Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[blondguy]

Thankyou TonyWK for your important thread

After many years in the Family Court trying only have my fortnightly contact visits I was surprised by many of my female friends that mentioned " Paul....'grow a set' (testicles) and 'just wait for your daughter to come to you 'in a few years'

This blase mentality doesnt exist for all women of course....but most of these female friends of mine 'forgot' that males also secrete a hormone when the child is born so we remain just as close to our child as the mother does

I think that Germaine Greer made a good point with womens liberation in the 1970's and good on her!

I can only imagine how a mum would feel if she only had 2 days per fortnight with her child

Two way street

My kind thoughts

Paul

[white knight]

Hi Paul,

As you know Ive felt the same pain of a broken marriage and 10 years of fortnightly visitations. Two daughters, when my eldest at 12yo came to live with me her mother cried foul to child support because having a child each her gravy train stopped at the equality station.

Sadly, her mother disowned her. This lovely girl just connected better to her dad than her mother (her mother was emotionally cruel as she was to me).

Eventually I married my daughters favourite ex auntie by marriage and now calls her mum and my wife was - the mother of the bride last year.

Anyway not all kids grow up with a fairytale story. I fell victim with my youngest as she was brainwashed from 9yo onwards.

Yes overall vindictiveness can harm men (and women) and that loss of ones fulltime parenthood is crushing. Definately most people can benefit from guidence at that time.

Overall the victimised dad is slowly being reduced with things like shared care. Hallelujah!

Dads in distress is a great organisation to contact.

Tony WK

[blondguy]

Hi Tony

I know you have been through the meat grinder and as where you find your balance in life I wish I knew

Thankyou for the 'Dads in Distress' link and replying....I have never heard of that before but do now!

You are a kind soul TonyWK

Paul

[Ggrand]

Hi Tony, This thread is moving quickly. I'm listening as soon as I can catch up I'll join in.

Very interesting thread, with a lot to take in and think about.

Karen.....Grandy

[Quercus]

Hi Tony,

I am really pleased to hear this thread is helping you climb back up.

The discussion between you and James and Paul and Kanga made me smile. It isn't often on the forums we see so many men contribute to one discussion on the forums. Only 30% of our members are male but I have written to a lot of men on the forums who have dealt with topics that you are all mentioning. So thank you all.

Not long ago my son started kindy and I began to see change in how others treated him. No longer in the privacy of our home and protected by me the comments began...

He can't wear that... He'll get the ... Kicked out of him.

Aparently 4 year old boys aren't allowed to dress up as Tinkerbell.

Or wear a green ribbon for sports day.

Or have a frog teddy on their school bag.

Or like Sophia the first (disney princess).

Or like drawing and craft.

Or being called a pushover or target because he is quiet and shy.

It made me feel sad. That a lot of these comments come from family. Even his Dad (who has learned to avoid the death stare of all death stares by not being a jerk to his son).

I couldn't care less about him doing any of those things. He is a little child exploring and learning the world not just a BOY. If his favourite colour is pink who cares?

It makes me sad to see something as simple as leaving my care for 3 days a week meaning his joy is slowly being pigeonholed. You must like this because you are male. BS!

I think the change comes from male role models. That's why poor hubby is learning to cross me on this at his own risk. He is trying. It goes against what he knows. His lessons on what makes a man are harsh ones.

But the benefit.... His father is slowly slowly learning that showing emotion and care is kind of a good feeling.

When noone is looking he sings (badly) to his son and his daughter.

Reads him bedtime stories (even if it is a story about fairies). And fully supports his daughter's love of sports.

Picks his son up and kisses bumps and scrapes. And puts bandaids on toys to match. And tells little miss to "brush it off" while he wrestles them both.

Learns the names of his son's friends at kindy even if all but two are girls.

It will change. I have every hope for a future where being born a male doesn't mean a lifetime of hiding feelings.

[Just Sara]

(Sorry to interrupt your thread Tony, but I'd like to say something I feel very strongly about. I hope you don't mind)

Boys were taken into their dad's shed as soon as they could walk to learn skills passed down thru generations, and girls sat on stools in the kitchen as mum prepared and cooked the evening meal.

When I visited my grandfather before he died, he took my son by the hand to my car and said; "Go and fill this bucket with water, take this lid off and pour the water in there, then place the lid back on. That's called a radiator. Don't do it when it's hot either; ok!"

My son was 6. He was teaching him basic car maintenance skills, few words and matter of fact. I nearly cried I was so happy.

Mum didn't have a son, so he taught me those skills too. Can I change my spark plugs or hand make ammunition for a 3030 rifle? Sure, and I can cook a tasty meal too. But I'd rather be cooking than doing everything.

I want to feel like a women and my man to be a man, not compensate for me by changing nappies while I'm working 12 hr shifts trying to pay an outrageous mortgage for a house full of 'things'.

I want him to stand over the BBQ with his mates on a Sunday having a beer while I gossip with other women about the price of bread/milk.

When he's upset or angry, I'll go out to his man cave where he's listening to old songs, sitting in an old armchair sharpening lawn mower blades. I'll give him a beer and ask if it's ok to talk after dinner. He'll nod and I'll leave. We'll talk when he's he's good and ready.

Is this too much to ask?

I've been standing by while our men are losing their identities and maleness. I hate it! I want old school back!

I'm so upset. This issue's hitting me hard. I've read each word about divorce, kids of divorce, money being their bargaining tool and confusion about what it means to be a man in this day and age.

Expectations of men/women are so outrageous now, it's no wonder people are filling our pages with confusion and disillusion. And, most are single and living alone. Doing it all!

I want my Pop back. I want to be just female. I don't want to do it all anymore.

Sorry...

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Sez (and hello to Tony WK and all),

I know things haven’t been easy for you and I hear you on how this is clearly very close to home. I feel you, alongside everyone else, is entitled to their own opinion.

If you are personally comfortable with traditional gender roles then I think it’s fine if you personally live up to them. That’s your own personal right and prerogative. And if you happen to find other people who agree with you then you and said people can live in accordance with those traditional gender roles.

But I feel while you have the right to choose how you lead your own life. I don’t feel you can expect everyone else to share the same ideals about gender roles as you.

I, for example, dislike gender based roles. My personal opinion is we should be allowed to be who we want to be based on our own likes and preferences and not based on someone else’s expectations.

For example, I’m okay with men doing most of the cooking (if that’s what they prefer) in a family. I’m also okay with women doing most of the cooking (if that’s what they prefer) in a family. My point is I feel our decisions should be based on our true desires and not someone else’s expectations.

Can you imagine how difficult and painful it would be for a man who doesn’t actually identify with what you describe to be “male”? Or females for that matter but considering the focus of this thread is on boys and men, I would prefer to focus on males.

Pepper xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Sorry, a correction:

*Can you imagine how difficult and painful it would be for a man who doesn’t actually identify with what you describe to be “male” to live up to your ideal of “masculinity”?

Or females for that matter but considering the focus of this thread is on boys and men, I would prefer to focus on males.

Pepper xoxo

P.S. loose aside, I actually don’t like cooking or being home much and I’m female.

[Elizabeth CP]

I relate to Sara's post although I think people should be allowed to chose what interests them. One of the things I find really hard in my current circumstances is that I have to do it 'all'. I can't leave my husband to do the heavy work any more. If there is a mouse in the house my husband & son's would deal with it as I couldn't. Now I'm on my own doing everything. My husband is blind & has other health issues. My dad gave my sons real hammers nails & saws to use before they could walk. Now my oldest son is not afraid to buy an old house & renovate it himself while his wife supervises his two young sons cutting wood like daddy nearby. Incidentally my son often takes the kids out on the weekend to give his wife a break like his dad did. He has grown into a very caring person who reaches out to people in need of either gender. What this illustrates is the importance of good role models in children's lives. Boys in particular need to learn how to use their strength in a positive way but that doesn't mean they need to be restricted to just traditional roles or interests.

I also hate it when women cherry pick which aspects of 'equality' they embrace. For example I 've known some who expect their husband to work & provide for the family so his paypacket is all for the family but when they get a job the money is just spend on her wants.

[Elizabeth CP]

I would like to share an example of a family member reaching out to another male in need. I'm sharing this in the hope that it may help inspire another reader to find a way to reach out to someone in need.

A male family member (I will call him Jack) was going through a very nasty marriage breakdown. Another member of the extended family I'll call him Ben) found out & was concerned so arranged to have Jack visit for tea each week. Ben's wife is a good cook & Ben believed Jack probably was not feeling like cooking for himself. Ben told Jack that he understood that the matter was very personal so he understood if he didn't want to talk about it but he was welcome to talk when he wanted. Jack has commented how much he appreciates this time. He knows Ben really cares. He knows he can trust Ben to listen & keep confidences and it gives him time to escape from his negative thoughts. I know what has happened because Jack has spoken to me directly.

Men can care for each other. They may not want to talk or cry in the same way as women may but they still need to feel someone is willing to listen & someone is concerned about them.