Need some perspective - wife has asked for separation

[DaveKay]

HI community

I'm 47 with 3 kids (11, 8, 6) and a marriage (12 years) that's been on the rocks for a while.

My wife has asked for a seperatation, and I'm after some perspectives from anyone who has gone through something similar.

As background context - wife has been unhappy for quite sometime, and has previously asked to seperate. Her reasons are that I am too difficult to live with, and that I scare the kids when I yell at them. I get where is she coming from, and I've tried my hardest over the years and months to settle that down. A lot of that stems from me being the primary income earner (working long and hard hours) and then carrying a big household load as well (cooking, shopping etc). Wife does most of the running around, appointments etc. The house gets crazy chaotic most times, and it just happens that my dad-yelling is much more aggressive that her mum-yelling. That's just for background and context. I know I can be a real knob sometimes, so here we are...

She's asked me to move out of the house so she can stay with the kids. My primary resistance is that I cannot afford to fund a second residence without significant impact on the kids (ie remove from private schooling, reduction in costly extracurricular activities). My second resistance that the kids quality of life will suffer as a whole, though wife thinks they'll be happier with me not being around so much. 

I said I don't plan to be kicked out of my own house, and she seems determined to leave with the kids. The frustrating this is that she believes there are rental options for $150 a week (ie cheap!). Lol & sigh.

I don't have feelings for her anymore, but I am determined to hold things together for the good of the family, and for sheer practical reasons. Her idea of good is not being around. Any statement I make about finance/cost is seen by her as financial blackmail. 

I am really hurt and angry. I've busted my butt for the family, and carry so much of the income generation and household chores. 

I'd love to hear from anyone who has been in a similar scenario

- how did you manage the cost of a secondary residence?

- how did the kids cope with separation?

- is there a good side to any of this?

Thanks, all!

[white knight]

I liked Robby's contribution.

DaveKay, I've read over your posts. I got the following questions and comments.

• The caravan was obvious purchased to accommodate the family. For this reason it is invaluable for if and when if all ends with the marriage it can be used as your residence that will accommodate the children as well. You might need to have 2 caravan parks in mind as I think in some states you must move out for at least a week every 3 months to avoid "permanent living" there. Look ahead 12 years, child support stops, think about getting a house then.
• "I've busted my butt for the family, and carry so much of the income generation and household chores. " This is where I have parallels. Shift work and 2 part time jobs so my ex could be a stay at home mum meant I was a zombie most of our marriage and needed care. Nevertheless the respect for that hard work never solidified. I made a home call from a GP to check her out. He asked what the issue was- "If you look at her wearing a dressing  gown  and its 3pm in the afternoon"? he ran tests and all was ok, no depression etc, "I think it could be laziness" he said. What I'm getting at is you have to cut your losses on things like hard work, be proud you applied yourself for your family, no one can say otherwise.
• "Part of my resistance is my determination to avoid a statistically likely worse outcome for all. Her ideal plans are delusional, based on rose-coloured memories of her own childhood". At this stage, really one step from marriage dissolve, you really cant have her interests at heart, delusional or otherwise. As long as she would care for the kids welfare and location close enough for your access nothing at all should matter. 
• "My worry is that she'll pull two levers in any settlement discussion. One that I work long hours (ie 9 to 5) and therefore can't look after the kids and the second being the kids are fearful of me because of the yelling (the yelling I accept is very problematic, but I keep a tight lid on it so it may be a few times a month)."   Worry only produces ulcers. Squash worry with facts or likelihood. Eg how would she know that you could rent a place and have a relative/friend/nanny that can look after the kids in the hours that you are away from home? Or that your boss can make arrangements to change your working hours... too many variables for her to counter your desires to co-parent. The yelling, although addressed previously that it isnt a good thing and should be treated i.e. anger management, she cant prove it is abusive enough to harm the children. Courts act with facts. eg if she produced a video that the judge agreed it was serious enough to possibly cause mental damage then thats more likely actionable.
• There's a lot of here say , claims and counterclaims that get thrown out with the process.

She no longer wants to live with you and you've lost feelings. Her possessiveness to remove you full time to part time with the kids is a judgement that could be unfair and should be left to the court imo and not discussed any further with her due to her bias. During this time I'd suggest planning for moving out. That will stop prolonging the inevitable. 

Financially the best outcome is to sit down with her, preferably with a solicitor/s and draft up a visitation plan agreeable to both parties. Property settlement can come later but secure the caravan. Resentment - I still have a little for my ex and we separated in 1996. But mate, I have a great wife now and my daughter 34yo is close to me. The other one she demonised me and I dont have contact.

Thoughts?

TonyWK

[DaveKay]

yowch - that submission is a real cheery read, and it resonates with may of the stories I have heard from my male peers. My plan is to try and turn this all around, even if it's just to stabilise things (but hopefully improve). I'm away travelling for the week, so will see what things look like when I get home..

[white knight]

Hi Carus

Re: "I've heard before that you shouldn't leave the house as the courts will look upon that as it was YOU that abandoned the family....even though it's her decision and will bring you some space and peace of mind.. "

That's not the case. 12 months separation is all that's required for divorce, there is no judgement by anyone as to why.

Thanks for your post, regardless 

TonyWK 

[white knight]

Sorry Fave, not meant to shock you. Other members here have commented on why it's better to make a new life, your friends also.

Initial stance of which you have of "hope" is understandable and we hope it works out. If it doesn't, a plan be can be shattering if it doesn't exist.

I hope you're OK

TonyWK 

[quirkywords]

Dave Kaye and everyone on this thread. It is bath sad and interesting. 
Im my situation I left family home and as a female I was at a disadvantage . Long story iwont go in to but I had no choice but to leave.

Dave I wish you all the best. Keep in touch here if you want to 

[Carus]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the clarification....As I said it was just something I'd heard....

It wasn't so much about the reason for divorce, I just heard the court doesn't look favorably on the one who abandoned the family home....perhaps when it comes to assests or children or something....

As QW said, it put her at a disadvantage....but didn't say why*

And yeh, I do hope Dave can turn things around, but it will take a lot of work and change from him....AND her....

Regards

Carus*

[white knight]

Yeh, thise situation has been a developing one in Australia, indeed there was a time when leaving the family home was frowned upon by a divorce court where your dirty laundry was amplified to the community. Thankfully those cross examinations are gone. There is a million reasons people leave and many are justified. I recall a neighbour after I left, ignored me at the shops when I said hello. I stopped him and asked him why "You left your wife and kids"... "never judge what you dont know what goes on behind closed doors". Her second husband had the same receiving end of narcissism as I did and he asked me what he could do about it "well mate I had no answer so I had to leave."

One week prior to leaving her I attempted suicide. Had I faced demonization by a judge or the community I likely wouldnt have survived having to remain being abused. Such abuse behind closed doors is impossible to describe and impossible to prove as words get twisted. Her remaining silent was abuse in itself, up to 6 weeks- not one word.

Back to Dave, it isnt an easy thing to suggest to a person struggling under the same roof as his distant wife (that wants him to leave) that he'd be mentally better off leaving. The stakes are high- loss of a considerable amount of property, his full time fatherhood, estrangement of a wife that has already moved on etc. The lucky ones in this situation remain friends and work together for the childrens future but that isnt always possible. My ex would never remain friends with an ex as she's proved 3 times now. The worse saying ever is- "it takes two"... no, it only takes one bad attitude to sever the friendship part forever. Some have zero ability to remain friends, its a war for these people.

I'm hoping Dave gets what he wants, her to turn her views around and rekindle the love that once was.

TonyWK

[DaveKay]

Hi all

I've gone over your responses again today. 

I'm driving back to QLD from SA today after my week away.  The trip was to get some space for all of us. Am both nervous and excited about going home. 

I really appreciate your lengthy responses, as much as they hurt to read. Moving out for me is not possible. Wife did suggest I stay in the caravan (in the bush block behind our property with the chickens). The reason why this is her caravan is that I find them cramped (I'm 6'3). It's her van, she can stay in it if she really wants to. My family is all interstate, friends all have their own family (and relationship challenges). 

I am also currently between jobs. I am a contractor project manager, and typically have a busy workload (a big part of my relationship issues). This has provided significant financial stability and allowed wife to reduce hours to focus on kids etc. New contracts will start soon, but for now I'm 'enjoying' a break. Just another thing to make new rentals tricky. 

So, I'll see what's happening at home when I get there in a few days. I am going to keep working on this, I;m not ready to let go. But I dare say events will unfold in their own way.

I'll keep you all updated.

Thanks again!!

[white knight]

Hi Dave

I wasn't going to reply but two things now prompted me

1. If living in the caravan is suggested by her to you and that it is on the property eg good continuous contact with the kids, there is no reason at all as I see it, that she should not be treated the same eg move into it herself. 

2. We've covered the yelling topic well, and imo this is or could be a "clutching at straws" topic to justify an end.

To my knowledge "abuse" (to the kids) claimed by one parent cannot hold any ground without lots of documented events, with evidence,  by professional individuals eg child protection services. This claim of her is her perception without proof. There is no way her perception could have any affect on your future with your kids. It is like, you claiming she isn't worthy of her full time motherhood due to her not buying fruit or feeding them party pies twice a week. Under questioning she could claim fruit goes rotten too easily and she could suggest pies twice a week isn't unhealthy and ask for expert proof it is.

All children have to reduce each parents upbringing techniques in most cases they adapt. Besides you've identified it is excessive and making amends.

Google "beyondblue wit, the only answer to torment"

Short answers reach home mire effectively eg "tell me why I should live in the van when you can"?

TonyWK 

[DaveKay]

Hi all - thought I’d post an update.

So the good news is that hell is starting to thaw. 

It’s taken a bit though. She told me she had “walk away wife” Syndrome. Fair enough, it explains a lot. It also explains the negativity bias that was driving this relationship into a downward spiral.

I’ve decided to see a psychologist (thanks, Medicare). The key thing im getting from that is learning not to get drawn into every single shitty argument. The other good thing is that is something I can involve the kids in (let’s all help daddy not to lose his shit all the time 🙂

So, I think I’ve been able to right the ship, for now. 

thanks to everyone who provided their perspectives on this. It really did help me get through those few weeks!