Pretty in Pink?

[Donte]

Been watching the gifts children get for xmas and how they often perpetuate gender stereotypes. Boys often get trucks, tools, guns, robots etc while girls receive magical fairies, ballerina costumes, imitations of cooking equipment, dolls etc. Often wondered if this is subconscious or directed. How does it work in your culture? What types of messages did you get as a boy or girl growing up in your part of the world? I remember as a teacher one day the principal came to our class and said: ‘Can I borrow four strong boys to help me carry a bookshelf?’...What type of message does this gives to the girls in the room? How about the weak boys? Aren’t there strong girls around? Stronger than the average boy? How do stereotypes like these affect our mental health? What message do we give to our girls when every fairytale is about a princess waiting to be rescued and saved by the prince who will come in and take her away and she’ll be his forever? What are we preparing our boys and girls for? What messages does religion give? Culture? Society? Art? Chen’s? Songs? Why are we still preparing our boys for war and our girls for marriage and child bearing? How does this gender inequality affect our view of the world? Our part in it? What kind of harmful notions did you had to overcome in order to start your recovery process? ‘Boys don’t cry’, I hear you saying! Or ‘Boys will be boys’. Or ‘She’s daddy’s girl!’... What do all these mean in the context of your culture and attitudes that could perpetuate mental illness, domestic violence, submissive or aggressive behaviors, rape etc? Let’s put some thought into the small things and perhaps initiate some change to foster a healthier interaction and relationships.

[white knight]

Hi Donte

This subject is very subjective and potential of conflict. I will answer it though from my viewpoint.

Equality has its limits. The guy wanting "4 strong boys would not have risked furniture falling on someones toes. The physically weaker boys might be academically smarter. If the school needed 4 students to attend a inter school quiz they would be chosen! Why not a stronger less clever boy? The answer is obvious.

The military has for a few decades had woman men equality even on the battlefield.

For tens of thousands of years men had a role of hunter and protector. The fact is overall he was better at it than his female partner. His partner better at caring and nurturing considering she had breast milk and someone had to cook while he patrolled looking for aggressors.

Now, suddenly aftyer all that time of a successful combination within 40 years we humans have our roles altered. Some of that alteration is good. SSM, equal job opportunities, stay at home dads etc. But some not so good because the degree that equality goes to isnt wise imo.

The best roles for males and females to have is one whereby they both work as a team to get through life together. That cooperation has been proven to work since Adam was a boy. Now its being splintered with political correctness to an extent that we are confused who we are, what role we have and feel guilty all the time.

My daughters liked dressing up as fairies and whispering soft words to each other. They left my Tonka truck I had as a boy, in the cupboard. They liked being soft little people nurturing their dolls.

They left the Tonka truck there for their visiting male cousins.

Thats not unnatural. But I still left the Tonka Truck there in case they had a desire to grow up to work in the mines as a driver of a 200 ton tipper.

They had choices. Generally however, there are reasons for some traditional roles. Imo

Tony WK

[Elizabeth CP]

I agree with Tony, Political correctness has gone too far. We need equal respect regardless of gender or race but we are not all the same. In general men are stronger whereas typically women are more nurturing. There are exceptions but in general this is the case. We are meant to work as a team with each member contributing. When we expect everyone to be the same we lose skills & expertise. My husband has a disability so I now have to do the heavy work he previously did. I miss the opportunity to rely on him to do the jobs I found really hard because of my lack of strength. I was brought up in a traditional home with my dad working & doing the garden & home renovation while mum did the housework & childcare. At the same time both parents clearly respected each other & assisted the other spouse in their roles. As children we were encouraged to chose our own path.

I have noticed that some cultures treat people very differently according to their gender which can be problematic. For example daughter is reluctant to have a daughter because in her husband's culture girls are overprotected and she has seen the negative impact this has had on her SIL.

[Sophie_M]

Thanks whiteknight and Elizabeth CP for your posts on this topic.

As this thread is in the Multicultural Experiences section, we're particularly interested in having discussions on how culture can impact on mental health.  

To keep this discussion on track, it'd be great to hear more from members born overseas, the children of parents born overseas, have a language other than English as your primary language, or come from a family with mixed cultural heritage to hear your thoughts on the questions posed in Donte's original post.

[Donte]

Hello Whiteknight,

Thank you for your valuable insight and input. I agree with you. Gender stereotypes are very subjective and potentially can lead to conflict and affect the mental state of people and that’s why it’s good to raise this topic. Equity is more important than equality. Equality treats everyone the same whereas equity tries to address individual needs by eliminating barriers and addressing inclusiveness through the provision of appropriate supports. Choices and person-Centre approach is needed instead of generalizations and stereotypes as one size never fits all. Not one man or one woman is the same. Not one person from the same culture or religion is the same. It’s important to look at the individual and their needs within the cultural context they operate when trying to address their universal needs eg how their mental health (universal issue), impacts on their quality of life and what notions or attitudes (cultural) hinder or assist their recovery (individual). Great point also about how gender roles evolved through time. I also have raised a daughter who loved her ballerina dresses and still adores pink as an adult. My post isn’t about political correctness but rather about how gender stereotypes and expectations /traditional roles affect our mental health within specific cultural groups and religious settings. I am interested to explore with others from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds what types of messages did they get growing up in their country of origin or here in Australia from migrant parents, and how has this affected their lives, relationships and mental health later in life. How does this gender inequality affects our view of the world and what kind of harmful notions did we had to overcome in order to start our recovery process. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned ‘choices’. It should always be about choice. Unfortunately, many don’t have choices as a result of their peer pressure, culture, religion, family etc. Or their choices are very limited and controlled by others. This often causes hopelessness, despair, anxiety, fear, depression and mental distress. This is precisely what I’d like us to address in this thread. 🙂

[Donte]

Thank you Elizabeth,

Good points indeed! It’s true that in certain cultures and groups it’s more evident that people are treated very differently according to their gender which can be problematic. We also see this exclusion in sports, religion, work, education etc. It can contribute to low self-esteem, negative self-image, feelings of worthlessness, inability to make decisions and a problematic mental health overall. These notions need to be challenged and addressed no matter how long they’ve been the norm. This thread was not about political correctness of course and neither about equality or the physical strength of males and females, so I’d be very interested to hear other people’s views about the way they were brought up and how this may have affected their mental health and possible barriers to accessing supports due to cultural notions and religious beliefs. 🙂

[Donte]

Hi Sophie,

Good point.That was the intention of the thread. Would be interesting to explore cultural notions that have affected us mentally or supported us in our journey of recovery. 🙂

[white knight]

Hi Donte, great thread concept

I was raised in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne. My parents came from Tasmania. We arrived in Melbourne as my brother was ill and needed the Childrens Hospital. I was a fifth and sixth generation Australian so I was the only student in my High school that didn't have migrant parents. So I learned a lot about cultural differences. Indeed I was an island because those from say Germany found fellow Germans to mix with and talk their language etc.

I had migrant friends and visited their homes. Their male and female roles were vastly different to mine. Women were more suppressed i.e. under the control of the husband. Even brothers dominated sisters. Daughters were in some cases treated less as an offspring because she would end up without the male surname meaning they would marry "into" another family. Women were also more likely to work in employment often factories. My mother was a stay at home one.

In Tasmania (I visited annually in xmas holidays to work on a dairy farm) their was also true to a lesser extent the son/daughter discrimination. But the English/Welsh traditions sent over with the ships of the early 19th century carried with them such discrimination. The settlers wanted sons to work the land. Daughters married into their husbands life and farm. I don't know if this was frequent on the mainland though. I'd guess so. but by the 1980's this tradition was becoming less obvious. The problems continued mainly through daughters contesting wills made by their parents that still held the old fashioned view of leaving all to the son. Such was the generation of people born around 1900 or earlier. So you can see that the sexual revolution and "burn the bra" period had a dramatic and argueably improvement on our world.

This inequality was worse among European families in my view.

That's my observations from a boys perspective.

Tony WK

[Just Sara]

Hi Donte' and others reading/posting;

Getting back to what you bought up originally; toys were once considered 'training tools' for adult roles. Girls got baby dolls and prams, and boys received building blocks or wooden swords. (For example only)

These toys usually replicated familial community/career paths of fathers passing down skills to sons, and mothers passing down nurturing/domestic skills to daughters; depending on cultural dictates and/or class/status.

Even books were aimed at 'life' and how to overcome obstacles until they began focusing on trends that created wealth instead of 'morals' or positive progress. Though some might argue Jane Austin, the Bronte' sisters, Emily Dickinson or Virginia Woolf for instance paved the way for the feminist movement in many cultures.

I haven't researched the subject so please allow for my layman's perspective and personal views.

Personally, I would've liked to be bought up in a family where continuity of culture and historical gender 'roles' were promoted. Instead, I was taught to be an individual first and foremost. There was a type of segregation that followed. Society said; "You can be anything you want to be" Too many choices, not enough guidance.

*Just a note: Personally, I believe this dislocation of familial 'togetherness' has contributed to my MH issues by lessening support systems and promoting isolation.

In many cultures, grandparents are looked after and gratefully accepted as respected 'elders' for being wise and experienced. Western culture doesn't seem to appreciate our ageing population this way.

What gift did I give my son this Xmas? A gift certificate from a shop that sells tools of his trade. He didn't follow in the footsteps of his Sinhalese father, or me either. He chose his own path for good or bad; it's the way society has evolved.

Great topic Donte'!

Sez

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Donte’ and all,

I was born in Australia but my parents were not born in Australia; I come from mixed descent and my heritage is part-Asian.

Perhaps I’ll try to to focus on this:

How does this gender inequality affects our view of the world and what kind of harmful notions did we had to overcome in order to start our recovery process.

I am female. As a child, I received dolls and prams while some of my male cousins received cars. I personally agree with you when one gives children stereotypically gender associated presents, there is an attached message about gender roles. For most of my childhood and pre-teen years, I just assumed that I would get married and have children because that’s “what girls do.”

But then something happened when I was in my early teens, I had an epiphany where I thought, “hold on a sec, do I actually want kids? Is this what I truly want?”

And then it dawned on me. “No.”

Just to be clear, I’m not trying to disparage parenthood; I have a great respect for parenthood but I’m saying it just isn’t my path.

I started to feel increasingly suffocated. When parenthood, especially motherhood, is often held in great esteem and seen as the “ultimate” that many reach in life in many cultures (including the multiple cultures that I come from), where does that leave people like me?

Am I less “female” because I’m making a conscious decision to not have children?

I wonder why my reproductive rights are constantly up for discussion amongst family?

I thought they were (are) my ovaries and therefore my decision to have or not have kids (without being badgered by various relatives)?

I’m trying to illustrate my point rather than expecting answers...

In terms of the toll on my mental health, I feel like an outcast. Relatives write me off as “selfish”, “immature”, etc because I have chosen not to pursue the expected path.

I feel nothing that I ever do will be “good enough” in their eyes purely because I don’t want children

So yes, I personally agree with your statement:

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned ‘choices’. It should always be about choice. Unfortunately, many don’t have choices as a result of their peer pressure, culture, religion, family etc. Or their choices are very limited and controlled by others. This often causes hopelessness, despair, anxiety, fear, depression and mental distress. This is precisely what I’d like us to address in this thread

Thanks for listening. I am thankful for this thread 🙂

Pepper xoxo