C-PTSD and fear of people

[Eagle Ray]

Warning: possibly trauma activating content.

I have made significant improvements in complex trauma symptoms in the past year. One of my biggest fears is that people are going to harm me which is ever-present but had lessened a lot. Then on Monday I got triggered by something that is probably not harmful but activated terror in me. It’s too much to explain the context here.

Do others have this extreme fear of people and if so is there something that you’ve found helps you?

To me it is experienced as life threatening terror. I can feel my body literally recoil from any contact with humans. Animals are safe to me but not humans. I have experienced a lot of trauma throughout my life.

Over the past week I’ve had unrelenting anxiety which yesterday also became depression which I know is a result of the anxiety not resolving. I want to run away from all people and go somewhere remote in nature. I’m also dealing with bouts of cognitive confusion linked to an autoimmune condition I have which isn’t helping.

I know self-isolation is not a good or healthy long term strategy. However, I want total isolation from people right now. It is the only way I can feel safe. It can feel like this is the only way I can be safe in life, to avoid people as much as possible, even though there is part of me that loves people and wants connection. But right now connection feels profoundly dangerous. I am back in the centre of my childhood terror.

Right now the Bruce Springsteen song Brothers Under the Bridge is speaking to me in which a Vietnam veteran tries to explain his need for isolation to his daughter. I think my grandfather was like this in how he isolated from others following traumatic war experiences. I think I’m trying to work my way out of this inherited intergenerational trauma as well.

[Croix]

Dear ER~

You are right in saying that gut wrenching terror can't be stopped by logic. It needs other things to bring it down.

You are certainly on one right track with driving to nature and surrounding yourself with  it. For you it has no threat. It involves physical activity, a change of environment so your familiar walls do not keep on echoing back all the horrible thoughts, and gives you an activity to concentrate on - all excellent, though maybe not always enough.

There are times I can't do some other activity and have to use another method, a place in my mind. I may well have mentioned it before -my apologies - but I think it can bear repeating, the technique does help me quite a bit. You will no doubt have a different place to imagine.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/store-your-happy-memories-here/m-p/569546/highlight...

If all else fails plot what you are going to do to sabotage my igloo

Croix (who is sorry he just suggested that)

[white knight]

Thanks Croix, sometimes topics need all the help we can muster.

ER Re: ..." is speaking to me in which a Vietnam veteran tries to explain his need for isolation to his daughter. I think my grandfather was like this in how he isolated from others following traumatic war experiences. I think I’m trying to work my way out of this inherited intergenerational trauma as well."

I had an uncle that suffered terribly from WW2. In the end at 82yo he passed by his own hand. Some of the trauma in my family seems to have passed down generations so I'm almost certain this is likely the case. Nervous conditions, inability to stop worry and other things, all seem too coincidental to be just us.

Croix- Re: "It needs other things to bring it down"  I'm really interested in this, what are the possible things to help dissolve terror? We've mentioned distraction, career/environmental/relationship changes. Is changes dependent on the person eg a trip to the beach might be all thats needed for some to last a few weeks, months but a trip to the beach for some might not inject enough peace and distraction to make any measurable difference. So you return home without any progress.

ER Re: "It can feel like this is the only way I can be safe in life, to avoid people as much as possible, even though there is part of me that loves people and wants connection. But right now connection feels profoundly dangerous. I am back in the centre of my childhood terror."  Avoiding people- It isnt ideal that we have to navigate around/away from people to feel safe. I feel some form of cowardice doing that yet I've done just that for 36 years. Long queues, concerts, even a packed medical centre. Yet I identify with "even though there is part of me that loves people and wants connection".  It is the wrestle within.

TonyWK

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Croix,

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts. It is the realm of imagination, visualisation, instinct and intuition that I find healing. Being in nature is part of that as it is where I am instinctively drawn to. I find only after immersing myself in those worlds can I access logic/analytical parts of the brain. I feel held in nature and literally co-regulate with it - birds, animals, rocks, trees, plants etc. Doing photography in nature seems to really help my cognitive function, perceptual focus etc. Those things haven’t worked well lately but start to restore once I have a camera in hand and I’m immersed in wild landscapes. And I think returning to past good memories is so helpful too, because it reminds us how we felt then and that can have a really healing effect on the mind/body/spirit.

And of course there is nothing like humour and mischief to lift the spirits. It is gleeful to run amok on your iceberg. I might have to go and find MK and LRC and plot something. Hee hee!

[white knight]

I know poetry isnt for everyone but I wonder if this connects to your "iceberg"?

SOCIETY OF SAND

I’m sitting in a desert

Upon sand of friend and foe

Can’t find a piece of turf

Where I cannot stand on toes

I collect a handful of grain

Then watch as it escapes

Just like some friendships

A barren temporary landscape

I create my own oasis

By weeping on a weed

But the sand around me laughs

Cause it doesn’t have a need

Till lately it be the friends

That helped me walk the land

They holding me up under my feet

-supportive grains of sand

I begin to sink so slowly

As they gather my precious hide

The quick sand laughing so loud

A kind man says goodbye

And as I become one of ‘them’

My heart now granuled and dry

I try to weep to water the weed

But sand has no means to cry

Damn it! I struggle so

Be damned if I be like them

I crawl out of the society of sand

To remain the man I am…

THE CORNER OF THE BUSH

Given society a gentle push

Arrived in the corner of the bush

Moved fast lane aside for harmony

Closer to ones own – destiny

Shadow moon shines infinitely

Night owls a symphony

Sitting arms in Buddha pose

Spiders allowed to dance upon my nose

Furry paws best caring hand

No shield needed in wonderland

No internet, no dog and bone

All the stones are never thrown

In the corner of the bush

Give society a gentle push

Blending bark with your skin

Protesters nearby – but they will not win

Children nearby ‘hide and seek’

We all end up as a compost heap

Fun and more fun echoes all around

Some life lived – some never found

Further and further into branches and leaves

Like us, do animals grieve?

Bush no need for duck and weave

Only matters – what you believe

Hark the bells of sanity

No mirror for your vanity

Rocks thrown from a cowards lair

I’m in the bush…no quarry there

Trip over plastic traps

Cradle broken bird in your lap

Send society with that gentle push

From the corner of the bush

TonyWK

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Tony,

Thanks again for your beautiful poetry. I was just reading Croix’s description of images of a place of retreat in the memories thread, and it feels like nature is a place of retreat for you too. It certainly is for me.

I’m just seeing your other message above now. Even though you may feel those retreat tendencies are cowardice, I guess the way I have come to see it is that it’s the body instinctively trying to protect us from harm. It can make a lot of sense based on our past experiences. It’s not a conscious choice but a survival mechanism. I’m gradually learning to have compassion for that part of myself which I think is where the beginning of healing the fear happens. It’s quite challenging though isn’t it!

I’m sorry to hear about your uncle and his struggles as a WWII veteran. My grandfather was a POW and also had to do some hideous things in close-range fighting with a German soldier to survive, much too graphic to describe here. My father had lifelong nightmares about this experience of his father. And bizarrely, even though I never met my grandfather who died before I was born, I’ve had lifelong involuntary images, especially when going to bed at night, of what seems to be the fight to death to survive with the soldier. The best explanation for this passing down of trauma seems to be in epigenetics. There’s a really interesting book from a guy named Mark Wolynn on this topic called It Didn’t Start With You. I’ve listened to a couple of interesting podcasts with him. We can actually end up with fragments of memory, feeling and thought that get passed down. But the really positive thing about epigenetics is these things can be healed. Unlike the genes themselves, the epigenetic material upon the genes is malleable throughout life. It’s a bit too hard to explain in depth here, but through safe, healing experiences the epigenetics can switch back and repair to a healthy state. This is a hugely growing area of research at the moment.

I was building an increasing sense of safety until it collapsed again on Monday last week. But I’m learning to both seek help when this happens from safe others and do the strategies that enable me to hide away for a bit while I recover. I think it’s a gradual, progressive thing. I find bringing the terror down takes time, hence why I’m sometimes out in nature for hours. But I’m realising this is what it takes for me. But playing my guitar, singing and doing photography also seem to calm my nervous system and shift the state I’m in. I think also it’s learning to give yourself a big hug of support, to know you can be there for yourself, if that makes sense.

[Croix]

Dear TonyWK~

When I was talking about overwhelming fear I was acknowledging it was an emotional reaction, and meant that logic did not cut the mustard. At the time it could not be stopped or explained away by pointing out this or that.

It needed emotion to combat it and I think you are right, that what works for each person may be different, and if recovery has not yet commenced then maybe one can only hope for partial success.

I offered a pathway that was completely in the mind, nothing physical at all. This does not mean physical things can't be effective, just it was another thing to try and did not depend on location, circumstance or time of day.

Sometimes it can be hard to enter a metal retreat, even if one has been there before, as one is too hyped up by fear and reaction. Then I use Smiling Mind, which brings one to a calmer state, more receptive and able to conjure up an effective mental scene

Cowardice is not a straightforward concept with many unkind overtones, but the most obvious thing is if one is faced with overwhelming force - be it a situation, a mental state or interacting with people, then not subjecting yourself to further injury is simply sensible.

I would suggest an incremental approach - small steps - and not think of things in terms of black and white, success or failure, but as a series of small wins or if all does not go well then opportunity for wins in the future

Thank you for you poetry, I particularly liked the phrase "no shield needed in wonderland"

Croix

[white knight]

Hi Croix

Re: "...and not think of things in terms of black and white",

Indeed. It's why my original therapist in 1987 said "There's 8 billion people in the world that are various shades of grey, so why are you so "black and white""?

The answer of course was that my upbringing was profoundly on the righteous side. It seemed all neighbours and extended family were less wise or less righteous. Add to that a personality that include a strive to get things done and do it yesterday...

Yes, I see what you mean now about (not physical).

TonyWK

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hi Eagle Ray and Croix and white knight, 

Wow, what an interesting discussion! I would like to join in... 

ER, I have complex trauma/PTSD too. Childhood trauma was just the beginning, followed by multiple traumas.... I have spent decades dealing with it in all sorts of different ways. It's a long journey, a lifelong journey I think. Some periods are easier than others. I really get that feeling of extreme fear of people. Fear of being triggered. Fear of being under attack. Fear of being hurt. And the desire to isolate and withdraw from people all together. But then comes the need for connection. Such an internal dilemma. Complex trauma is, well, complex, as the name implies. And such a conundrum. People are the cause of the trauma. But we are social creatures and we need people. I have learned along the way that people can also be the source of healing. Finding healthy connections that feel safe and nourishing is so healing. For me, I have a psychologist, a lovely GP, and a few close friends and family. At the moment I am just spending time with a very small handful of people that I know and trust. And only when I feel that I can manage it. 

I like the idea of shades of grey. It doesn't need to be all or nothing. For me at the moment, I am spending a lot of my time at home by myself, where it feels safe. But then I was feeling intense loneliness. So I adopted two cats. They are so adorable and healing and when I am at home now, it doesn't feel as empty and lonely. Animals are great for healing and regulating. I find that if I snuggle up close to them when they are purring and slowly pat them, it helps me to soothe and regulate. 

And, then I only do small amounts of interacting with people at a time. For example, I might go for a walk along the beach to a café and order a take-away coffee to drink as I am walking. So, there is a tiny bit of interaction ordering the coffee and just being around other people who are ordering. Then, I am walking by myself in nature, on the beach, which I love. But there are other people around, so it doesn't feel too isolated. Then I come home and regulate my nervous system if I have to, from being out in the world. Sometimes it might be playing soothing music, meditation, restorative yoga poses etc. Different things help on different days. ER, you mentioned nature as a source of healing. Me too!!! In bucketloads!!!!!  

I can relate to the intergenerational trauma too. My father was born in Belarus during WWII. He was a little boy growing up in war-torn Poland, Russia, Germany. My grandparents were trying to keep alive their two young children during the war. Then they lived in a refugee camp for a while before immigrating to Australia. I cannot begin to imagine the trauma that my grandparents and my father and aunty must have experienced. I can almost tangibly feel the trauma in my DNA. And, I can see that it has carried through to other members of my family, too. And on my mother's side, although she never talked about it, there must have been trauma too, my mother was so damaged. And that has carried through as well, in my DNA and also how I was raised. I feel like as I am healing my pain, I am also healing their pain...   

continued in the next post...

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hi again, 

Mmmmmmmm, what else...... there was so much I could resonate with, reading all your posts....

Ohhh yeah, the terror. And that feeling that nothing can bring it down! I experienced something similar recently about a month ago. I had a few things happen that triggered the panic/terror and it would not let up. It was above and beyond "anxiety" and I felt sheer terror and panic. I was in a constant state of hyperarousal. Constantly on alert, hypervigilant, jumpy, on edge, irritable and agitated, running on adrenalin, could not regulate, strategies I usually use were not working/helping. It was as if I was in a terrifying situation even though I knew rationally that I wasn't. I get the comment about logic not working in those states!! Nothing I could think or say was going to change the physiological state. I started struggling to sleep, nightmares got worse, exhaustion during the day. And then so hard to cope because of lack of sleep. It became a cycle and got worse and worse. To the point that I could not stand it and felt as if I could not bear another nightmare and I would rather die than continue like this. It's ok - I am NOT suicidal (now). So this is what I did: I called Lifeline. That was extremely helpful, to help me co-regulate with someone. I then booked in an appointment with a GP for the next day. Then I took one of my strong sleeping tablets and had a reasonable sleep. The next day I saw a GP, not my usual one, by this GP was very caring and understanding and we talked about what other supports I needed. I then contacted my psychologist and increased the regularity of my psychology sessions. Thankfully, my next psychiatrist appointment was the following week. So I was then able to get a new medication to help with sleep and reduce nightmares. It has helped so much. Being able to sleep has helped to break the cycle, and the terror has reduced to a more manageable "anxiety" level. I also had some acupuncture on the point in the ear that stimulates the vagus nerve - and that has helped to calm things down. Holy sh*! what a ride!!!! Anyway, thanks for allowing me to express all of that. It really feels unbearable at the time. 

Anyway, I look forward to reading further posts.... 

[divine_inner_goddess]

Hello Unicorn13579, 

I am so sorry I forgot to mention your name in my first post. I can relate to some of your story too. 

Firstly, I wanted to acknowledge the childhood trauma you mentioned. It's so scary to name it. And good on you for deciding to open up to your counsellor about it. It's a brave step. I am sending you loving kindness as you take that step. And wow, I never knew what AD was until I googled it just now. Again, sending you so much loving kindness. 

Also, I can relate to the intertwining of physical health and mental health. I get it, that medical stuff can make someone predisposed to mental un-wellness. And especially when it is a chronic condition like yours. And in my experience, it goes the other way too, mental un-wellness impacts physical health as well. I have struggled over the years with various health conditions, IBS, recurring colds and viruses and infections, endometriosis pain, to name a few. It's as if I am always 'sick' with something. But, I have learned over the years that it's the emotional 'stuff' that places my body under stress and makes me more prone to physical illness and chronic pain. And then being sick and in pain makes the emotional stuff worse. And around and around it goes....   

Finally, I really really LOVE your comment "hide away but don't do it alone, get help". I use a chat group with a handful of close family and friends. I post in there when I am struggling and I need support. It works well because usually one of them is available to call me or message. I also have a lovely team of professionals around me, a psychologist, GP, and a few others. I am realising more and more that it's my unique recovery journey, but it helps so much to be going through it with support wrapped around me. 

All the best and take care everyone, 

DIG (divine inner goddess)