Seeking long term support - I'm a mother whose firstborn was coercively taken for adoption 30+ years ago. Severe PTSD, MDD, complicated grief & more.

[LaurieD]

Hello

I've hesitated to post in these forums as loss to adoption is often a volatile topic, but I write in hopes of meeting other mothers and fathers too who have lost to adoption against their will. I am blessed with wonderful help now but what I'd highly value is to meet others like me in here for ongoing interaction, especially when I'm running rough. Like right now. I'm suspicious this time of year (Nov) has an anniversary date in it but I can't recall what that could be.

I know the richness of trusted friends who walk beside each other, sharing their experiences and what gives them strength and hope can be the most helpful sometimes. Knowing the diagnoses etc is helpful, but living with it every day is the challenge and cannot be done alone. This environment allows for focus upon difficulties which perhaps my friends & family are somewhat jaded by after over 30 years, especially since they don't know what it's like to live with (thank goodness!).

Is there anyone in here who also walks this life-long journey with whom I could join in support for each other?

Thank you for your time :).

Kind regards

Laurie

[LaurieD]

Beautiful Phoebe.

Totally agree with all you've said.

Very touching.

Need a tissue.

Laurie xo

[Croix]

Dear Laurie (with a friendly wave to Phoebe)~

"My current lesson is self-compassion; apparently I don't have any. Ouch."

Um

Perhaps having a need to strive might be closer too it. Maybe the words mean different things to me, but self-compassion smacks of excusing, not facing or even simply living.

Words do mean different things to different people , DSP being a case in point, it is a label, and not one seen by your second husband who adores you. Whenever you have talked of making art you have mentioned the $ and it might be a factor in not attempting things. DSP may help your art be for its own sake.

You can strive unhindered by schedules, contracts or expectations (the same applies to telling your story if you plan to of course)

Incidentally I would suggest an improbability of walruses might be appropriate, or alternatively a mischief.

I wonder why that last one? Well I guess it is for the same reason I reach for Yes M/PM so often. As I have gotten older (and I've done a lot of that) I've found true answers to be very rare. This could be highly depressing, one could list endlessly human shortcomings however such a global downer would be hard to take. In fact it was, When my illness was at its worst that was one of the factors in not wishing to live - despair. In the end humor (plus medical and wife's support) saved me, but that is another story.

So my own two-fold approximations for answers. The first being to try for a gentle, kind and positive life, of use in some way (no, seeing your observations on the subject I'm not going to define that, I'm not silly:) in order that one gains a modicum of contentment and self-esteem. The second is borrowing humor, both gentle and sometimes harsh. The difference between Yes M/PM and Fawlty Towers.

Then again

“I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its
current conditions. And its current conditions are not good.” (HHGTTG)

I believe "Recovery" is a chimera (A fanciful mental illusion or fabrication), not a finite end-up state, not perfection. When I first became ill I thought everything hopeless, me powerless, except to 'fix' everything by dying. Then later I looked forward to "complete recovery". Um.

Now I try to compensate for the symptoms as part of me and even use them, as in here.

I've read CS Lewis and Tolkein but not Ryk Brown, would you accept Charles Stross instead?

Philosophers? Well if you want rigid: Hume, more emotional: Sartre, or visually then Samuel Beckett

Croix

[LaurieD]

Dear Croix 🙂

Thank you. Your words help much. Even the word use.

The Latin meaning of compassion is to suffer with but entails action to help reduce that suffering. It includes empathy, sympathy, kindness & action but is more powerful.

I've just deleted what I wrote. Have been soul searching & reflecting on all that's happened, how I hold myself responsible for all. I will not let myself off the hook for "letting them" take our son against every belief & value I held before God & man, knowing they were doing wrong but I couldn't stop them no matter what I did. In the end his life was threatened 2 weeks before he was born, so I complied. I caved; a traitor, capable of the blackest depths in a human heart & not worthy of trust. I don't really want to tell my story, it's horrific, I just want it to end.

The first psychologist I saw in '08 used to be with the Army in Iraq & often acted as expert witness in court cases, so he wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade - good stuff. He stated that the facts I've recounted re the past & current events are torture, brain washing & subjugation, that he rarely & only ever uses the word victim in its true sense & that I am a victim. I was stunned & replied that even if I believed that it's no excuse. My next psychologist & psychiatrist said same yet I never told them what the others said. It still shocks my mind. This is what I mean by no self-compassion - taking no action against stopping the suffering I believe I deserve because I did the unthinkable as a woman & mother, just stood there as they took him knowing it was wrong but too weak to stop anything until '17. Nausea.

Every time I almost let myself off the hook because I'm only a human I fill with pain, anger & powerlessness at the injustice they're all getting away with. They could have cut him from my womb & gotten away with it cos the moment adoption is involved no-one is or has ever been held accountable legally, socially for their actions. To me it's the same as the kowtowing again which is not good for me or them. I remind myself that I'm controllable, deceivable, will crack under pressure & betray & cower cos if I forget that I'll do it again & hell will freeze before I ever EVER agree to harm my loved ones via myself again. But I'm not all-powerful so can only do my best. It's like my son is their weapon when I displease them - lunacy. They get away with it tho no matter what I've done. So I feel like a whipped dog who should have fought harder.

L

[LaurieD]

Dear Croix

While I'm upsetting the lies in my mind so well I'd like to nail this one down too... I don't know how to live now.

I speak of the bad stuff but there's good stuff too. When I was 30 I began healing by learning boundaries & assertiveness then over the next 20 kept doing all I could to grow my character, the last 10 with professional help. My parents had their own struggles, did the best they could & we have good memories. They have shortcomings that are difficult to live with, as does my twin sister & I'm not perfect either, but I was the scapegoat, born evil & had to be kept away from my siblings etc. We all struggled & I wore it, resisting total hostile takeover by two insecure parents but miracles do happen.

In '01 I had a strange phone call, a dear family friend asking my forgiveness for her role in taking my son. Wow. I didn't know she was involved too. Apparently she'd "gone the rounds of the table" with my dad, as he described, for 5 years re his treatment of me. In 08 he asked my forgiveness. Wow. Not re our son but a good start. I was still pretty alienated from my family but things were improving. Then the proverbial hit the fan via my twin sister who still struggles with the traits we grew up with & can also be very difficult. So she took up the torch basically so I asserted boundaries with her & she reacted in the familiar way - attack. 10 more years of hell, my family reeled even my dad - maybe I really was born evil etc. Sophisticated silver-tongued toxic religion. I was out again & she tried to take my other 3 children, lunacy! I'm not perfect but have genuinely done nothing to deserve this.

A complicated long story short, 2 years ago I was vindicated & all but my twin asked my forgiveness & want to earn trust. Wow. Stunned me. I'd mostly stayed silent, kind & honest throughout, kept boundaries, didn't attack but gee it broke me. My kids had to learn some insights no child should. My twin has changed her name & rejected the family, sees a psych for a personality disorder. I speak with her now, carefully - she's pretty broken.

I also reached out to my son recently to try again - secretly this time. He still doesn't want contact after what my sister did but is happy for his AMum & sister to chat with me which is a HUGE turnaround they said. They've been worried about us too re all that happened in 08/09. Touching.

So the last 2 years have been quiet yet I still fear the next thing. Is it over yet? I'm afraid.

Laurie

[Croix]

Dear Laurie~

I can give you logic, I can give you the perspective of someone outside you, but I can't make your emotions turn around with just these.

The taking of your child, the actions of your parents, and those of your sister are all outside you, however like most human beings with soul you take their faults as being yours. And it twists your heart.

Being frightened of what life might hold, OK that is reasonable, but it does not mean you do not keep on going.

I told someone in another post I saw a seal asleep right beside the foreshore road -a common sight apparently but alien to me. It let me see there is so much outside myself.

You have told of hopeful things, your friend's remorse, your dad asking forgiveness for some of the things he did. The time 2 years ago he and all but your sister saw you, wanted your forgiveness and sought your trust.

The more successful contact this time towards your son - still a long way to go perhaps, but not a locked door.

You have a loving person to travel the world and your mind with.

Just listing the good things is not going to cut the mustard and make you see everything with new eyes, however it can take some of the sharpness out of the self blame and agony.

Being close to another who does not think you blameworthy and would heal you if they could does help, or so I've found. No, it is not a 100% banishment of your thoughts and feelings, but can give courage, a slowly growing perspective and engenders your concern for them.

I still blame myself for events in my past, it is livable with, and gets more so as I get older. After my first wife passed away I miraculously found some else who does the same, or she found me.

Kids having to learn, with you and your husband there for them not such a bad thing, even if it was learning of great pain - which you bear, or the cruelty of others.

You talked of self-compassion, in my case it was a seed that has only grown when in a loving supportive atmosphere, with the original causes gone. For you it is harder as the original cause is not gone, but nevertheless less I believe it is happening.

I'm notif hte above makes much sense

Sir Humphrey: You're speaking in riddles, Bernard.
Bernard: Oh, thank you, Sir Humphrey.
Sir Humphrey: That was not a compliment, Bernard!

Croix

[LaurieD]

Dear Croix

Thank you.

I feel for you re the loss of your 1st wife, sad stuff. Glad you have love again. I can tell you've been through much as your humility, character & wisdom shine; it was hard earned. Your legacy in serving people is priceless. You inspire me greatly.

I think what you say does make sense, & I like riddles. Let's see if I get you...

I'm taking on what doesn't belong to me, integrating into myself what doesn't belong to me. Life is scary at times but don't stop living, there's much in the world & life to embrace - love, hope, courage, acceptance, gratitude. True the event is ongoing but it's manageable.

How'd I go?

I've been fragile but embrace facing what I hope is the last great bastion of my troubles. Had a good sleep & am drawing now, listening to an ebook I hadn't finished. The topic of moral injury, trauma & shame came up so I pricked up my ears. The insight of this author is like water to a parched man. As I listened I reflected on my situation, beliefs, things I wrote to you about how "I am" a traitor etc & it's hit me like a lightning bolt that I am in huge error.

I've measured my "choice" by normal moral circumstances but it wasn't! Soldiers, emergency services etc can't apply such to actions in eg war to everyday moral standards as the situations are high stakes & not usual.

Also I am not defective; other's shame was visited upon me. The author explained it clearly & I can see it now - shaming is the thing to be despised, not people. So obvious now! My self-hatred is shaming myself & that's SO wrong - it's time to stop it. It's hard but I can't claim ignorance now. Feel like a blimmin' yoyo atm but what a relief, phwargh. This is the ladder to climb out of the pit. Some things will stay tough of course but easier with this resolved. So pleased I chose that book tonight - perfect timing :).

Is that what you also meant by outside of oneself?

Also told myself off: have spent the last 22yrs ensuring I don't fail again so don't be silly. That was then, this is now. Btw the philosophers I'm reading are Stoics; Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius et al. Inspiring lives.

Now to Laughter...

Took ages to pick this quote, giggling too much eg when Humphrey's key was taken off him.

Hacker: Eccentricity can be a virtue.

Humphrey: If you call it individualism.

Bernard: That's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it. I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist.

I hope life is well for you :).

Salute

Laurie

[Croix]

Dear Laurie~

Thank you, and I loved those irregular verbs, Bernard cites several if I remember correctly, they dovetail in with my classical schoolboy education.

Yes you do get it - ATM. I have found the trick is not to forget during the hard times and then have to rediscover it again - perhaps your art can act as a reminder? You might represent the correct allocation of responsibility in it then can view it afresh and re-learn.

Moral injury. I think long term that is as bad as physical matters, combined is deadly. Unfortunately we have a legal system, not a justice system, and it is often not a fair one, thus on many occasions I had to take action against those for whom the penalty was disproportionate to the actions, effectively enforcing an unjust system.

Very hard to always remember that this is the best there is, all we have, and so on.

This talk is getting me too serious with reflections of the past looming, so I'll refer to 'justice' another way:

The rain it raineth every day,
upon the just and unjust fella;
but more upon the just
because the unjust stole the just's umbrella

I'm glad you are enjoying selecting quotes, I do too

Croix

[LaurieD]

Dear Croix

My husband often calls me an irregular verb :). We are of like minds re art- my cards with these insights on them & read often.

Heartfelt agreement re moral injury & umbrellas. Really tough. True, something is better than nothing but, yeah. Much I could say about the use of legalistic injustice at the expense of the Principles each Act's legislation is to serve, but sufficient to say that sometimes good things happen in strange ways, thus I know our son is not legally adopted (so none of them are). In 08 I sought help from a brilliant & good magistrate re my uniquely difficult position where Dirty Warfare had trapped me between the Adoption Act & another civil Act & I was a sitting duck. I'd hoped he would twig that the original situation didn't have clean hands under a higher Act & that I'd gotten that law bit correct, & thankfully he did. Anyway, some extraordinary things happened & one can't help but rejoice at the rare & unexpected consequence of good things happening to bad people in the proper sense.

All of this stuff in my life has challenged every belief, value, attitude, perception in distressing ways & yet it's kind of powerful too. Hard to put into words. It's like I can now make educated choices about who I choose to be & how to respond to life regardless of how good or bad something is.

Time to stop thinking. Atm life is wonderful.

Hacker: The statistics are irrefutable...
Sir Humphrey: Statistics? You can prove anything with statistics.
Hacker: Even the truth.
Sir Humphrey: Yes... No!

Be good to you

Laurie

[Croix]

Dear Laurie~

Choosing how to respond to life starts out as impossible, but as times and experience increase it gets a little easier -though at least for me not always successful. I hope to be totally in the driver's seat one day and unerringly select the occupation or strategy that will get me though (well, I can hope can't I?)

It's good to hear of a win for justice in our legal system and the benefit to you, that is heartening.

Your saying "Time to stop thinking. Atm life is wonderful." followed by deliberately searching out a quote is so great to read.

Reminds me of Paolo Conte's Via Con Me

Croix

.

[LaurieD]

Dear Croix

"Iss one ah full, iss one ah full... chips, chips" ha ha ha. Cool song :).

"Atm life is wonderful"- key word is moment. Your key word is hope. As for the object of hope ie being totally in the driver's seat one day and unerringly select the occupation or strategy that will get me through no doubt that it's better than despair but for me it depends on the moment. One moment hope reigns supreme, the next it's just a vain imagining & unrealistic optimism again.

Not long before joining this forum I gave up pursuing cure to learn to live with"this is it" the wonderful prof's helping me insisted is the truth. At times am still prone to a stinking attitude about it esp since the propaganda & downright lies promoted in adoption is increasing in Oz. I was met with a resounding communal hell no to my advocacy aspirations. Too fragile apparently. But in spite of avoidance the simpering lies comes out of the blue again, gets past my safety net & is exasperating & infuriating cos it's not the truth historically or today. Top professional people have been fighting against this for years; SA is Guardianship only now but east Oz it's escalating. 😞

So I try to support my peers but am pretty useless cos at the first sign of their pain am a blubbering mess, make things worse, feel guilty, self-centred & useless.

How to escape it? One moment life's great, the next it isn't. How to endure this & build a full, rich & meaningful life? How to use these experiences to help & serve others?

Now I seek tools to help me in the bad moments & how to enjoy the good one, the main insight is, "Evil is real but so is good. Life can be brutal but it can be beautiful too. Embrace the good & the beautiful". Expand my life to accommodate the horrid stuff & just let it sit there, noted but not focused upon. 1/2 a step forward 50back, another 1/2 forward, moment by moment. "Why?! What's the point?!" I wail yet again & refill the self-pity pool to wallow in as I revisit my plans to become a hermit or a swaggie, or both.

In response to my pathetic sulking I ask, "Why try? What's the point? "Cos there's a force more powerful than d eath & it is love. Not that self-centred simpering fake apostate rubbish they baptise as love, no! Real love in all it's Greek meanings; do & be the opposite of what they did/do to you & others as best you can. So get out of that blasted pool, dry your tears, choose wisely what you think you can live with in reality & get on with it!"

So hard

Laurie