Seeking long term support - I'm a mother whose firstborn was coercively taken for adoption 30+ years ago. Severe PTSD, MDD, complicated grief & more.

[LaurieD]

Hello

I've hesitated to post in these forums as loss to adoption is often a volatile topic, but I write in hopes of meeting other mothers and fathers too who have lost to adoption against their will. I am blessed with wonderful help now but what I'd highly value is to meet others like me in here for ongoing interaction, especially when I'm running rough. Like right now. I'm suspicious this time of year (Nov) has an anniversary date in it but I can't recall what that could be.

I know the richness of trusted friends who walk beside each other, sharing their experiences and what gives them strength and hope can be the most helpful sometimes. Knowing the diagnoses etc is helpful, but living with it every day is the challenge and cannot be done alone. This environment allows for focus upon difficulties which perhaps my friends & family are somewhat jaded by after over 30 years, especially since they don't know what it's like to live with (thank goodness!).

Is there anyone in here who also walks this life-long journey with whom I could join in support for each other?

Thank you for your time :).

Kind regards

Laurie

[LaurieD]

Dear Everyone 🙂

Since reading everyone's posts I've been very contemplative, my heart full,mind whirling & I've been lost for words. I also know people outside of the forum from all sides, some wonderful, some nasty. My recent taste of the latter again has me metaphorically sitting on a mountain overlooking the whole scene & thinking. What on earth is going on?

The big picture looks complex & yet it's simple: human nature & worldviews are the root issue. A'n is modern & has a century+ history: its fruit troubles me.

What insight, wisdom & truth guide us in who to be, what to do & say & hope for/refuse, what our role is, how to interact with understanding of each other and more? What preparation have we all had?

Phoebe:"We just have to learn how to live with a hole in our heart". How are we&our children going with that? You'll never see your child again!" then "Your child wants to meet you: be a good 'birth'mother/rack off/you are/not my real mother."

Terese: what is your child doing & why?How can you help your child; should you even try?

Michele: who's guiding you re meeting your BMum? She's terrified; do you know why & of what? What does she need from you to earn her trust & vice verca? What r'ship would like to negotiate & build with her; why? What boundaries protect both of you?

Who gave our parents, society, social workers, judges, infertile couples, adopters etc the freedom & authority to demand our children choose between us & how we're to conduct our r'ship?

Q. What is a real mother? Who decides we are mothers/parents? The law/birth/parental authority/marital status?

A. Our children: they decide who parents them & grant permission to adults who are good leaders, worthy of their trust & willing to earn it, who train, guide, love & are committed to the child for the child's own sake & not just their own glory/wants/needs.

The brawls continue among parents,govt's,science,religion,society etc; many are good people, many not. When I listen to our children ie adoptees, what are they saying? "I've waited 36yrs to meet you, I'll wait another 36 to know you". Translation: "Mum, Dad... I need you." Correct? This in spite of wonderful adopters.

Today our children are fighting against adoption!

If my son seeks reunion who will he meet? A shattered woman? Yes, of course. A woman prepared with love, wisdom,insight,assertiveness,clarity, confidence&knowledge re who I am, what to say & do to all? No! But I intend to become that somehow,gulp.

Laurie xo

[PhoebeWings]

Hi Laurie,

Sounds like you had a harrowing time re your housing arrangements and dealing with real estates. Not needed eh?

The grief and painful feelings that grip me every now and then are in subjection right now. Long may it last.... until next time. Agh.

You know, I love my son and grandchildren more than anything - I’d love to love them in absolute freedom, as a ‘normal’ Mum.

It was heartbreaking for the first few years, to watch my son struggle with balancing our lives... his adoptive parents made it terribly hard.

His guilt about his adoptive mother’s pain - his own crisis of facing the reality that he was separated from his natural Mother. His confusion around so many feelings.

Our children of adoption have complex lives and identities, even in the face of a happy productive life.

I would have done anything to save him from the pain he went through in the early years, when his adoptive family basically ostracised him in reaction to his persistent desire to build a relationship with me ( even though he was so considerate of everyone to the best of his ability)

It’s strange, such a strange reality.

My son and grandchildren have ‘my’ mouth, nose and bone structure... I remember once us all sitting around sharing some photos we’d taken of us altogether in a group... ‘Nana’s definitely got the Smith nose’ said my grandson. Smith, being the adoptive surname my son and grandchildren go under. I had to smile, sort of!

But you know?

So over 20 years of reunited life and we’re family in a ‘box’ that stays within certain boundaries.

He is not allowed to speak of me, or mention my name - his adoptive family have blanked out my existence. I stay with him and visit ‘in secret’.

I find that terribly disrespecting of him - he is not allowed to bring all of himself to the adoptive family - acknowledgement of his reality - he must only be a ‘Smith’ - so he has to live a dual aspect life, in regards to family, his Mothers...

I think that angers me the most - although he seems to rise well above it all - he loves us all. He simply loves us all.

My heart goes out to our children.

We only ever wanted the very best for them. We just didn’t understand or realise that as our children were told the ‘chosen’ story, they were left in a vulnerable position - in their minds, they could be unchosen.

And then, as babies they experienced a primal loss....as we did too, their young Mothers.

We find support amongst each other.

Few get it. ❤️

[LaurieD]

Dear Croix

It's not that neat in my head either:) but I'm working on it.

Hmm yes, cop/detective; diff contexts,roles,experiences, yet all human beings deeply wounded, the only diff's being the degree, expression & management etc of it privately, publicly, professionally. How does a person construct a meaningful & fulfilling life regardless? Challenging!

I did put you on the spot:) so I'm happy to share my experience & thoughts.

We are on common ground re the decision about how our loved one's life will be brought to an end. My husband had to decide that re his dad so my hubby asked me what I thought. Gulp! My thoughts then & now are:

The truth is that death will happen so that now all hope for recovery is lost, what do we hope for now? To give the most kind & loving exit from this life possible. Do we have the freedom to choose how or when this man will live while dying, or death itself? If we choose an operation knowing it will kill him, is that murder? If we choose palliative care with morphine etc to stop his pain until he dies, is that cruel & still murder? Do nothing=inhumane?

Guilt is a position from having broken a law. In our case, what law? You shall not kill? No; the truth is you shall not murder. Murder speaks of evil motive in the heart. I learned from Vietnam vets who killed their dying & mutilated mates: their motive was love, for both of them.

We wanted a good death for him AND us, to be together, he died in loving arms. Medicine is to serve us; keeping him alive without hope was cruel but using it to bring a peaceful end was love. If he was in agony the op is the choice; if not then drugs to the end is chosen. We chose the latter.

We're not free to choose who lives or dies for self-centred/inhumane reasons but we are free to make the best & most loving choice we can about how a beloved dying person dies.

My brother-in-law wanted palliative care so he could gloat over his father's dying & death. We chose it to so this man was pain-free but might know love as he died.

I think my BIL is guilty of murder as his motive was to kill for his own delight & revenge. He broke the laws of love,honour,basic humanity.

So if guilt is a position of having broken a law, how can I determine guilt or innocence in the tough choice of how our beloved will die? The law of God/human nature,our actions, motives of our heart,the outcome? What is it I believe I'm guilty of? Not loving them good enough while death parted us?

My 50c.

B good to u.

Laurie

[PhoebeWings]

Hey Laurie,

I’m not sure if we were both writing posts at the same time... I just popped in to see your last message... I hadn’t noticed it there when I sent my latest post... didn’t want you to think I had read but not acknowledged or written without taking in your thoughts.

Can I just say.... I met my son when I was just 39/40 years old and he was just 25 years old. I think this helped us immensely, somehow.

We both had the energy and positiveness to manage to emotional rollercoaster.

We both sought and got counselling.

Our spouses were fully supportive and saw the raw side.

I know two Mothers who went on to have three kids each - and you know what? Both said that being a Mother to three kids, raising them was a fairy dust sprinkled walk in the Park compared to being a Mother to their reunited adult children.

Why? Because our adult children may want us as real Mums, but then resist that and push back...it’s conflicted, it’s a pendulum - until it stabilisés and we find our rhythm.

We love them with the best we can bring. That’s all ❤️

[LaurieD]

Hey Phoebe 🙂

I think we were writing at the same lol. Don't ever be worried about what I think as I choose to assume the best unless someone proves otherwise, like the real estate did!

Glad you have some peace atm. Escape from The Deep is SO good hey:). How r u enjoying this time?

I've not had reunion but do relate somewhat. The desire to express love openly, it's respected, embraced. The courage & commitment you & your son have is admirable; wow. Very inspiring & encouraging! I can't fully imagine how tough that was to live through.

It's not ideal that's for sure but the calibre of your son to make his own choices in such a tough situation, well, what a great man. Gotta be genetic!Your spouses are blessings.

The Smith nose; there's an essay right there :).

We didn't know the actual effect on our children but the elders & professionals did know from the beginning. I think we knew in our hearts but were vulnerable. We never chose rel't for our son, we just lost the war. Abducted for adoption sigh.

My heart goes out to our children too + other parents & lately even adopters. Even today they're as vulnerable & no more informed than in the past; given a child as if born to them, who'll never desire their original family, its family will forget it & yet...

Everyone involved with rel't & a'n are human beings. Well, most pfft. I've met/noticed loving, bitter, narcissistic to the max, kind, honest, deceitful, insane?, traumatised, desperate, amazing, wise etc people from all sides, incl in the dept, ministers,politicians,lawyers,judges,scientists,society... Few get it,as you say. Even we struggle. Why, I wonder? Is it strange, unnatural, not human?

I have 3 more children but my best leadership skills as a parent are lacking the tools re how to relate with my son. Most wing it, be/do their best as you et al do, many try but can't do it anymore. Where's the guide book? Role models? This 100+yr old new fangled invention of familial deconstruction & reinvention has zero precedence, no social norms, traditions, cultural, societal nor even Biblical structure or guidelines to seek help from. Except of course do by others as you'd have done by you.

We adore our son & long to meet him again but I'm afraid, confused, unconfident, starting to see that our expectations & hopes aren't realistic. All of you in here help me enormously; I'm listening, learning. Thank you all.

I haven't shared much of our story but will now & have a plan to search 4 insights.

L xo

[Veldelmar]

Hi Laurie,

Both my oldest brother and my sister have been my link between my bmom and me, and they both say the same thing - she doesn't understand why i'd want to know her and that she seems scared about it. I know that there has been a long history of mistrust in her family with the women. especially with her mom having the 2 girls forcibly removed into her gmom's care and her mom taking off back to her family. Then when she left town and went after her mother in another state, her mom didn't want nothing to do with her. In fact her mom went on to have 3 more kids that are younger than I am. Her mom would have only been 32 when my bmom had me at 18. Most of the women in her family line have become estranged from the rest of the family.

I can only build trust by getting to know my siblings and being patient I believe. If Whit feels that we can do a drop in at some point, i'll be willing and able to do so and might have to do it to get contact. I don't want her as a mother. I have one of them. It's not the best relationship, I was closer to my dad not as much her. But I'd love to know her as a person and as a friend and let the relationship grow on it's own accord, good bad or other.

I think there is some biological drive that makes me want to know her. It's a feeling that I have that I can't explain other than at 34 I decided I was ready to try and reach out and find her. Just felt like a need, like sleep or food. it's just there. Maybe because i was inside her for 9 1/2 months we have a blood bond that doesn't really go away. But I have/had my parents, they were great, dad always mom sometimes. I don't need another parent, i've been fully parented. But to connect with that person that shares my same momentary connection would be really nice.

There are quirks in my life that I know I didn't get from my family that raised me, and for sure come from my genetics, just speaking to the siblings I know that. like we all have a patch of red hair on our temples and our arm hairs grow out red. We all have really bad allergies and had buck teeth. somewhere I got music talent and it wasn't from my environment. I don't know. It's just one of those needs in life. to know where i come from and who's there and have friendship with them.

michele

[LaurieD]

Hey Michele 🙂

I've been squeezing in time in the forum between appts etc & I'm free now to chat to Michele & find another awesome letter :).

I've hung on your every word, think about them when I draw & marvel at you & your story. What a journey! I love your openness & kind frankness. Thank goodness for DNA. So pleased you have sibs & a great r'ship esp with your Dad & all the wonderful things in your life.

Sad to hear about the not so lovely things tho. Pretty messy in your original family & I'm glad you weren't raised in that tho I wish you could have known more & processed it all as you grew up.

You'll hear me say I disagree with modern adoption practices in preference for permanent guardianship cos SO many people & families are dysfunctional intergenerationally that a child needs others to parent them to break the cycle but adoption practices interfere with NB aspects. A topic 4 later.

Why would your Bgma take the children from their parents? Mean? Saving them?

Love what you say re not needing more parents. She is your mother but not in the role of mother/parent, but as friends. I aim for good f'ships with my now adult kids & we love being together. It's diff with adult kids & I so hope you & your BMum can build a r'ship you both love. Might be the 1st gr8 f'ship between women for generations.

My heart goes out to your BMum; low self value, fear of more rejection? I hope you meet soon & she can see you genuinely care about her & so both your needs r met. The harm caused when our baby is taken 4ever is huge but then a miracle:my child wants to meet me. That's big. Messy :).

The bond u speak of is a mysterious thing. BMums feel it too. Weird, hey. It's y a'n was closed & secret to keep us apart but it's power was underestimated; it causes issues in truly open a'n 2, complicates reunions & r'ships,healing etc. The principle of a'n is good but the practice of it creates avoidable problems & causes unnecessary hurt/harm to people who r the most precious creatures on earth. To read of your need to connect in a way that is a fundamentally basic human need at 36yo! I just don't know what to say, I can't 'file' that. Yet there are millions of adoptees who live with this.

So much I want to write but I'm running out of letters!

I wonder if my questions r clearly inquisitive & not passive-aggressive like, "Are you stupid?!" which is really a judgy comment disguised as a question? Without tone etc I get nervous re being misunderstood.

Cheers

Laurie xo

[Veldelmar]

The way I understand it with the bmom's grandmom - bmom's mom was 14 when she had bmom and either pregnant or just had my aunt at 16 when the husband suddenly passed away at 23 of heart failure. the gmom went to her buddies in law and took the 2 girls, and basically chased the mom away. then spent the girls youth spewing 'your mom abandoned you and i have to take care of you now' at them. She had also taken 3 of their cousins in around the same time, so she had 5 young kids in the house that she was raising 'for other people'. It's a pretty hot n complicated mess from my siblings side and information a 1st cousin has shared to me about growing up around them and staying with them in the summers.

This 1st cousin knew something big happened the summer I was born but didn't know what and just that bmom was gone and wasn't welcome back. It's just a big hot salty mess really. I know there is a lot of fear of rejection from my bmom, I can sense it almost. I know if I were in her shoes I'd be full of 'am i good enough' anxiety. Something that pulsed with me was that my sister came back from talking to mom about all this and said thank you this brought us closer together. So it's been multigenerational at it's best.

The adoption process both here and the states I could write pages about what is wrong/right with them all. like, I was lucky. My Aparents were great, all things considered, looking at other parents that adopted that I'm aware of in my little area of the world. They stayed together, they didn't fight, they treated me decent enough and i was really their kid, not some stand in. Not all Akids can say that. The things with my Amom are just things right? like they aren't that big of a deal, just mostly jealousy and use of guilt to get what she wants. I'm on to her and it doesn't work anymore, she's learning this.

I want a friendship with the bmom cause I just really don't need another parent, I'm 40 in like 21 days and i'm still being parented by an 81 yr old. We never got out of parent - kid, me and adad did but not amom. like I want to know you but i don't need parented anymore. Anyways, almost out of letters. Your questions are fine Laurie, don't bother me none and my answers are forward tell to much american style responses so hey we're good hahah. All the best for now.

Michele

[LaurieD]

PS Croix

That was a hell of a tough decision to make & it's so very sad you were put in such a position to have to choose. I will not ask you what it is you believe you are guilty of & I can only guess at the emotions... Perhaps regret, remorse, uncertainty, sorrow, failure? (Rhetorical question). Something I hope for you though is that among all the horrible stuff there's at least a tiny speck of gladness that it was you who bears this suffering & not her, that the situation was not vice versa thus she was spared of such heartache as what you endure.

You're a legend.

Be good to you.

Laurie

[PhoebeWings]

Hi Laurie and wave to Michelle,

I was thinking about the role of the Mother of Origin....

Its hard to put into words, the thing is, the adult adopted person already has one set of parents. This is true.

I remember years ago, my son and I were with some people and they commented on our relationship, the story of our reunion.

Someone said said to him...’how lovely for you both, It must feel like having a special friend, or a very close Aunty or something’

With only 15 years between us, I didn’t really ‘look’ like his Mum... more like an older sister I guess.

But, he said to me later, I can’t put a label on you! You’re my Mother, which is why we’re here, that’s what brought us together.

But, we both knew and know... I’ve not got the history of his nurturing Mother. I’m not that Mum.

I don’t parent him as such, but I do offer myself as his solid place...

We would not describe ourselves as simply friends, we are Mother and Son in our own original and special way.

Its important to me ( and him) that he gets to have the Mother-half which he was denied, that is his bonded blood Mother.

His adoptive Mother has the nurturing, historic Mother role, the Mother who raised him. Mum.

We have a non- transferable bond in being Mother and Son in ‘blood’ and have our own special family fierceness of love - but I leave plenty, plenty of space and air around us.... I know the place I occupy - and I respect and support my sons life and history as the adopted son of the ‘Smith’ family, along with the love they all have too.

Thats about the human relationship side - aside from that, I really have strong, strong feelings of anger about the mechanics of adoption.

Don’t get me started!

And what do we all ask for but a little compassion to love freely, without judgement or censorship.

My son once said, that it seemed impossible to him after we ‘met’ that two such closely connected humans should not have the freedom to share their lives and love.

And it’s true.