Questioning some things

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Those of you who know me know I have been bouncing from one rough life event to another for years, without really any time to take a breath in between. I can state well enough the things that have happened to me, but haven't had much energy to delve deeply into what those things have done to me. In the time off work since my partner had major surgery (yup, another fun crisis), I had time to start pulling at threads, to get a Mental Health Care Plan, see a psych and talk to a counsellor. As much as I always knew my life has been a steaming pile of crap, the threads I am pulling are connecting dots and giving rise to possible clarifications of events and what has arisen in their wake.

My childhood was severely neglectful. Mostly emotionally, but also in some physical ways. We kids didn't sleep in the (perfectly good) house, we slept in a caravan nearby - Mum cleaned up her and Dad's bedroom and the kitchen after the mouse plagues, but apparently our rooms weren't worth the effort. He carries on about her "unfit" parenting, but it's not like Dad did anything about it either. We were fed and clothed well enough. Never a lot of attention from either of them. I don't remember a single hug from either one during my childhood. Mum would immediately disinfect her hands if by some chance she came to touch one of us. Some years later, post parental divorce, Mum's settlement money ran out and we endured a brief stint without a home, a much longer (years) stint of inadequate food and no hot water.

I actually became pretty functional after moving out. Worked, studied, maintained a place on my own. Went through a couple of less than healthy relationships and endured with surprising resilience. Then came the last relationship. First two years, no major problems. Then bam, he's unfaithful. Enter ol' Blue's depression, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Damn fool remained in contact with him and we tried again at the relationship. To be fair, he didn't repeat that particular mistake. He tried hard to redeem himself and be a better partner. Until the ring was on the finger. Engagement in place, all effort fell away little by little. Dear gods did the neglect become overwhelmingly severe. I kind of got that there was a theme, but it's literally only now, years after breaking up with him, that I see why it was that straw that began my depression - just how closely what he did mirrored my parents' behaviour.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

With that thought, I followed the trail, reading about adult survivors of childhood neglect. I stumbled on something that I had not even vaguely considered before today, and yet after that woefully failed relationship and its terribly close parallels with my upbringing, the description fits.

- Reliving the traumatic event through thoughts, memories and dreams.

- Experiencing emotional or physical reactions such as chills, hyperventilating, or panic/stress when faced with reminders of the event.

- Avoiding reminders of the trauma including people, thoughts and memories, situations, and places that remind them of their trauma.

- Being on guard or hyper-aroused at times, excessive emotions, difficulty relating to others, such as showing or feeling affection, difficulty sleeping, irritability, increased temper, inability to concentrate.

These things have been very slowly diminishing, but are bang on how I have responded to both his infidelity and neglect. To a lesser extent the same thing with a previous ex who was abusive. Am I experiencing PTSD?

[Jstar49]

Hi Blue,

I've not been around the forums very long, so I don't know very much of your story.

I'm so sorry that your childhood was so emotionally neglectful- thats so sad. The physical neglect is one thing, but not to receive affection or care....I think that would be really scarring.

Do you have any contact with your parents or siblings now?

I would like to know more, if you want to talk about it.

My dad was very emotionally absent and used physical punishment as a form of abuse- I knew he was taking his anger out on me when he did it- so I can relate to how damaging it can be to not feel loved and cared for. Your situation tho was way worse than I can imagine anyone doing to their kids. Have you met other survivors?

Big hugs,

J*

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hi J*,

My story has come out slowly over about four years on here, I wouldn't expect you to know a lot of it. I have a thread in Long Term Support Over the Journey - no pressure to read, but it's there if you want to know more.

Thanks. I tend not to think of it as sad, but I guess I still don't engage normally with emotions like that - it's nothing or it's full scale out of proportion clinical range sad. Mostly it just makes me tired. As for scarring, most of my life I didn't have much to compare it to, I didn't really know the difference.

My siblings and I are actually quite close. Ironically I get along fairly well with my parents. Neither of them has changed really, but they relate a whole lot better to an adult who can look after herself. There are definitely emotional barriers there, I know not to expect too much from those relationships.

I'm fine with talking about it, though not sure what to add other than answering your questions.

Sorry to hear you experienced that emotional absence and abuse. Our parents have a lot to answer for. I can say from my first "relationship" that the physical side of his abusive behaviour isn't what stayed with me. That said, it was infrequent and I gave it straight back. It was by no means the worst of what he had to offer.

Your last question really got me thinking. I bet I know more survivors than I think I do. It's really not something you advertise. I think there's an element of Stockholm Syndrome to it, you're stuck with these people and there's some twisted loyalty there as a child, and confusion and shame about that loyalty when you realise that crap ain't normal. I think someone I know has had experiences along the same lines, there have been indications of it. Might be worth reaching out to him - I'm pretty good at starting awkwardly personal conversations. 😉

It took me years to get comfortable with hugs, or to comprehend them. I'm getting there. Hugs back to you, J*.

Blue.

[Truc]

Hi Blue’s clue
To be honest, I am not an expert here, but I'm just trying to give something that as a perspective, opinion or anything you name it as a recommendation or a suggestion but nothing more. Life is a long journey right ? and of course we are not sure what we may encounter in life related to friendship, relationships, work, career...etc. we may not know who we are and become in the next 10 years, therefore, I mostly spend my time to focus on what I have to do and experience right now more than put my mind into other things, things happens, sometimes it is out of our control but that does not mean it is our fault or other’s fault, maybe it is just how things meant to be, things meant to be ? such a cliché right ? but anyway that cliché has lived may be longer than us, the leaf falls from the tree in that position and someone steps on it, the other leaf falls but nobody steps on it but the wind flew it away, such a lucky leaf in my opinion, however, is the leaf had been stepped on unlucky ? I do not think so for sure, both leaves are so lucky to me, one can fly away to see what happens everywhere on the ground, such a beautiful view, one can stay on the ground be around with his old leaf friends had fallen and welcome new leaf falling to sing with the wind, such a great thing,... so with or without a relationship, which is luckier, both are good, one has more time for family and friends and work, one has more time for his or her lover. Life is beautiful that way, is breaking up a bad thing ? hmm.... Maybe I will just go back to my cliché.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Truc, I'm not sure I follow your line of thinking. Is breaking up a bad thing? With certain people, no. When I speak of PTSD or what may be that, I'm taking about very real, very present here-and-now involuntary responses to past trauma. Living in the moment is one thing. The moment includes consequences from moments gone by - they don't get to go unaddressed if one means to move on from trauma. Am I particularly unlucky compared to others? Beats me, but I'm still living with what I'm living with and I have a right to be feeling and functioning better than I am. Again, sometimes that requires retrospection, also identification and work. This little leaf can't just float along, some control of where I'm going matters.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. Hugs!

Thankyou for sharing some of your childhood and some of your adulthood experiences too.

In answer to your question about whether you have PTSD or not, IDK.... it's not the experiences we have that guarantee we have PTSD or C-PTSD but our reaction to them.
The more traumatic these experiences are, like on an OBVIOUS level eg War etc, then the more likely one could say this person could now have PTSD.

***TRIGGER WARNING***
I phoned so many helplines this year omg & spoke with Trauma Psychs.... they ALL said I had PTSD and needed a formal diagnosis and treatment like asap. One even said "With all that's happened, how could you NOT have PTSD? and I think it's the Complex version".

My Counsellor and her head Psych told me I had it maybe 6y ago. But no formal diagnosis for IRL reasons.

The info I've garnered about PTSD, paired with my own experiences of C-PTSD is that it comes under the "umbrella" of "Anxiety" but is far more extreme. IME it's like being locked in a cinema vault with no windows (or air) and having full sensory experiences of the trauma being replayed in full surround sound and full visuals and quite often full physicals.

I've had bruising re-occur where past injuries were, extreme vertigo with vomiting and slipped discs after sleeping reactions because of these "episodes". And more.
No other description but HELL.

That was nice and light wasn't it?
lol sorry! But that's a little of what it was for me.

No matter what diagnosis you may receive from a psychologist, to me you're clearly having trauma responses. Intrusive thoughts are one indicator you mention. Not sure if you suffer nightmares also?

In no way would I ever diminish anyone's experiences of trauma.
The effects can be life long unless we get help and do the work!

I found Googling things extremely traumatic. It triggered C-PTSD full swing this year also.

I hate comparing childhood abuses as what's the worst!
It's ALL BAD. All of it stinks!

Yet... here I go parroting (yah a bird pun just for us lol) what I heard in a Seminar a few years ago and I was shocked.... that neglect is the worst form of child abuse. I was also severely neglected in childhood. But I thought I was getting a break from the other abuses TBH.
Apparently research has shown that the effects of childhood neglect MANIFESTS worse in adulthood for victims. IDK but that's what they said. They gave reasons.

Hope I've helped somewhat!

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

All good. (*hug*)

It's surprisingly helpful that you said that, I find it all quite difficult to talk about.

Yeah, I know there's no definitive answer to come from a forum, but it is a good place to ask the question and reflect on the nature of things on a personal level, with the help of insights from others. Yeah, it all makes sense now. I never considered it was a possibility in my circumstances, but all those symptoms I listed in italics earlier... they do fit. It's worth asking the questions, exploring the possibility or identifying it all as something else. Honestly, I am guilty of shoving this stuff aside like it didn't matter (lesson learnt from my parents and exes, I guess, hardy-freakin'-har). Ol' Blue hasn't had a lot of room for vulnerability.

Hm, probably should have added a trigger warning to the thread title. Who do I ask, to put that on?

I would have to say your experiences have been far more acute than mine and come with more extreme reactions. Understandably so. The bruising coming back up is extraordinary, I'm sorry you have been and are still going through all that.

By all means do not apologise for sharing your experience. I assure you, you are helping me understand the condition - whether I am suffering something similar or not, this knowledge is a tool for understanding and I value it.

Yeah, intrusive thoughts is the biggie for me. Likewise intrusive emotions, and images of events. No nightmares for a long time, had a fair few early on re the infidelity. Mostly I barely slept for years, you don't dream much when you don't sleep. I've had the chills, hyperventilating and acute stress (not panic exactly, more like despair) set in with reminders. Avoiding people/places/situations/any reminders because of the strength of these reactions. The high incidence of infidelity-based songs (and a few abuse-based ones like Luka - which is actually a really good song and ground-breaking for its time) at work made being there outright traumatic for a long time - still is, to a slowly diminishing degree. Very highly sensitive to anything that looks like it may lead to a repeat of same, the hyper-alertness thing.

I don't talk about it much, but I can't hide my avoidance of certain things. My last ex would joke I had 'Nam flashbacks. Maybe he wasn't so far off the mark.

You're right, all abuse stinks. I'm interested in that (parroted) seminar, is it on YouTube?

You are definitely helping.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

No the seminar is not on YouTube. It was a Departmental Conference on Mental Health but that specific seminar was given by a Child Psychologist, the Head Psych here.

I hope you can find some evidence of what she spoke of.
It should be out there bec it wasn't HER research.

The reasons she gave for neglect manifesting worse effects were because the incidence of substance abuse and other stuff was higher in these victims.

I found Googling childhood schemas and even doing my own research with books I no longer have gave me incredible feedback to why I react very strongly to certain situations.
Also "trajectories" of the types of abuse children suffer and where these trajectories PREDICT we will all end up, how we will be as adults etc.

You and I smash those trajectories out of the water, mind you, I'm sure PLENTY of ppl do!!
We're not alone just according to such research we're in about the 5% yeah because the research is NOT comprehensive. I'm sure they're doing the best they can lol 😉.

I was remiss in not attending to the infidelity you mentioned. Hey I TOTALLY get your reactions and I completely understand them! Blues there's been so much infidelity in my past, I've been divorced 3 times bec of this betrayal. My parents did too.

Infidelity is a complete deal breaker for me and I say that unapologetically too lol.

I found the greatest learnings about being a betrayed wife through another forum but there's awesome (even FUN yeah fun!) learnings through Chumplady.com
She ROCKS!
"Leave a cheater gain a life" is her motto and I enthusiastically agree!

I know you well enough to know that you have a strong sense of Justice.
I do too.
THIS is also a "thing" for us to learn about since it's not really very apparent out there in our society, probably never was IDK.
I Googled this and learnt more about this about myself also.

Reverting back to the HUMOUR in Chump Nation via Chumplady.... yeah I know, I never used to laugh much either BUT I can have a full on belly laugh now, even through near tears, when thinking of the circuses I endured.

Nice stuff to talk about on Christmas Day hey Blue!

MERRY CHRISTMAS dear friend and we may as well HIGH FIVE too!

Hugs right back at ya!
Love EM

[Jstar49]

Big hugs.

I'm just going to sit silently in support at this time.

My two sisters, you are awesome, and awesome support for each other. And both of you so supportive of everyone else here also. It blows me away.

Love,

J*