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Counselling and Group Sessions
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Hi,
I am attending “group sessions” for depression as an outpatient. And have done so as an inpatient.
I’d like to ask what people’s opinions are about there being “no wrong answers” in a group session.
To me this is very strange... Of course there are wrong answers. Just like there are wrong things said here in response other people’s questions. I’m not saying it happens often, or that it happens intentionally. I would just like to feel that my opinion matters enough to be treated truthfully. I don’t mind being wrong. I mind not knowing if what I have said, or think, is wrong.
David
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Hi David, welcome
I think your information is not enough to give a response. Please reply with more detail and maybe an example or two.
TonyWK
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Hi Tony,
when in group, the psychologist commonly asks a question, like “what are benefits of eating healthy food”, and appends “there are no wrong answers”, when clearly there can be. They just try to mollify us and get us to participate.
And this happens with every question.
I don’t want to be handled with kid gloves, I want to be told the truth. And think that we deserve to be told we are wrong (in a nice way of course) if we are. The world doesn’t wear rose tinted glasses, you don’t get a prize for just turning up. Life is hard, and I think it is non-beneficial to be treated otherwise.
David.
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Thanks David, understood now.
I think you have to consider the nature of group sessions. That nature is to not allow embarrassment of ill feeling from participants of the group. Remember, you are talking about groups that have many various illnesses or problems and it is very easy to upset these people and that would breach the purpose.
Way back in 1987 at 31yo I had a major stressful event and was left traumatized. The issue was- I was a dog ranger and my trust/dignity was compromised by mini corruption eg favorizing a politician so he didn't have to pay any infringements. I objected so much that I had a huge panic attack etc etc. During subsequent therapy I was told that I was "too black and white when I'm living in a world of 8 billion grey thinking people". I had to change- firstly to get out of any profession where law enforcement was its core. Second to accept that I needed to be more tolerant of personalities and third to be more realistic with my thoughts.
More realistic meant I had drifting unreal ideas and thoughts. Like expecting my boss to knock on my door and demand I return to work etc.
So back to groups. I think you might need to think more about the reasons behind the way things work in general and see things from others viewpoints which isn't easy. One way to overcome this is to ask why at the end of the session. Or have faith that there is likely a reason that isn't broadcasted.
And David, please don't forget that if you have an opinion and you voice that opinion, then you deserve that the group rules also benefit you in that others cannot criticize you for those opinions- so there is a positive.
It does seem that group sessions might not be for you. I went to one once only. I did benefit. I learned about emotional blackmail a relative was using against me. I benefitted. I then left. I was not suited.
I hope I helped.
TonyWK
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Hi David
As TonyWK mentioned group therapy/counseling works for some and not others...depending on what is being discussed by the counselor of course
Just for myself I have found face to face counseling really helpful with my acute anxiety.....yet there were times when the questions were really tough and confronting....as recovery from any problem takes frequent visits and having the determination to heal
The group counseling sessions can sometimes be a lot more gentle than a face to face. Once we have let our guard down and are brutally honest we will experience greater peace of mind.
Can I ask if you would feel more comfortable with face to face counseling on an individual basis? (if available?)
my best
Paul
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Hi Tony,
I understand what you are saying, and agree with you up to a point. I have to disagree with you on something, that’s just who I am. So I choose the B&W concept. The world through my eyes generally is B&W. Yes or no. True or false. You are either speeding or you are not. You like the meal or not. You can’t chose to eat the steak and leave the veggies, it just isn’t done.
I do agree that the group sessions (when an inpatient) have to be fluffy. People are close to the edge or they wouldn’t be there. But as an outpatient, I feel that you have to be able to talk about details, otherwise you won’t get satisfactory answers. In the outpatient groups, we are strongly urged to have an external psychologist to talk to about the answers we receive, to make sure we understand what is going on. But we still get the “no wrong answer” line.
I often reply that I did the last weeks homework and got an A, as there were no wrong answers. I don’t stress about group, because no one will criticise you. I get disheartened, but keep going back, as that is what you are supposed to do. I always challenge “why” we do an activity, and “why” should we expect the world to accomodate the proposed results. I’m the guy you don’t want in your session if you don’t know what you are talking about.
I do learn a lot, about why I am the way I am, and why I do the things I do... but not so much on what I need to do to be a better person. We focus on stopping all our bad behaviours, and not on extending what we do well.
Each schema we study is a bad schema. My three main ones are social isolation, emotional deprivation, and pessimism/negativity. (I don’t agree with the last one) Each trait (and that is pronounced tray) is a bad trait.
The three items you mentioned were “stopping the bad”, not “focusing on the good”.
I got a bit sidetracked there, I’m a bit flakey at the moment.
But... Were you told that expecting your boss to knock on your door demanding a return to work was wrong, or did they say that it wasn’t a likely outcome? I would prefer the first because it gave me a B&W answer, not a fluffy grey one. I think I am entitled to that much.
David
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Hi David Nobody,
I agree that a lot of these 'no wrong answers' are thrown out to encourage engagement. The more engaged participants are in conversations the more likely they are to do the group activities. If the facilitator is only looking for correct answers, less hands go up and less people pitch in.
I'd hope that with your group example about benefits of eating food, the psychologist/facilitator would then let you all know the right answers? I think it's a balance between engagement and sharing the right information. They would be doing a disservice to you otherwise.
It sounds like maybe the group dynamic isn't for you personally; I see so much benefit in asking why, however if they aren't responding to that or encouraging that I'm not sure how effective the group can be. Having said that though, if they are allowing and encouraging those questions it would be more helpful.
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Hi Romantic,
yes they allow, and enjoy (that’s the wrong word, maybe appreciate) my contribution and questions. I have been told “It keeps them honest”.
It also gives them great satisfaction when I eventually learn something.
They know that I will speak my mind, without holding back (or considering people’s feelings). The fact that I do consider people’s feelings (usually now) is a great testament to their experience and knowledge. I trust them, I listen to them, and I most importantly respect them. I tease them about the “no wrong answers” now, but it didn’t start that way.
And if they read this, they would be so proud.
David.
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Hi David, thanks for this ongoing thread, it is interesting for me to.
This B&W thinking is exactly what I had some 30-40 years ago. But I challenge it now as it isn't easy surviving in this life with that clear cut ideal.
Example- "you are either speeding or you are not". So if you are a policeman and you see a car doing 130kph in a 100 kph zone, you put him over. He deserves a ticket yes?. But when you approach him and ask him why he was speeding he tells yo that the guy beside him has a knife and he is going to hurt me if he didn't speed. So you arrest the knife holder and...do you still issue a ticket to the driver? After all, he did break the law!
You are a dog ranger and a dog is wandering the street. You catch the dog and trace his ID to an address. You knock on the door and the owner opens the door to be grateful you caught his dog. Then you begin to issue a ticket....well no you don't, the procedure is to ask him why his dog is wandering at large. The reason is- that a/ if the matter went to a magistrate the magistrate can judge with the owner should be fined b/ there could be a reasonable cause for the dog to be at large. So he tells you that he has spent a fortune on fencing but a child entered his property while he was at work to retrieve a football from being kicked over the fence and the child left the gate open. The law says he is responsible to confine his dog, the reasonable action is to acknowledge he made every attempt to confine his dog. What would be the point in issuing a fine if a magistrate is likely to squash the conviction and find the owner acted reasonably?
Re: "You like the meal or not. You can’t chose to eat the steak and leave the veggies, it just isn’t done." well yes it is done. Of the 9 billion people on this planet you have 9 billion different taste buds, none are the same. And yes, my ex wife would eat the steak and not eat the vegies!!
I see clearly where you are with this as it is like how I was.
When I was off work with stress/anxiety and I told my therapist about my fear my boss will knock on my door, such fears were unrealistic and my therapist said "do you think that possibility is realistic? I had to answer "no". He said "so why are you thinking it". My answer was "because I'm worried".
Beyondblue topic Worry worry worry
In that thread I suggest that worry is non productive. I had to learn to be realistic in my thinking as my mind was running too fast with possibles that never eventuated.
TonyWK
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Hi Tony,
The B&W thinking is an “attribute” of autism. I can’t change it. I can only prepare for and deal with it, and then try to mitigate any fallout.
I “work with computers” (quite well) as they are 1s and 0s... perfect. My thinking is also binary... Speeding/Not speeding... but once you pass that gate you enter the Reason/No reason gate... Then on to Valid Reason/Not Valid Reason... continue like this until Issue Ticket/No Ticket. On the way you would have spawned a new “Arrest Knife wielder?” process.
Same process with the Dog example. Same process for everything. You keep asking the next question in the flow until you either reach a resolution, or it needs to be passed on to the next “process” outside your jurisdiction. Where there are rules, there is a process to follow.
My whole life can be documented with a flow chart. That is just how I see it. Same as a when I was a Business Analyst. That is why autistic people make such good “Computer People”.
The “steak” example was an attempt at humour. But I would have been in the “you must not waste food” process, that is why it just isn’t done. There would have been “do you like this food?” and “is the food healthy?”, and thousands of other questions I have to deal with just to eat a nice juicy steak at Hogs Breath. Don’t get me started on the “food ordering process”.
I don’t suffer so much from anxiety as I prepare in advance, and am always early etc. I do the ABCD concept you detail in the Worry thread. This is just following the process your doctor prescribed. I always used to have a to-do list ordered by importance. My “In Box” was always empty as the tasks were categorised up the wazoo immediately.
I only worry about what isn’t in my control, which I know I shouldn’t, because it isn’t in my control. Go figure...
I suffer from depression because I can’t change the past, I can’t forget the past, and I can’t deal with that. The fact that I know this doesn’t seem to help.
David.