Survivor...

[Jaster]

Firstly, I am not having any of these thoughts and am safe. Sat in my small office, smiling at those passing me by and deep down I feel absolutely awful. Not sure how I made it to work, I'm here and guess a small win I suppose.

I am trying to be very careful here as I know this is such a delicate topic. I will do my best.

I have titled this post 'Survivor' and have mixed feelings and a little imposter syndrome. I have written not one but two goodbye letters. If any of you reading this have been there and survived, its a place and moment in time that you cant erase.

For years now I have thought about a special group of people or a club for those who have survived. I don't know why but I just have. Unless you have been there you wouldn't understand.

Now again, I am safe and for those of you who may be struggling, hang in there. You will learn that these thoughts come and go. I might end it there. Stay safe and you will get through this.

[Jaster]

Hi Indigo, many thanks for giving me clarification and suggestions on how to manage ongoing discussions and content. The last thing I am sure any of us want to do is to trigger or make someone uncomfortable.

Thank you for sharing more about your own situation and past. So pleased that you were able to make and continue to keep a promise for your nephew. That's a great strategy. 

My goodness, door slamming shut at 14. It is such an impressionable and confusing time in anyone's life. You are often so helpless. So sorry to hear that. Those are heavy words...not felt real joy. Your deserve them. We all do. Forever an optimist and I know they will reappear for you. Sometimes its right in front of us and we just need to pause and recognise it.

I can relate to those strong feelings. I have come to recognise that I am emotionally numb. I ran out of tears years ago. My own personal struggles and despair is so complex and has so many layers it basically crushed my soul.

When I was seeking therapy on a regular basis I have a recollection of them saying...'Think of your family if you weren't around'.

I just shrugged my shoulders. I had nothing there. They pressed the point a few times. Nope, I was in such a state I had no thoughts for the impact to loved ones around me. It's a selfish thing to say...I get it.

I love my wife and kids no question. If I am brutally honest, I don't FEEL IT. I do remember having those feelings they are gone!? Could be all the meds?? Don't know.

Your closing statement, what's the point of going through all the pain and heartache if you don't use it to help someone else.

Love it. Should be on a t-shirt! :).

Nice to have you in my life indigo22. 

x

[Jaster]

Hi ER,

I can't begin to tell you how helpful your sharing and suggestions based on your own experiences are. They are greatly and warmly received. 

So pleased that your inner voices, spirit, god or guardian angel (call them what you want and what makes you happy), was there to protect you in a time of need. No doubt it was harrowing. There is nothing pleasant at all about these feeling and experiences. Don't know how you made it to your teaching centre at the Buddhist Centre and put on a brave face. It is a little bonkers that it happened on the way to a Buddhist Centre. That is a little funny :).

These feelings and emotions are so critical I am hearing to both recognise and manage as best as possible. Sadly like I said in a response to Indigo22's comments above, I have suppressed so much hurt, disappointment and feelings about so many things in my life, I struggle in this area.

Not sure about you but I noticed a literal chemical change to the way I felt one day and it only got worse and worse. I used to travel the country as a corporate trainer. I was very comfortable speaking to large audiences and was highly in demand. Long story short I had a panic attack one morning and have never been the same since.

These attacks got worse and worse, turned into high anxiety and it has had a huge impact on my career. I literally had to close the door on something I loved. Its heart-breaking..well I guess it would be if I knew what that felt like :).

So sorry to hear about your grandmother and the impact it had on your own mother.

This generational discussion is definitely fascinating to me. My mothers mum whom I never met, was in a mental institution in the UK. My own mother had her own major issues with alcohol and depression. I can only ever remember her being unwell. 

My father who was rarely around and had little to no impact on my life, is a mystery to me. I do wonder. He was a loner and had his own strange quirks.It is such a shame that so many families struggle to break the cycle. It sounds to me that you have made a conscious decision to NOT let the past dictate your own future. 

We either buy into it or we don't I guess. You either fight like hell to not let it rule your life or you don't.

Sadly sometimes things beyond your own control within society can have detrimental affects. My daughter was bullied relentlessly at school to the point that we had to take out restraining orders against young girls and move her at least 4 times. The schooling system we experienced was not safe and I honestly wish we pulled her out sooner.

It was like a switch and her whole demeanour changed. I watched her become my mother and it scared the living daylights out of me. I had stopped seeing my mother because she lived in the past. She triggered me every time I saw her. Now she was back.

We are still picking up the pieces and the sad fact is that she is such a beautiful kid who would never hurt a soul. I do understand that these own kids (bullies) are most likely living in their own kind of hell at home and are just acting out. Either way, there we are. Very sad. She will be ok. She turned 22 today and has here whole life ahead of her.

Your somatic work sounds interesting. I like the empowering part. I am sure this came up in another discussion the other day. I have consciously suppressed so many feelings and no doubt am not alone with this. I honestly feel like I need to step things up as everything I have done in the past has never fully healed or helped.

I have just re-read your post about your friend who said there was nothing to fix, nothing was broken. I immediately wanted to dismiss it, but upon reflection am recognising how profound it is. We are a product of our circumstances. 

I have struggled for so long to not become a victim and have what they call a 'Victim Mentality'. You want to deny it. That's not me. Maybe that's the point?

The fact that we buy into our own diagnoses, engage with  MH professionals, take medication and lets face it come to place like this wonderful forum would suggest that we in fact DO have something wrong with us. 

I don't know. Very deep for a Monday...I might keep moving.THANK YOU for two things that I will be consciously exploring a little further this week.

1. Somatic Work and 2. Changing my own thought patterns and stop labelling myself as someone who is broken. You have a wonderful spirit @Eagle Ray who I am glad to have come into my life. Thank you for your own wisdom and listening.

Have a wonderful week x.

[indigo22]

Hi Jaster,

I was just reading your response to ER and I needed to respond to something that jumped off the screen when I read it. It was something that you missed in your experience with your daughter.

You said you had stopped seeing your mother because she triggered you (meaning you had not dealt with your inner wounds connected to your mother). Your daughter's change which was reflecting your mother was your wake up call to heal those wounds. I suspect that the panic attack, that started your spiral, was your first wake up call. These things have a way of resurfacing over and over until we get the message.

Just a little extra to think about 🤔

indigo 🌻

[Eagle Ray]

Hello Jaster and wave to indigo,

I agree it is a little bonkers that I had that episode on the way to the Buddhist centre and actually a little funny. Even at the time I could see the irony of it, as I sat down with these people for a meeting. Internally I'm saying to myself, "Far out I almost k#^%ed myself" and externally I'm interacting with these kind, friendly people in a Buddhist centre around the topic of supporting children with a compassionate education. I think it is sometimes these absurdities that bring us back to grounded reality or connection or whatever it might be called.

I do think there are actual chemical changes in the brain that can happen that shift us into different states. In the last two and a half years it has been hormonal changes that have triggered strong episodes of s/i. I can honestly say it's profoundly involuntary in how it manifests. The first of these episodes I went for a walk that started out normally. 20 minutes later I felt strange. I sat down by the river and I felt the darkest, blackest cloud coming up over behind me and just engulfing me. Pretty much immediately the intrusive thoughts and images were there. That first episode was 6 weeks before subsiding somewhat, so for me it's a variable experience over time.

My sense is we are such a complex and nuanced mix of biochemical, hormonal, emotional and spiritual components that when things get out of alignment in a certain way the whole system can go haywire. Our bodies are always trying to communicate with us about how to rebalance. So I think indigo may well be on the right track about your panic attacks. They will be a communication of sorts and the way your nervous system is trying to resolve inner conflicts. If things remain unprocessed at a conscious level, the body will still try to resolve them and often all the more dramatically if there has been repression of emotional experiences. The somatic approach I have done is called Somatic Experiencing developed by Peter Levine. Some of his books include Waking the Tiger, In An Unspoken Voice and Trauma & Memory, which may be helpful in beginning to understand how our nervous system naturally wants to, and can, resolve trauma and heal emotional issues. It's a gently titrated approach designed not to overwhelm the nervous system but to work gently with it to regain homeostasis. If you do actually try this approach in a therapy setting it's very important to find the right practitioner. I had to try a few before I found the right one.

There is a YouTube channel I can recommend on the topic of transforming from feeling there is something wrong with us due to past trauma to realising we are completely ok as we are and nothing has ever been wrong. I understand the idea that if we are coming here to this forum it can seem like we DO indeed have something wrong. But what I would say is that we are just still in the process of unlearning the idea that something is wrong with us. The YouTube channel is called Call Me Sam. He is a beautiful soul who has endured harrowing trauma. He's in his mid 50s now but as a younger adult transitioned to being a woman as a total rejection of himself based on his childhood trauma. He came to realise in his case it was the self-disgust he held towards himself that drove him to do that, but he is coming back to himself as a man now and shares the most incredible insights on the topic of complex trauma. Like so many of us with a trauma background, he has spent his life unsure if he's even allowed to exist in the world. He was working so hard on trying to fix himself when he realised that was just another manifestation of his trauma - the idea there's something wrong with him that needs fixing. It's impossible to summarise all his beautiful and powerful insights here, but if you look at his videos over the past 6 months or so in particular, they are so spot on and have been invaluable to me. It's challenging at times yet what he's saying is real and directly from his own experience as someone in the process of transforming the traumatised patterns of his life. The best videos of his to watch on this topic are the ones of him talking directly to camera in the Scottish highlands where he lives. There's some longer videos that are chats with others on other topics, but it's these direct ones of him sharing his thoughts where he just communicates the most helpful insights. It's not an easy journey and you can see the struggle it is for him at times, but he is allowing himself to feel all that was repressed in him and he's coming home to himself. To quote Sam from his most recent video which is a really good message for you, your daughter and all of us vulnerable people:

You matter more than you imagine.

Hugs,

ER

[Jaster]

Hi Indigo22,

YES you are very astute and thank you for recognising an issue that has had more weight on me and my life than anyone would ever know.

My mother grew up on the streets of the UK with her 2 other siblings. They had their own fractured family and I believe my grandmother ended up in a mental institution after my grandfather left her for another woman.

My own father also left when I was about 6 and this sent her into a massive tailspin. She already naturally had some challenges, this took it to another level. My mother used to drink and talk to me thinking I WAS my father. I had to often tell her that I was her son and NOT my father. This was for a very long period.

She remarried to a lovely man who had just lost his own life to Leukaemia. He had 2 daughters and one son and we became a blended family. Imaging two people coming together who both had, had their hearts broken. Both were on medication. Mum was an alcoholic. One daughter was on heroin and the other was a prostitute. It became what I call a 'freak show'.

Now I only tell you this (not only to entertain, it was quite the experience), but to let you know how I handled it and with reference to my mother daughter experience.

It was mum and I against the world. She had no-one. I was her protector. I have an older half brother but he ran. He still to this day doesn't know how bad it was and often resents me for running away and my own struggles to this day. The freak show lasted for 16 years. I had a period of anorexia which added another layer of excitement. 

So in closing, BOY I have an extraordinary amount of suppressed feelings towards my mother. We went to hell and back together and if I was older or stronger I would have removed her from the toxic relationship.

Seriously as I type this I feel absolutely nothing. I feel no emotions at all. 

As scary as it sounds I do know I need to take some brave pills and revisit some of this. I just don't want a talk fest for no-reason. If we go there we better have a bloody good plan and some safety rails. Thanks again for recognising who I am.

Hope you are well and don't mind me sharing. I am new to these forums and I guess we all have our own backstory's that by sharing could help others relate with the objective of moving on and living a beautiful life.

Enjoy your day 🌻

Jaster x

[indigo22]

Hi Jaster,

Thank you for sharing, I have a deeper understanding now.

Your coping mechanism was to become dissociated in order to not be hurt ever again. The only problem with that coping mechanism is that you also dissociate from love and happiness. Your heart was closed, for good reason at the time, but maybe now it can be opened again.

I came very close to doing the same thing 14 years ago, what saved me was my cat. She was so unconditionally loving and has such a beautiful soul, I could not close my heart off to her, so it stayed open. I lost her at the age of 16 only a few months ago, but my heart is still open thank to her. Without her, I may not be on these forums. I have much to be grateful to her for.

I think it is only fair that you know a little more about me so this link is to my first post on the forums.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/welcome-and-orientation/new-to-the-forums/td-p/566648

We can talk about whatever you wish from your past, you can also ask me questions about mine, it is why the forum is here. It allows us to work through our traumas with people who understand how and why a person can become so traumatised by their past. Eagle Ray and I have been communicating here regularly over the past 18 months or more and I feel we both benefit from the connection we have. Our past experience does not have to be the same, or even similar, to be able to offer compassion to each other and sometimes just talking about things can awaken deeply hidden wisdom in ourselves and others.

Living a beautiful life is definitely something to aspire to.

Enjoy your day too,

indigo 💜 

[Jaster]

Hi ER,

Sorry I haven't responded earlier. I consciously wait until I have some quality time to respond in a thoughtful and appreciative manner. 

I have just started watching 'Sam's' videos. Yes what a beautiful spirit he is and wow, imagine living in such a beautiful spot. Great to reflect and have these discussions.

It amazes me how many people who come from dysfunctional homes (whatever that means and isn't that literally all of us...100%!?), often have emotional and complex struggles as a result.

What often has me thinking is how much of it IS our body's reaction emotionally to the traumatic experiences we had OR regardless, even if we came from the most loving and stable families, had a life that sure had challenges, none that would give us major trauma or PTSD, it is all a part of our DNA. I love hearing your own opinions on this. 

Its like your experience walking by the river. I envisage a beautiful tranquil setting. That feeling you described is so common for many people I am learning. Did you unconsciously start thinking about something in the past that triggered a serious of thoughts? When you think about your senses sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch, any one of them can unconsciously trigger thought patterns.

I had an experience this week that just came to me. My son was heading out to work. He walked by me and his cologne and deodorant gave of a scent that immediately hit me. YES it was my mother and also a blend of cheap wine. Occasionally I have a senior citizen walk by me wearing certain perfume and BOOM...I am back there. Scary stuff.

I downloaded a book...'The body keeps the score' by Bessel van der Kolk, a practitioner in Somatic theory. I feel I need to read it. Speak soon.

Hope you had a nice week and weekend.

You matter to me :).

Hugs back x

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Jaster,

Yes, Sam is such a beautiful soul and I've found him very helpful on my journey in recent months. He has helped me to see that all the tying myself up in knots trying to fix myself is like an ongoing trauma response from my early conditioning that there is something wrong with me. When I allow that to fall away it's like, wow, I am actually ok in this very minute right now. Nothing is wrong. It is a process he has been through as well and, yes, it's possible to keep falling back into holes of despair and struggle. But I think when you have touched that sense that you are a pure soul and are ok right now, even if you go through more struggle you know that there is this peaceful place of knowing that can be attained again. Gradually that peaceful knowing begins to infiltrate your system more and the trauma increasingly subsides. I am beginning to experience this myself with the noise quieting down and the peace settling - a peace that is both me absorbing the beauty of the world and feeling peace in my own heart.

I could relate to some of the things you wrote in an above post about your mum about ending up being her protector as well as her support/confidante. I had a very similar experience with my mother. From the age of 5 she began to confide in me as if I was her confidante, counsellor or parent. I fell into this role because it seemed like what was being required of me. I wasn't parented by her or really by my dad either. So I really relate to that feeling that you feel responsible for your parent when in fact they are meant to have been responsible for you. When it comes to the vulnerability of at times not wanting to be here anymore, I can almost see how my isolation in the world and the sense of there not being a single adult figure I could safely attach to, as my protector, may well have contributed to that drive to not be here at times. Babies and small children orient to the adults around them in order to feel safe and can be left with despondency and isolation if no one responds and they end up in a traumatic freeze. My mother did not bond with me from birth which was a traumatic birth for both her and me, so I was always struggling to exist in total isolation. I am now coming into the world and findings ways to connect and the right people to connect with. I think connection is so integral as it is the core of what emotionally regulates us and gives us meaning. Relationship is where we heal and transform. I wonder if the fact you have not been able to feel emotions is linked with a primal shutting down in self-protection that goes back to that lack of parenting from your mother, where you had to be there for her emotional state but you didn't have someone there validating and mirroring and connecting with your emotional world, which is what a healthy functioning parent would do?

In my experience walking by the river I do not recall a specific thought relating to the past or a particular trigger. However, I find those things often are a trigger for a spiral into depression or anxiety states. In that particular case it seemed to be a dramatic biochemical imbalance linked to hormones, specifically a sudden drop in oestrogen which was confirmed on a blood test not long after that. I've found what certain hormonal changes do is strip back all my psychic defences and I am left with the most raw, traumatic material - face to face with it with no way of filtering it. It can be both terrifying but also an opportunity to see things without filters, as it means I know exactly what I'm dealing with. So I'm learning to face and work through the dark stuff directly. But I'm also learning that I don't have to get immersed in it. Like Sam is communicating, yes it's good to see it and know it and I may have to go through the horror of feeling it for a time, but underneath it all I am ok - everything is ok.

I have "The Body Keeps the Score" and have weirdly read it in parts rather than cover to cover and should go back to it properly. It is one of the key books on how trauma can get trapped in our bodies. So it should be an interesting and hopefully helpful read.

May you have a lovely week Jaster. You matter to me too 🙂

ER

[Jaster]

Hi Indigo,

Before I forget, how is the book coming along? Would love to read it or parts at some stage if comfortable :).

Thanks for helping me get some insight into your own past. The cat relationship I can completely relate to. Their unconditional love is like no other. We recently just lost our own cat to cancer. She was something else. I used to take a bunch of kids 'Trick or Treating' and she would come along for the whole journey. I would take kids to the park to play...same thing. She would always want to be near the family and follow us whether we liked it or not :).

I as sorry to hear about your own cat passing. What was its name? Ours was called 'Tiger'. Sadly we lost a beautiful Husky dog called 'Odin' only 12 months earlier. Both were aggressive forms of cancer. Tiger passed within 24-hours of us knowing she was unwell and rushing her to the vet hospital (with no previous signs). It is still very raw.

As always, I have bottled up all the emotion. My wife rightly let the emotions out. She would even sneak away for a little cry. I always followed her and offered hugs. 

I have never experienced grief to the levels of our cat and dogs passing. All within roughly 12-18 months. 

I have some serious work to do on myself should I want to let love in again. I tell my wife and kids I love them EVERY DAY. Our whole family does it. Maybe its not as hard as I think.

Keep up the writing. Its a wonderful way to escape. x

[indigo22]

Hi Jaster,

I must admit, I have done nothing with the book for a while. It's on the back burner for the moment until I feel ready to keep going with it.

My cat was Guinevere and she found me when she was 4 months old. She made me work for our relationship, she wandered into the back garden, hungry, thirsty and covered in burrs and fleas. It took me 3 hours to win her trust, which I finally did at 3am. She slept on my lap that night while I slept in the chair and the rest is history. She was healthy and happy for the first 14 years, never needed to go to the vet in all those years except for one time when she was 12 and had a tooth that needed to be removed. She slowly started becoming unwell but the vet could not pinpoint what the cause was and I didn't have the finances to do the costly diagnostic tests. I tried both vet meds and naturopathy, but nothing worked for her. When the day came, it became clear it was most likely cancer. It broke my heart to say goodbye to her.

Animals are very special souls and I believe they come into our lives, not by accident, but by synchronicity. The fact that you experienced the grief of your two beloved pets and had compassion for your wife's grief, tells me you may not be as closed off as you might think.

I had bottled up and pushed down my emotions related to my family until my mother died. What followed was 2 years of absolute rage against everybody and everything. I had the courage of a warrior during that time, and no one was ever going to have that much control over me again. It had to be released and since then, I have not bottled things up, it is so easy to do but is so unhealthy.

Bessel's book is a really good one to read, your intuition is working well for you. I got a lot out of that book. Another author that is worth looking into is Gabor Mate. Between Eagle Ray and myself, you will never be at a loss for recommendations 😉

I have mentioned this thread to another member and hope they will join in the conversations.

Hope you are having a good week,

indigo 💜