C-PTSD and fear of people

[Eagle Ray]

Warning: possibly trauma activating content.

I have made significant improvements in complex trauma symptoms in the past year. One of my biggest fears is that people are going to harm me which is ever-present but had lessened a lot. Then on Monday I got triggered by something that is probably not harmful but activated terror in me. It’s too much to explain the context here.

Do others have this extreme fear of people and if so is there something that you’ve found helps you?

To me it is experienced as life threatening terror. I can feel my body literally recoil from any contact with humans. Animals are safe to me but not humans. I have experienced a lot of trauma throughout my life.

Over the past week I’ve had unrelenting anxiety which yesterday also became depression which I know is a result of the anxiety not resolving. I want to run away from all people and go somewhere remote in nature. I’m also dealing with bouts of cognitive confusion linked to an autoimmune condition I have which isn’t helping.

I know self-isolation is not a good or healthy long term strategy. However, I want total isolation from people right now. It is the only way I can feel safe. It can feel like this is the only way I can be safe in life, to avoid people as much as possible, even though there is part of me that loves people and wants connection. But right now connection feels profoundly dangerous. I am back in the centre of my childhood terror.

Right now the Bruce Springsteen song Brothers Under the Bridge is speaking to me in which a Vietnam veteran tries to explain his need for isolation to his daughter. I think my grandfather was like this in how he isolated from others following traumatic war experiences. I think I’m trying to work my way out of this inherited intergenerational trauma as well.

[white knight]

Thankyou Goddess for your 3 part series lol.  Lucky actually it got through mods as they usually cut it down to only one post at a times, hence the 2500 character limit, but thats learning about the forum.

My wife and I love caravanning and out fav spots includes birds, Herons, Hawks, Wedgetails and Blackbirds. Then there's water- whales!! At Augusta 2016 we were going down to the south west tip of WA at Augusta and along the way my wife nearly caused me to veer off the road, about 300 metres away was a whale breeching. 

I think animals unlike humans are harmless (precautions for the dangerous ones) but as I come from a manipulative narcissistic family I have that inner peace I'm not going to be hurt, mind twisted by a penguin!

TonyWK 

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hello (again!),

Haha that's funny white knight, yes I am learning about the protocols of the forum. Animals are amazing!

DIG 

[Eagle Ray]

Hello divine inner goddess (DIG), Tony and anyone else reading,

DIG, I relate to everything you wrote there. I have just come back into phone/internet reception after several days out of range. I’m still on the road and loving it. What you said about shades of grey and that balance with alone time reflects my trip so far. I’ve been mostly on my own doing photography in nature. But I have visited a town cafe for lunch one day and a country pub for lunch another day. The people who ran the cafe were lovely. I got to hear the locals all catching up with each other and having a good chit chat. At the country pub I met a great character in his 70s travelling around in his van with his cat. I feel like I got to know his life story. And I got to chat with the woman serving at the counter and learned about her big family. So I’ve felt really enriched by the people contact, but grateful to be able to experience it in short bursts and then retreat to my solitude.

In one remote spot I found there is a camp for war veterans. It’s out in the bush and I totally get them wanting to be out there. I expect many have PTSD. The remoteness is where you can start to find yourself again. You don’t have to answer to society out there. It feels safer to me and I’m so content in the remote places I’ve been. I’m not extremely remote, but out exploring in wild places where there are only very small towns nearby.

 I’m so sorry you’ve had that terror as well. I’m so glad you have the support system around you and you are pro-active in using it. I have a lovely psychologist and a few people in my life I consider my safe people. Yes, it’s really important to maintain those contacts with the people we trust and feel safe with. The way you described the terror is so similar to what I experienced. I’m still coming down from the last episode but I’m definitely much improved.

And Tony, I have nearly done the same thing in Augusta seeing the whales while driving along the road to Cape Leeuwin. I didn’t see them breach but spouting. I too feel like animals are harmless compared with people. Snakes don’t bother me at all and I love seeing them. It’s good to make sure you don’t step on one, but they don’t go out of their way to bite you. Earlier this year I actually considered becoming a snake catcher and picked up a brochure on it. I honestly find that less scary than many jobs with people! But, despite my fear of people, I’m glad I still genuinely like people. I just need my safe space/solitude.

[Eagle Ray]

P.S. DIG I meant to say how much I enjoyed reading about your cat. I looked after a friend’s cat a couple of times in recent months and I just loved being with her. I enjoyed afternoon naps with her. She would purr while I patted her and then fall asleep and then I’d fall asleep. I really agree that that co-regulation with animals and/or humans is so important. So even if we have a drive towards solitude, we still get some meaningful interactions with other living beings who are safe.

[white knight]

People? The older I get the less I want contact (with some types). I've learned that narcissism is more rampant than I ever realised, that the females in my family have it in spades (except my daughter). That 12 years ago I removed my mother in my life after she threatened to ruin my 2nd wedding. She'd ruined my first wedding in 1985. I've been so forgiving thinking she would learn her lessons and stop being so destructive with everyone. 

I told her once "mum, you know I worked in a jail... I was on the good side of the bars". I'd do all the son things, paint her house, do her garden, mount a clothes line... but was never good enough. 

My sister decided to remove our mother also 12 years ago. My relationship with my sister grew over time but I knew I was running a risk due to past incidences. I was always supporting her. Then last xmas all hell broke loose, she involved me in a dispute I didnt want to be in, a dispute between my daughter and her. I sat on the fence but it wasnt good enough and before long the evil rose up, she turned my adult nieces against me. It isnt that I did wrong, its because I didnt ring my daughter up and condemn her behaviour. eg take sides.

So 8 months later I'm still grieving for my loss. Also I cant return them to my life as I cant trust it wont happen again. My sister has gone the way of my mother and I've been told where the problem likely lies.

A friend told me to google-  queen witch hermit waif

The 4 characters of chronic BPD or NPD. The problem isnt their likely condition, its not acknowledging they have it and then getting treatment. The stubbornness is profound.

My challenge apart from my loss is to not view other people accordingly. Some people can be amazing, others challenging but toxic? I can live without that.

TonyWK

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Tony,

I’m so sorry you’ve had those struggles with your family. Good on you for not taking sides in the dispute. I feel it isn’t right for someone else to draw us into their conflict. It is one thing to hold a view, and another thing to try and recruit others into that view and criticism of another person.

My mother may have had BPD and at times had narcissistic behaviours. However, I wouldn’t say she had NPD. Her younger brother I think very likely has NPD. He is the textbook definition of it. Her older brother had definite narcissistic traits. Their mother was a profoundly messed up person who spoilt her sons while emotionally and physically abusing my mother. It seems these things can run in families and there is often something twisted and messed up in the family history. Just as my mother was abused by the triangulating behaviours of her mother, she also did the same, elevating my brother as her special son/golden child and denigrating me as the scapegoat. Not surprisingly my brother has developed some narcissistic traits which I cannot see him growing out of. He now has an intensely narcissistic partner. I’ve had to grieve the loss of a closer, more emotionally real and healthy relationship with my brother, so I really empathise with the losses you’ve experienced and the real grief it causes. I agree that stubbornness is a huge issue in family members who won’t admit there’s something wrong with their behaviour. They will project and gaslight to avoid taking any responsibility. I’ve learned the only thing I can do in this situation is walk away and have minimal contact.

 I very much understand the loss of trust in people. It is often the first thing I’ll do - assume a person I’ve just met is going to potentially harm me in some way. If someone proves to be trustworthy over time I can let my guard down somewhat. It’s hard for me though to implicitly trust 100%. I can be quite friendly with people I meet even if part of me is a bit fearful. But if they try to get closer to me I start to feel I have to self-protect by keeping a distance. I think there are a few people we really can trust more easily and know we are safe with, and those are the people we can allow in more. I think there is a deeper intuitive part of us that just knows when we encounter people who are made of good. I’m trying to engage primarily with those people now.

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hi Eagle Ray, 

How are you going? How's your trip? I love that you had those meaningful, enriching interactions with people at the café and pub, in short bursts. Then back to nature and solitude. Awesome! Sending you a high five. 

Thank you for your empathy. I am so sorry that the terror was so frightening for you too. I have C-PTSD too from a dysfunctional 'family' and multiple traumas throughout my childhood and adult life. I get it, that everything can be going along reasonably ok, and then there's a trigger, and up comes the PTSD again. For me, the trigger for the panic/terror was the thought of going back to work. That 'episode' of terror lasted about 5 months until I got the sleep medication to break the cycle. I am still recovering too.... I hope you are recovering more and more each day.     

Eagle Ray and Tony (white knight) - I actually became quite overwhelmed this week, reading the posts in this discussion. I am fairly new to these forums. I think it was a relief at first to read about other people's struggles and to realise that I can relate, and that I am not alone. Thus, the flurry of the three posts in a row! Such excitement to connect with people who 'get it', hooray!! But then, it became confronting and overwhelming to see parts of myself and my story mirrored back to me - if that makes sense? Particularly when I googled queen/witch/hermit/waif, the borderline mother types. OMG, that was confronting. My mother was the witch type with a bit a queen. I even wrote a story about her once and I cast her as a witch, so I was spot on, haha! It took me a few days to recover from reading that website.... And now I am back! My psychologist suggested to dip in and out of these chats when I feel that I can handle it, which I think is wise. It's helpful to connect, but can also be a bit 'triggery' in and of itself. Again, it's the dilemma of hideaway to stay safe versus connection. I guess it's a balance. You have both been on here a while, how do you get the balance right? Tony, I can so relate to your family history/dysfunction, rife with BPD and narcissism - thank you for sharing. I hope you are enjoying the birds and whales. 

Take care, 

dig

[Eagle Ray]

Dear DIG,

I’m so sorry if the discussion was triggering but I also get it. Sometimes I stick to the BB Social Zone or Staying Well thread if I am not up to anything heavy. I agree, there is a balance between connecting over traumatic experiences and having some space from those experiences and discussions. I’m back from my travels now and I guess that was me taking a break from all the challenges of my life and roaming free for a bit over a week. Stuff like traumatic memories really diminished as I was absorbed by new sights and experiences on my journey. I left my home in the disarray it was in, stuff everywhere and unable to deal with it. Now I’m back my energy levels and functionality are much improved. I’ve actually completed several household tasks I just didn’t have the mental and physical capacity to deal with before I went away.

So, yes, I think it’s finding a balance between looking into trauma stuff but taking a break and being immersed in healing, light and fun stuff too. I find when I research trauma stuff the curious part of my brain gets activated as I laterally explore, one thing leading to another. I learned that curiosity shuts down the trauma circuits in the brain. So I think that helps protect me somewhat. But sometimes stuff still gets through and triggers if it activates particular feelings and memories. I’m thinking it might be a good time, if you find that happening for you, to go and co-regulate with your cats. I know people with PTSD are often helped by their therapy dog when they get triggered.

 I very much relate to the going back to work trigger. I have been very unwell with my autoimmune liver disease and feeling under pressure from Centrelink to be working again. Then I applied for a 3 month medical exemption and got it. I finally had breathing space and it took off that pressure. It’s given me a chance to start getting well and I feel that is happening now. I may not have to apply for DSP as I thought and actually be able to work again, at least part time. But I totally get it as the thought of trying to go back to work when I knew how much it would compromise my capacity for recovery was a massive trigger for me and making me worse. I think we know intuitively in our own body what we can handle at any given time and it’s so important to find a way to honour that.

Take care and sending you very best wishes.

[white knight]

Hi DIG

In just about everything we do we should seek balance and your advisor was correct, monitor your activity here depending on you capabilities. It's the reason I've lasted here 10 years.

We all react differently,  when I realised the core of my family issues was the 4 characters I jumped for joy. Up till then I was the victim.

Very late now catch up soon. I'm glad your here.

TonyWK

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hi Eagle Ray, 

Thank you for your concern about the discussion being triggering for me. I agree that balance is the key. And yes, I will co-regulate with my cats if the discussions get too much. I took on board your suggestion, and today I started reading a book and listening to an audio on trauma. Like you said, it sparked curiosity.... Then, I took myself on an adventure to a more remote beach than my local one, and spent some time in nature. I saw a whale! and lots of birds. Enjoyed the sunshine and a swim. A good balance. 

Re work. I had a major breakdown about 18 months ago and I haven't been able to work since then. Thankfully, I have been on income protection payments, but that runs out soon. 

Yes, your comment, "...the thought of trying to go back to work when I knew how much it would compromise my capacity for recovery was a massive trigger for me and making me worse," rings true for me too. I was just getting more and more heightened and agitated even at the slightest hint of expectation or pressure. My therapists were even contributing to the problem. My psychologist had an idea/vision of what I could do for work that would be less taxing. Kinda the same as what I was doing before, but seeing less clients in a week. I see that as sort of like going back into a toxic relationship, but just seeing the person once a week instead of living with them.  Ummmmmm, that's not going to work. Even her holding that hope for me was creating expectation and pressure and making me worse. In my last session I actually confronted her about it and she admitted that it was her 'fantasy' and she got it that it wasn't helpful for me, and she was able to let it go. I felt very relieved after that. It felt like we were back on the same page and she was here, with me, now, in the present moment. Not off in her fairyland fantasy, haha. 

I am not sure what I am going to do for income. I feel as if any kind of work would be too overwhelming and triggering for me. The breakdown is my body telling me that I can't take anymore. I like your comment, "I think we know intuitively in our own body what we can handle at any given time and it’s so important to find a way to honour that."    Yes, indeed! I am considering the DSP or a payout from my insurance..... or both..... I trust that the way forward will work itself out so that I can continue healing. 

Take Care, 

dig