Pretty in Pink?

[Donte]

Been watching the gifts children get for xmas and how they often perpetuate gender stereotypes. Boys often get trucks, tools, guns, robots etc while girls receive magical fairies, ballerina costumes, imitations of cooking equipment, dolls etc. Often wondered if this is subconscious or directed. How does it work in your culture? What types of messages did you get as a boy or girl growing up in your part of the world? I remember as a teacher one day the principal came to our class and said: ‘Can I borrow four strong boys to help me carry a bookshelf?’...What type of message does this gives to the girls in the room? How about the weak boys? Aren’t there strong girls around? Stronger than the average boy? How do stereotypes like these affect our mental health? What message do we give to our girls when every fairytale is about a princess waiting to be rescued and saved by the prince who will come in and take her away and she’ll be his forever? What are we preparing our boys and girls for? What messages does religion give? Culture? Society? Art? Chen’s? Songs? Why are we still preparing our boys for war and our girls for marriage and child bearing? How does this gender inequality affect our view of the world? Our part in it? What kind of harmful notions did you had to overcome in order to start your recovery process? ‘Boys don’t cry’, I hear you saying! Or ‘Boys will be boys’. Or ‘She’s daddy’s girl!’... What do all these mean in the context of your culture and attitudes that could perpetuate mental illness, domestic violence, submissive or aggressive behaviors, rape etc? Let’s put some thought into the small things and perhaps initiate some change to foster a healthier interaction and relationships.

[Lolita1]

Hi all,

This topic brought back many memories from childhood, as a child i was never given gender specific toys, it was basically musical instruments such as guitar, maracas, flutes etc. the funny thing is that although I love dancing I am actually not musical at all.

I do remember that as a young teenager my mum used to always buy me dresses and I loved wearing jeans/shorts/pants, and this constant battle that my mum and I had about not being feminine enough still haunts me and it did question my self esteem /image and I used to feel not very pretty. I did promise myself that if I ever had a girl I would never do this to her - I don't - but my mum says to my daughter how much prettier she would look if she wore a dress, i tell my daughter that she looks beautiful even if she chose to wear a potato sack. but this goes back to our home country because if you look pretty are well dress,wear makeup you get treated much better. people there get change and put on makeup to go supermarket shopping.

cheers

[Donte]

Thanks Tony for your input. I arrived in Melbourne in the mid 80s but what you describe is a story I hear from many older migrants who migrated in the 50s. Interesting to hear about the realities growing up in Tasmania too! I think that even though today the setting is very diverse there are common threads experienced by all no matter what era we migrated. It’s part of the integration process. We all learn from each other individually and collectively, locally as well as globally. Still long way to go but definitely on the right direction I believe. 🙂

[Donte]

Thank you Sez,

Your contribution and feedback is very valuable. I agree. I’d like to know how your experience has contributed to your mental health struggle if you’d like to elaborate. I think it would be beneficial for many of us. (Only if you feel comfortable doing so). 🙂

[Elizabeth CP]

I wonder what the statement 'pretty in pink' means for boys. Perhaps Úgly in blue' Obviously I don't think that but I wonder how males see it particularly as their role is no longer so clear. In the past males were the protectors & breadwinners. Now women can get pregnant through IVF so even fatherhood is no longer a necessary role. I wonder how often that lack of a clear role in life impacts on men's mental health. Culture plays a huge part in this because if you have been brought up to think you need to behave in one way & then come to Australia &find that is not acceptable it is hard.

Religeous culture has an impact. For example people in my religion expect you to observe traditional roles with the husband as the bread winner & the wife looking after the children & house. I followed this because I believed it was right. The problems occur when society sees things differently. For example there is a message from politicians & others claiming that if you are not working & paying taxes you are a burden on society. This left me feeling isolated & torn between the two sets of expectations. The other even bigger issue was when the situation changed and my husband & I were no longer able to fulfil our normal roles. Years ago my husband was unemployed for several years. This is hard enough for anyone but when you believe that is an essential role it is harder. I went back to work but felt torn by the conflicting expectations. I felt I had to justify what I was doing to my family members to stop them seeing me as being rebellious. It didn't matter that they said nothing the feeling of being judged was there. Now my husband is disabled & we relied on my income until I went on a carers pension. Feeling a lesser person because he can no longer work & support me is a reality for my husband.

My son has a MI. The expectation that his wife has that he earn enough money for them (while she spends it excessively) has lead to a lot of stress for him as he can't earn enough to meet her expectations. This has led to serious bouts of depression, psych admissions, & loss of employment casing further downward spiral.

My point is this issue is more complex & has major ramifications than just what toys children play with & treating everyone equally particularlly in such a diverse society as ours. What do others think?

[Just Sara]

Hi again Donte';

Thanks for your interest and questions.

Elizabeth touched on how culture impacted my MH; as did Lolita and Pepper. Traditional gender roles within families and communities have interested me for a long time. When young I adopted an independent (70's) streak; travelled, sowed my wild oats, married/divorced, had my son, studied and worked in the helping professions thru it all.

Decades down the track, I'm feeling a sense of loss; a gap.

I remember visiting a (Sicilian) friends house one Sunday in my teens where the family gathered for lunch each week. The home-made chunky wooden table was long enough to fit a dozen or more people. The room echoed with clanging plates, laughter and men arguing over homeland topics while Mamma doted over her sons, grand-kids and food.

Children were integral in the goings on and parents dealt with them while continuing their input at the table. It was chaotic yet absolutely joyful.

When my MH hit the skids, I wanted to reach out to loved ones for help and reassurance, but I didn't. I withdrew and went thru the worst of it alone; true to my independent trait. I'm still alone and wishing for a replica of that Sicilian family from long ago.

I read stat's and comments about women who chose either career over domestic duties, or vice-versa. Both groups felt unfulfilled. I had to do it all on my own! Nobody commented on us single parents.

Single parenthood may be an acceptable norm in our culture, but expecting us to be both mum and dad without a close family network to help out, life takes its toll...and did.

What I would give to have a career and man to come home to, or support a man who comes home to me, is insurmountable. A Yin and Yang home environment in all its glory whether it's one way or the other. No man or woman is an island.

I have no doubt some men also suffer alone in silence. What has western society created?! It might be good to hear from male members on this topic.

Sez

[Just Sara]

*Addit: I only talked about traditional male/female relationships in my post, but same-sex and 'other' family units are just as important. Sez

[white knight]

Hi all,

Great topic here. My parents had the traditional roles, mum at home when we grew up, dad working. Even though this evolved my first wife and I married in 1985 and we sort two things, a country life and the same dad, mum roles.

So we had two children however, living in the country posed issues of commuting to work. High running costs and not being able to save for a new car saw a second job then a third. This was just to pay a mortgage and allow my then wife to stay at home. Such was the property prices. In fact it was harder in the 90's IMO to do that than the 60's. In the 60's many men walked to local workplaces, in the 90's and beyond, a car was essential.

So, for other reasons my marriage folded. In the 90's shared care for children was barely existing. It was commonplace to leave the kids with their mother. This situation was tough on the kids and I made sure I continually promised my girls that I would always pick them up fortnightly. I can tell you that my heart was ripped out leaving my kids, but there was no choice as I was emotionally abused for 11 years and attempted suicide. one week before I left. At rock bottom I decided that better to be a part time dad than no dad at all. My eldest got married this year and I walked her down the aisle, who would have if I wasn't there?

Every generation improves in vital areas. The pink dress scenario and insisting not wearing jeans can be corrected by a modern mother that suffered as a result. It's almost like fear that their daughter wont grow up straight? My parents virtually pushed my sister into marriage at 18yo because they had fear she would fall pregnant...heaven...what horror, what will the neighbours think?

Being a baby boomer has left me with some inground discomfort though when I see young adults dress the same. I know this shouldn't be but I cant shake what was 1/ instilled in me and 2/ I like girls in the feminine dress, pony tails, makeup. They are always more attractive to me. However, if that is not what a girl likes to do then I value peoples rights. Just saying what I like and I know a lot of men the same.

Now we have an economic situation whereby both parents work full time and are still poor in some ways.

I'm a little unusual , maybe not Sez, but I would have done anything to be a stay at home dad..I hope that gives a perspective for you from this guy anyway.

Tony WK

[Donte]

Hi Peper,

Thank you for your response. Yes, choices are a human right. It is all about choices. Not everyone shares this belief of course or encourages the freedom of choice and especially in collectivist cultures where tribal mentalities prevail. In many groups the choices are made by the group or the leaders of the group. If the individual's choice is different to that of the group then the group's decision prevails, thus, the individual gets discriminated, marginalized and often cut off or persecuted. There is always diversity within diversity and luckily as people get more educated and learn to think for themselves they tend to break away from oppressive molds. The more affluent and independent people become, the more they rely less on each other as their needs are met in different ways. 'Community' is not the same for a post-War migrant to a generation Y person or an aboriginal for example. In regards to mental health, we know that cultural or religious oppression can bring a lot of suffering upon people, even if it provides relief, guidance and support to others in that group. Inter-generational ideas also play a big role. Baby-boomers in general, for example, may react and respond differently to mental illness to the way generation X or generation Y. Many older people may listen to their doctor and never question that authority. Younger groups may do some research themselves or get another opinion before they choose a course of action. While most Gen Y may know exactly what they want and go to services asking specifically for something after they have made their decision. As people integrate into the Australian way of life, as groups move away (geographically) due to financial reasons and spread out with new housing etc and mingle with other people outside of their group, as the second and third generations of migrant children receive tertiary education and become professionals, doctors, lawyers etc and engage in relationships of all types, including with people of other cultures, religions, or same sex etc., attitudes inevitably change. You are a prime example of this integration and progress. It should always be about choice. Hopefully, in today's society, as the pressure from culture, religion, family etc. eases and as people's choices become more accepted, respected, encouraged and protected by law they will be less limited and controlled by others. This may ease the hopelessness, despair, anxiety, fear, depression and mental distress for many.

[Donte]

Thanks Lolita01!

It's amazing the impact on one's life of those cultural notions, traditions and expectations, even years, decades later. It can truly haunt us and affect us for the rest of our lives, shape our views, influence our thinking and dictate our behaviour. For many people it may take years, if ever, to challenge these imposed values and indoctrination. We could get to mid-life before starting to dissecting all these and see truly how they have affected our mental health causing havoc in our lives and our relationships. I try to make a conscious effort to not compliment my child's appearance but rather look through all that to the inner qualities and abilities she has and comment on these. Resilience building and positive self-image is an internal quality I believe. 🙂

[Donte]

That's such a lovely picture you painted in my mind with that Sicilian family Sara,

Thank you. I could almost feel I was there, smelling the food and hearing the laughter. I grew up in a Greek family in Athens. I have only one brother, five years younger. We are not close. When I was in primary school he was a newborn. Went to high-school, he started primary. Was at Uni, he was in high-school. Got married and had my child, he was partying and living a wild life. Then I divorced, he got married. My daughter is 22. He has no kids...I guess we were never on the same page. I don't have images like the one you described to remember from my childhood and neither does my daughter who's an only child raised by a single dad with no extended family here in Australia. On the other hand, I know of Anglo-Australian families with long tables and big families who get together regularly and experience what you described. I agree with you that beyond cultural or linguistic background, humans crave to be connected, to have a sense of belonging, a group with common interests and what we call 'community' and fellowship with each other. The absence of that may create isolation and contribute to mental illness. But connection can happen in many ways and forms and engagement can be positive through other means today, social media for example, or forums like this one. In a world where families shrink in numbers more and more, economics, career, and other factors dictate where we live, how we live etc, I guess many fulfill this need for connection and belonging in different ways through technology etc. As long as it works for the individual, then I believe it is beneficial. We can only do whatever we can with the resources we are given.