Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

[white knight]

 In my case I never saw the treatment of me by my mother as being abused. No doubt in my mind the reason is- she would ty to convince me that her treatment of me is for discipline reasons or its how all parents bring up their children.

It wasn’t until I became an adult, around 21yo that I realised this level of control will never end.

My tolerance lasted till I was 54yo and then the relationship, well I terminated it. The last 6 years have been wonderful, there was no other way.

So if a child feels so aggrieved by his/her parent that there is no other option but to disown there must be something serious that has been ongoing for a long time. The problem is, that the parent is often in denial, for “I’m the parent” attitude often prevails in their mind if they are a controller. Might is right! No it isn’t parent- RIGHT IS RIGHT.!

Lets go back a few generations. Say 1900. This period might be your great grandfathers time as a toddler. My granddad was one year old then. Many parents had traditional methods of parenting. Physical slapping or forcing children to do things was the norm. Dad was the law and mum was his servant unless mum possessed some incredible ways of manipulation in order to get things done her way. And her safety wasn’t secure either in many cases. Now 116 years isn’t that long ago in generation periods. Just 3-4 generations. I’m mentioning this because if that old fashioned method of life behind close door was adopted by the tyrants child and the grandchild…you could well be the next child to be abused. The handing down of methods of bringing up a child hadn’t changed regardless of its unacceptability in the modern world.

However, as adults of the modern world with these forms of control becoming unacceptable we know it is wrong and we rebel.

I can recall when my kids were babies. We were told not to breast feed, what to feed them, that we weren’t good parents, that we should be living in a home of more quality standard, that I should work more hours and “get a better job”. These expectations were unsustainable. My tolerance was finite.

When this happens it is abuse. It’s at least “stepping over the line”. For your own mental health and stability begin to set your boundaries. Be clear, direct, consistent, firm, fair and allow some time for it all to sink in. Then if all fails don’t feel guilty. You did your best with a parent that didn’t want limits to their control. You were a puppet seen no other way.

Tony WK

[white knight]

Hi Blondeguy (Paul)

Thankyou, having a great easter as my 60th birthday party was today. 12 guests - jus the right number for a BBQ.

My dear sister 5 years my junior, came along. At the end of every main family event we pat each other on the back and heap self praise on each other that our little family is so happy and content without the drama form our mother.

We are realistic. When other say "she must have had some good qualities. "Yes, I say, she did, she nurtured us, cared for us as children....but the bad said, those narcissistic actions and words, the control, the lies...the denial, those are the things we cannot live with.

If there are any further questions of an intrusive type or worse, of the sort that seems a guilt trip, I reply- "I don't question your relationship with your mother, so please don't question mine." Sounds harsh? but I know the extent my mother will go to get to me by brainwashing others.

Today like our xmas's its stress free, any slight stress and we sort it like adults. And that's the thing, our mother cannot act like an adult but can a dictator that demands your subordination.

6 years ago she sent me two letters that I did not open and "return to sender" I knew their contents, heard it all before- "your father would turn in his grave for what you've done to me", "mmy doctor said it has been terrible how you've treated your mother", "nobody has ever has a worse son than you" and so on.

She owned us, like an extension of herself to take commands, act out hurt via others like a queen. Disobey her and you either did one of two things, be broken and beg for forgiveness or rebel and lose your father and other family members in your life. Swinging from the queen to the witch, waif to hermit she was a master.

Now at 83yo we don't know her whereabouts and that's how we like it. We don't know her well being and we don't care but we do know she I still working behind the scenes pressurising others to pressure my sister and I to feel guilty enough to contact her and seek forgiveness.

Return to her life and she regains her power.  It wont happen.

Sometimes tyrants can only be neutralised by an equal force.

I had a good birthday today because I was determined years ago to find happiness no matter the cost. It came, it remains and this happiness and stability is handed down to our children. The cycle has broken.

Tony WK

[pipsy]

Hey Paul.  I used to volunteer with meals on wheels in the kitchen.  The meals we did were fairly nutritious.  We did corned silverside with veggies, white sauce etc.  We also did mince, with veggies, there was soup plus desert.  The down side is: the meals were and still are costly.  The customers were given the choice of having their meals for lunch or night.  Is your dad suffering from dementia, this would explain his belief re: the Jews and their responsibility for his super situation.  Through my volunteer job working with the elderly, some of whom are in early dementia stages, I've learnt not to take on their confusion and basically leave them to their beliefs.  I know it's hard when it's your parents, but all you can do is try not to take it on.  Is your dad a returned vet: if he is, this would also explain his confused state regarding Jews, Germans, anyone classed as 'the enemy.  Try to remember him as he was, not the way he is now.  Dementia patients often can't distinguish now from yesterday, when life was simple.  They get confused, then impatient when we try to explain that things are different now.  A client I used to work with decided one day that he was going to post $400 to N.Z, in his confused state, he decided that all he had to do was withdraw $400 from the bank, get it made into a money order, put it in an envelope, mark it private and post it.  I couldn't get him to realise post offices don't do that now.  I tried to explain he needed the bank account number in N.Z, plus the recipient's name where he was sending the bank draft.  He openly turned on me, accused me of being negative and walked away.  Even when the bank tried to explain how they send money now, he refused to listen.  I was so 'burned out' from working with him, I asked the company to get me into other duties as I needed a break.  I'm still with the company, but I no longer work with him.  He was the same age as your dad.  He now has a full time carer who takes him out, because our company couldn't get anyone to work with him.  Like you I pity him, but I couldn't work with him any longer. 

You are a loving, caring person I would love to meet some day.

[blondguy]

Dear Tony WK and Pipsy

Tony...I am sorry about the slow response to your post. You are an inspiration to me and I thankyou....I just read one of your coping mechanisms and if I quote you please "Each step onto a stone represents you pondering on the problem, full focus, no distractions about other problems, they will come later. I have copied this into my 'coping folder' that I use frequently.

What you have done for the couple that lost two adult children...."I have sent her about 60 poems over that 10 years" ....They also framed them...That really touched me Tony I wish I had the poems to read however I do understand we are not set up here for this to eventuate.....like your daughter at school with her shoes and how you came to her aid...I will never forget that.

Pipsy...I hope my post on the 26th wasnt negative or awful to read about my dad. I actually wasnt expecting it to go through....Please forgive me if that was venting too much about my dad. It was the hardest and most recent posts I have placed on the forums and thankyou Chris for letting it through too.

Tony WK....Your thread is a gift and I thank you so much

Paul

[blondguy]

Hey Tony!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!! 60! Way to go!I was born in late '59! More in common 🙂

I think we just posted before at the same time! I just wanted to share a bit of what you wrote 5 minutes ago.....

"we do know she I still working behind the scenes pressurizing others to
pressure my sister and I to feel guilty enough to contact her and seek
forgiveness"

I have the same crafty father doing exactly the same as we speak with my sister....Unbelievable!

Have a great night.....and a Very Happy 60th Birthday

All the very Best for you Tony

Cheers 🙂

Paul

[Guest_5218]

Hi all the contributors to this thread.  I have been following it with much interest over the past week, horrified at how parents can treat their children so badly.   I am lucky, I had wonderful loving parents who, despite being very poor, gave me and my siblings everything they possibly could.   However, I am married to an abusive husband.  Anyway thats not why I am posting........

Tony - A very happy 60th birthday to you.  Sounds like you had a lovely BBQ today, which you so richly deserve.  No doubt little Miss Rosie has enjoyed the festivities and the undoubted attention as well?  ( - :

Paul, you and I share a year of birth - 1959.  A top year!  My birthday is before yours though, so I'm still older!

Wishing all of you the very best,

Sherie xx

[blondguy]

Hey Sherie

I am glad you have joined in and helped celebrate Tony's 60th Birthday!! And I wish I was at his BBQ...knowing Tony the food would be beautiful.

Dec 1959 Sherie....lol....:-)

I see you have Tony's thread and I am so happy that it has brought people together:-) I just mentioned above that its been the most difficult thread I have responded to....and believe me...the 'basement in Canada' and watching National Geographic with my father (my 2 main posts) did hurt a lot to type into this keyboard....but..necessary and thanks to Tony who provided the vehicle for me to do so....It can be a very hard thread to respond to and no one here would expect you do so Sherie.

After I did I felt like someone took so much weight off my shoulders. I am sorry though to hear about your abusive husband though Sherie....Like Pipsy...both of you havent deserved to be abused whether emotionally or physically. I hope Tony can cut me some slack here on moving off topic a bit.

PIPSY 🙂 I have read your posts over again....I still begin to fathom what you went through...Same as for Sherie above I have no input as I cant imagine being in your shoes, so to speak. Thankyou Pipsy for sharing your pain...My heart does hurt for you xx

I do hope anyone that is reading this thread benefits from it and if you wish to say hi and let us know about yourself you are very welcome

Enough from me.....lol...........Happy 60th TONY WK!!

[Guest_5218]

Yes I expect Tony's BBQ would be a real ripper.  And I think his Miss Rosie, my Holly and your Prince would be a very fine trio.  ( - :

Oh yeah, me - I'm a May 59er.  Star sign Gemini, but in reality more of a Taurus.  But I was born on the cusp.

Sorry getting off topic, and I dont want to get hauled over the hot coals again for that!

Paul, I can see understand why this topic has been so difficult for you to respond to.  But the fact that you felt as though there was a weight off your shoulders afterwards certainly indicates that its been a worthwhile exercise.

And correct, I'm not about to elaborate further on my own experience of narcissism here.  It isnt the right thread to do so for me.  There are others that would be more appropriate if, or when, I choose to discuss it.

I also follow a few of Pipsy's other threads regarding the same topic.  Its all very familiar to me unfortunately.

Sherie xx

[pipsy]

Hi Tony.  Don't know if I'm late with this, but all the best for a wonderful birthday.  Mine is at the end of the month, hoping it's just as happy as yours.  Hope you don't mind that I helped myself at the barby.  Paul, no your post re: your dad wasn't negative, it was honest, painful for you, remembering.  Thank you for sharing.  Thank you all for allowing me to share something that I've kept to myself about my own background.  None of it hurts anymore, because the past can't hurt.  The memories are painful, but, I keep reminding myself, memories can't hurt. 

[white knight]

Hi all,

Thankyou, my birthday went so well. My youngest daughter, mentioned here visited and she has finally seen the light with being brainwashed by her revengeful mother. We are on our way now.

BBQ went well. Vegie burgers were a hit. - One very large or two large zucchinis, tub of cheery tomatoes, cheese grated, 3 eggs, cup of breadcrumbs (soaks up the water of the zucchinis) and two cups grated carrots, salt and pepper,  and herbs. Use processor on carrots and zucchinis, mix all and roll into balls in more breadcrumbs, cook on the BBQ plate like a burger.

My poetry to my friend has always been filled with positive messages, sometimes hidden. I mean how hard is it to be positive about a tragedy of loss of life let alone loved ones.?

This is the poem read out at the park one year after that terrible day.

WEIGHING SCALE

Take a simple weighing scale, the type that has two sides

Use two flour bowls and make sure thy are wide

On one side place your grief, every sorrow and missing bit

Every tears from these last 12 months and make sure that they fit

 Then take the desires of your girls, don't think of when and how

Consider what their dreams would be for YOU if you could hear them NOW!

Place these wishes in the other bowl it will be a tighter fit

If so use a larger bowl to capture ever little bit

Watch as they balance and I'm sure that you'll see

Your girls desires will be heavier than all the grief you'll see

Of all your pain and hurt, of all your sadness too

You must focus on their wonder and their dreams they have for you

Of all your efforts for them, of the flowers and wonder park

What they would want is paramount...and that should be your heart..            .17/1/2007

I suppose the "White Knight" syndrome has to be kept in check. That being running to the aid of others excessively. Recently a thread from a members highlighted this syndrome with her work colleagues that continually helps others with all their problems then she starts to fall in a heap due to the strain. Balance, like the poem is essential. The poem illustrates though that a state of mind can be self manipulated to convince oneself of things. It might be unrealistic but if it helps us to survive ???

Sherie, too many (13) people at the BBQ for Miss Rosie. She stayed indoors and barks at them as they arrived. But she got a lot of love later.

Paul, I'm thrilled at the benefits you have got from this thread.

Tony WK

[white knight]

Hi again,

So when can we "throw the bag of hurtful memories ...in that river"?

Every stepping stone to recovery (for want of a better word) is an important step no less important than the last or the next. Over the years, time, seems the most effective tool in terms of it being reliable. Time can allow for the issues that keep simmering to drift away. Most likely but not in all cases. In some cases some people have to revisit the trauma more and more to gain clarity (answers) keeping searching for that magic phrase that is heard like a magic remedy. And it can lead to breakdown.

I have to admit, I jump onto phrases from others that seem to answer my questions. eg "you know Tony your mum hasn't ever made things easy for anyone in her life...not only you". This comment I received made sense, that my sister and I were never alone in our battles with her. Such comments that make an impact of clear logic allows me to step onto the next stepping stone. But I'd like to mention here that part of me always wonders whether I'm fooling myself, self convincing, a bandaid of healing, that isn't real. But I know that the mind doesn't have full clear clarity in my case, that there is no actual physical indicator of awareness you are over that trauma piece. You need to accept this as part of the healing process, to have faith that you've done your best. Being stuck on a rock too long isn't healthy.

I've been thinking about Paul's trauma with his father. The excessive physical punishment (abuse) and the delay in issuing it that would have caused so much anxiety and other issues. Fear being the common factor for children with male or female narcissists.

Fear, what a difficult thing to conquer. Maybe we should take that "weighing scale" approach to this?

Recovery scales

 Place all your fears on the one side, your hurt and pain...dig deeper still and fill that bowl again

then place all your gifts of love that you write here in your words, those treasured words of voluntary love the strongest in the world.

You'll see the scales will tip in favour of your care....then you focus on the other bowl abuse you're well aware.

You replace those poor memories with determination and grace

And you leave your anger behind ...to be in a better place

And as you walk the walk to help others overcome your pain

You realise you aren't your dad....you'll never be the same....

Tony WK