make life easier. For someone who's chronically depressed, sometimes they can see it as everyone else who has the problem (in their mind other people are just oblivious to seeing and feeling what's depressing in this world). What all these conditions have in common involves the problems created for many of those around them.

Patsy2010

Thankyou

It is tips on maintaining my mental heath while living with this i am after.

Cats are not the issue. I am sure if I moved the water "cup" ( not a bowl) they would adapt. Unfortunately it is him that insists it must be there. We are having a silent war atm, I move it, he moves it back. I actually did buy water fountain recently, so will try your idea of just putting it somewhere.

When he asked me to live here( I did not ask him) I was more than happy to take care of cleaning. I knew what I was walking into. However I did think if sorted house out, cleaning would not be a major task. When I work long shifts and come home and can't get to the sink because it is full of dirty dishes, or make a coffee because there is sandwich filling all over the bench, it is soul destroying. And i gotta say i get resentful about it. I do not want to spend my life in a place of resentment. It is not good for the soul.

I put a tub in kitchen for recycling, however it all still just gets dumped on floor . I suppose I think a lot of this is bad habits I just have to break.

But further to that, should i really have to be a mother to a 60 year old man? And yes, very aware I can only control what I do.

I do have my room, which is my escape. Would be nice to have a heater, but with the electricity issue that can't happen.

Part of my frustration is that the place is actually a heath hazard for him. He has had a pretty major heart attack, amongst other health issues. I am concerned about the air quality in the house, and mold sickness. Not just for him but for me also, however I do not have medical issues.

The bathroom I bought anti mold paint for 18 months ago. Been waiting for the help he promised to do the ceiling.

I think I was hoping that someone could help me get him to see the issues. I don't want to have a life where I am constantly nagging about cleanliness issues. That makes no fun for anyone involved, especially not me!

interestingly, his shed is spotless! Everything put back in its correct place . I suppose that is where i wonder is this a mental health issue or just laziness in house, as he can keep an area clean and neat.

Anyway, once again thank you for reading and responding. Things will change or they won't. In the meantime I will keep looking for strategies to help me cope. I love living near my children again, and the alternative is to go back to working and living in remote areas 1000,s miles away

I am grateful that I have that alternative 😊

Patsy2010

Thank you

I hear you!

Thr grown up children have tried in the past to sort house out. Got a skip bin threw out all rubbish etc. ( which he got angry about). They saw it didn't make difference as it all went back to how it was very quickly. They don't spend a lot of time here . Mainly just sleep. One even buys microwave meals so they don't have to use dishes or deal with kitchen.

I know I will probably have to move out.

I did think that I would be a help to him. He is the father of my children at the end of the day. The house is a major health concern, and he has serious health issues

So living here while beneficial to me financially and allows me to be near my children, was also about looking after him a bit.

I suppose I was hoping someone knew a way I could get him to see that he has an issue.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Sometimes I just need to be heard

😊

white knight

What he has is a mental block to change, hygiene and neatness. He must identify it's a problem which is nye impossible, then he has to completely change his habits of which, as I said, he hasnt got the capacity. Yet we point these things out and you're hanging onto resentment of him, that is understandable but doesnt actually produce anything. No progress.

I've known only two hoarders/lazy people as bad as him in my life personally and watched "hoarders" on TV and they all have similar issues, that of not having the capability of organisation, hygiene and so forth.

Re: " I suppose that is where I wonder is this a mental health issue or just laziness in house, as he can keep an area clean and neat." We aren't at a professional level to judge either way and does it really matter? The problem is there and he doesnt recognise it as a problem, you are highly unlikely to get the house as you want it and this is telling of the problem you might have because the paint is still unused for that ceiling. I think I wouldnt have purchased it on hope he'd do it. Plus you have a huge mould issue so it isnt a straight paint job, it's a big task which is more reason he wont do it. Any attempt by you to get things done and any change - is that realistic? Are you hoping to strike gold in a puddle so to speak?

I assume your children are in their 20's as you separated 20 years ago. If it is to be "close" to your children and they are adults then think of an alternative accommodation maybe including your children to help with rent. If you feel you are baby sitting a 60yo man then I have to ask- why? That leads me to wonder what you hope to achieve.

Re: "When he asked me to live here( I did not ask him)" But, you didnt have to move in, that was your decision. It is also your decision to utilise the option to move out, after all I think if I was in your situation my decision to do so would have been within the first 2 weeks because it's his house and change isnt likely and I couldnt live under those conditions.

Clearly he has issues, but on this forum we have tackled the problem of people with mental health issues not wanting change- whether they dont see the need, are in denial or... in this case, if it's laziness. Every time we discuss this resistance with people we point out that they must display a change in attitude before the writer can assist them, thats because you are dealing with an adult that legally doesnt have to do anything at all. I'm trying to help you by pointing out exactly that and a smaller part of the problem you have is your persistence in being a fixer of a problem that you personally have that is fixable only by moving out or if he and you together can attend a counsellor. That needs his co-operation.

I hope that helps

TonyWK

randomxx

Hi there op and sorry about the situation. lt's very understandable why you gave this a try given your kids and the insane rental market out there. Just a thought but would your kids poss' be interested in you guys sharing another place of your own instead of there ? They must hate all the mess too but same for them l'd imagine, the insane rent market in this country now they're prob staying same reasons so maybe, they might be into something else with you instead.

Mothering, he doesn't want one so don't waste your time, he just wants to go on his merry way in the way he couldn't care less about. Doubt you'd ever get hm to see someone or do anything about it sorry to say.

l've had a much smaller experience but my ex w, although a very clean person physically and she did actually clean up to butttt, she'd just slop stuff everywhere especially food or while cooking, and then she'd just walk off later. Could be all over the benches , sink, floor, she'd just live around it.l use to go clean it up but gave up bc she just kept doing it. She liked dong a major clean every 6wks, and it's all just stay there until then if l didn't clean it, nagged her silly, no change.

Once there was half a thick shake spilt in her console and all down the passenger side floor. Borrowed her car one day did my thing and got out. Borrowed it again 2mths later thinking that stuffs gotta be done by now, still there. The console had turned into this think sludge almost set, carpets well, you'd imagine. She's a nurse, she was driving round at work with that for 2mths. Made me so sick l got out and took my car.

22 yrs and another 10 since after we split and she's still the same.

Good luck.

rx

therising

Hi Patsy

I once read a psychologist's view on 'There's no such thing as laziness'. It was very interesting. He explained how there's always a reason for someone's inactivity, so calling it 'laziness' doesn't address the reason. Whether it involves their belief systems, avoidance issues, inner dialogue, sense of fatigue, pure disinterest or something else (such as an ADHD or OCD issue), it's a question of what their inactivity or lack of commitment comes down to. While lazing could have been part of a prescription for mental or physical recovery from stress or surgery at some point, for example, did lazing become a permanent habit? You could say it's not 'laziness' but a bad habit that's the key issue, a reconditioning of the brain.

When I consider my 23yo daughter's bedroom, it's a shocker. When I consider my own bedroom, it's just as bad. When my mum passed away last year, I brought home a lot of stuff from her house and bit by bit just put it in the bedroom. It's still all there. I can relate to my daughter's reasons for not cleaning her room, it's agitating to clean while still seeing so much left to do in the future. So, it becomes a matter of 'I'll clean it all in one hit when I've got the time'. This way I avoid feeling agitation. Yes, it's delusional but it's also emotional, feeling the agitation that comes with not being able to completely clean up. When I think of the state of my dad's place when he lived on his own, there were papers and dishes and stuff everywhere. It was his way of managing. While most of us file cutlery in the cutlery drawer, file papers in a filing cabinet, file clothes, nail clippers, medication and whole of stack of others things in different cupboards or drawers, my dad's apartment was one big filing cabinet you could say. He lived on his own and it worked for him. Following my parent's split (after 35 years of living together), he felt the freedom to not have to organise things. So, a lot of the time a person's environment can reflect how or what they want to feel.

While you can try all you might, you may not be able to change your ex's feelings about his environment. He may just want to continue feeling what brings him a sense of ease, relief, freedom and more. I imagine he does feel some degree of discomfort in some way, regarding the state of the house, but if he continues focusing more on what's comfortable he then doesn't have to face or feel the discomfort. Sounds like his shed or maybe his bed in front of the tv are his comfort zones and the rest just doesn't matter. Maybe, for him, it's 'Just leave what doesn't matter alone otherwise it's going to agitate me'. Personally, I couldn't live in a house like that, so I can relate to your agitation. Definitely not good to be feeling so much dis-ease within your nervous system and other energy systems in your body (vascular, muscular etc).