differences between individual & relationship counsellor - confused

[GoodWitch]

I've been seeing my individual counsellor for about 4yrs. She's very good & has helped me work through some childhood issues. I feel like I'm on a journey toward being my authentic self.

During the sessions I realised my relationship was a big problem for me. I've been married 20yrs & my hub & I disconnected a long time ago. So 2yrs ago I told hub we needed marriage counselling & he reluctantly agreed to go. I chose a different therapist for that bc I didn't want him to think my other counsellor was biased.

At first I thought she was helping us, but after a time I felt she was missing the point. So was my hub as he wasn't doing any of the things I asked him to do at home. The couples sessions became frustrating for me. We stopped going about 6mths ago & since then I've tried to tell my hub 3 times I think it's over. He goes into denial/blame & I can't bring myself to do anything concrete bc of the kids. So I suggested we go back to the marriage counsellor to talk about how to separate (something she said she would help us with if it came to that).

Now She says 'children never get over divorce' & reminds me my hub is trying now which completely glosses over the fact he didn't start trying until I said I was leaving & he got scared. I say bluntly that I have no romantic feelings for him anymore & she just says to go on more dates. I say I feel terrified of having sex & she just says I will have to do it eventually or the relationship won't survive. I feel she's ignoring the fact I said I don't even want the relationship anymore?

Also my hub is seeing her individually now. I asked him to get help but I & even his GP told him to use a different counsellor but he doesn't like change so he is seeing her. Now I feel like my feelings are getting completely lost in all this.

I know a relationship counsellor's priority is the couple & my other counsellor is helping me the individual, so obvs it will feel different. I don't know if it feels different for legit reasons or if the relationship counsellor sucks. I'm back where I was a year go, in marriage counselling that isn't working.

How do I know if the relationship counsellor is bad or if I've just come to think negatively about the process? She says now I need to focus less on myself & more on the marriage, but I'm worried that will destroy all the work I've done on myself already. Am I being selfish? I'm pretty sure I don't love my hub anymore. In fact sometimes I think I hate him.

GW

[PamelaR]

Hi Goodwitch

I don't think you're being selfish at all. You have been trying for such a long time and doing all the things you need to.

You've been through a lot - going through all the childhood stuff. In my opinion, your mind has cleared and you see things more clearly. I know from my own experience this is what happened. I changed through this process - and that's okay. My husband needed help too, he sought his own counselling. He progressed and we're still together. I was lucky that he was good and I continued to love him.

Your husband hasn't changed by the sounds of it and doesn't want to.

I have been to see mostly individual psychologists and not couples counsellors. Though one of my psychs did see us together once or twice during my time with her.

From my perspective, your couples' counsellor needs to take into consideration both parties needs. From what you've described there does appear to be a bias and I think this is also evident by the fact your hubby is seeing them on an individual basis.

It takes a lot to go through what you've done so it's important it doesn't get undone. Staying together just for the kids is not necessarily a good outcome. My mother and father did and to be honest, they would have been better to have split.

Hope some of this helps GW. You are such a wonderful support to others here. Be kind to yourself.

Kind regards

PamelaR

[GoodWitch]

Thanks so much PamelaR. I know the relationship counsellor's very dedicated to keeping us together, of course that is a good goal. I know it's what I should want too, for the sake of my children. But in individual therapy I've finally learned to prioritise my own needs--and they are warring with the needs of my family. It's so hard.

My hub has definitely made significant changes in the last couple of months. But that's only 2 months worth of change it's not going to make up for 20+ years of him refusing to change and part of me thinks neither he nor the counsellor sees that. Hub seems to think now that he's washing the dishes regularly that will make up for the fact he spent 20yrs not doing it because he quote 'didn't like it'. A petty complaint but it's the build up of small straws that break the camel's back isn't it.

I am trying to give it more time as I was asked to. Maybe I'll let go of the lingering resentment eventually. Maybe I'll stop wanting to punch hub in the face every day lol. The counsellor did say the good thing about hitting rock bottom in a relationship is knowing you can rebuild it to look exactly how you want it to. That's an interesting idea. But right now I still feel the need to rebuild myself, I don't want to build on the foundations of a relationship I don't trust to fulfil me anymore. I put all my energy into us for a long time and my hub didn't do the same. Not sure I want to give him another 20yrs of my life tbh.

Thanks for your kind words

GW

[White_Rose]

Hello Good Witch

I can see all your frustration with your marriage and I see why you are not ready to trust your husband simply because he has changed a couple of things. There are two points I want to make. Although you have spent 20 years being angry, frustrated and uncared for, if your marriage is to change and you want to stay, you will need to accept the past 20 years happened and move on. I'm not saying forget everything because that is just not possible. I spent 30 years in a marriage that was pretty much the way yours sounds.

In the end I could not stay because he could not see why I was unhappy. He had all the good bits of marriage and saw no reason to change. If he washed up he was giving me an enormous concession and I should have been very grateful. I think that's a bit different to your husband. He may be trying to change and doing the washing up to him may seem a huge step towards you. Yes I agree it is often the small things that wreck relationships.

Hitting rock bottom, though very painful, does mean the only way is up. Getting yourself back is a good idea. Once you know where you want to go the past may be easier to leave behind, so 'mending' yourself really is a priority.

The other point is about how much energy you want to spend mending this broken relationship. If you do not want to stay with him then nothing he does will work because you are continually saying to yourself, "Why didn't he do this 20 years ago".

I think his counsellor is missing much of your point of view. Maybe she is helping him understand the years of frustration you had and why and how this makes you feel the way you do now. I don't know, and really neither do you. The question for you is, "Do you want this marriage to work?". If your answer is no then simply separate. He will never satisfy and heal your hurt because you do not want to let it go. And I know this was exactly how I felt.

Our children had left home and we barely spoke although much of this was because of our respective working hours. In retrospect I can see he did make changes but I was supposed to be grateful and this did not sit well with me. If you want to keep this marriage you will need, I feel, to truly start again and build a new life together. Staying in the past and bringing up old hurts will not work. Talk with your counsellor about this.

In the meantime please use this forum to talk about how you feel and what you want.

Mary

[GoodWitch]

Thanks White Rose you've given me a lot of food for thought. I think I mustn't really want to let things go, because I can't seem to. Letting the old hurts go will leave me wide open to trusting him again, and I guess I don't know if I can, or even want to. I feel like I've given enough, I'm depleted. But I'll need to give all of myself again to make this work and it's not something I can bring myself to do. Maybe I'm not being fair. But when you talk of 'giving energy to repair a broken relationship'...I just think, God no. I can't. I'm so sick of doing that. I don't want to spend another moment pouring myself into this...even if it 'works' this time. I think I've changed so much the marriage isn't what I want anymore and that's the hard truth of it that I have had to face, by my hub can't face.

I'll have to be blunter in our next counselling session about it. I know I need to make my hub and the counsellor listen properly.

Thank you and Pamela for your support, it helps enormously to talk this through with people who have been through similar and/or don't judge me for trying to put myself first at last

GW

[White_Rose]

Hello GW

I think my explanation was not clear enough. I meant that if you want the marriage to continue you will have a lot of hard work to do, both of you. If you have reached the end and just don't want or need to continue then this is the way to go and work out the best way to separate.

The letting go part I meant in yourself. Whether you stay or go you will need to find ways to let go of your hurt. Not because it will help husband or make you more likely to stay but because you are hurting and need to heal. There are two parts to what could happen. Part one is non negotiable. You need to get help to manage your hurts and be able to say "I feel I am healing".

This applies to whatever you decide in part two. Leave or stay, that's your decision. Don't confuse healing with either staying or going. I think you need time away from the situation to manage this. Can you go somewhere pleasant with few attractions other than peace and quiet? Find a therapist who is only talking to you and who has your best interests at heart. I think when you leave all the many irritations etc from your husband, put down the load you are carrying and feel strong you will find it easier to decide what to do next.

I'm not a fan of trial separations but it may work. At the very least it will show you both what you want and how well you will manage. But this is not my decision and I don't want you to think I am urging you to do something you are not comfortable with.

As I said above, I finally left after 30 years. Would I have been better to go earlier? I don't know and never will. All we have is today and where we are now. Please talk it over with your therapist and don't be afraid to make a pros and cons list. I find that very useful and it helps to put a value against every item then add them up. Score 1-5 for each. Sometimes it appears that one side is far away the best option but you feel it's wrong. It may be because the one side is shorter about specifics but the impact is greater. So write down how good or bad it feels to you. You may need to make two comparison lists, one for staying and one for going.

I hope my explanation is much more clear and is helpful.

Mary

[GoodWitch]

I didn't think you were urging me either way, it's all good :). I know I need to continue to heal myself and that includes dealing with my feelings toward my mother and other things that have nothing to do with my husband. I guess my concern is that's going to be hard to do if I'm putting all my energy into my marriage.I got lost in the relationship the past couple of decades and I suppose I'm afraid of that happening again. I've considered going away but didn't end up doing it. I am reconsidering this now. I think some time out might be necessary.

I've tried the pro-con list but never thought of the weighting idea that is a good one. How important is my independence to me? I'll have a long hard think about it.

Very useful, thank you Mary

GW

[White_Rose]

How are you going GW?

I am dropping by to see what is happening with you. Are your thoughts becoming more clear? It is hard to get the emotion out of the way and concentrate on practicalities because so much of the happenings are emotional. I know when I was making decisions to leave or not and still in my life now, I find myself swamped by the emotions I experience. I am learning to cope with this but sometimes having a good cry can feel cleansing (so long as no one sees me).

Going away for a few days may be the best way to collect your thoughts and make decisions.

Cheers

Mary

[GoodWitch]

Thanks for checking on me Mary :-).

Some days I feel much better, like maybe we are going to find a way through this and rebuild our relationship. Hub really is doing a lot of work on himself and there is more trauma there from his childhood than I was aware of. I've gotten stronger though. I am saying what I mean more, I am not caving and doing whatever it takes to make him feel better. I've told him he needs to feel his emotions, bad and good, because he's been shutting them down his whole life. Emotionally he's like a 5 year old sometimes. So he's not ready to give me the kind of support I need, and I'm waiting to see if he ever will be. Or if I'll ever trust him enough to let him, I suppose.

Other days I still feel like packing it all in right now. It will all probably come to a head soon as he has said he want to work toward having intimacy again and I still feel totally averse to the idea. Not sure how I'm going to resolve. The therapist said it's not a good idea to put a timeline on these things but I feel like there's one there anyway, ticking away. If in another 6 months I still cringe when he touches me I feel like I'll have to call it. Because you can't share a bed with someone when you feel like that.

Thanks again for checking in, it means a lot. I feel like I've been yammering about this so long everyone must be getting sick of me.

GW