Passive suicidal behaviour

[Supermum]

When you dont want your family to know the truth about how you feel  or you just want to ensure your family are provided for then passive suicide is what you move into . To increase the risk of harm so that it was an accident is the explanation given.
Are passive suicidal thoughts  worse than active suicidal thoughts? Because they are so well hidden and masked they are unseen and passed over . When life just is too much ? 

Thoughts ?

[white knight]

Hi supermum, welcome

I'm 68yo and have had suicidal thoughts most of my life with one attempt at 40yo. In my experience and others including professionals is that any thoughts being passive, regular, aggressive etc are all important, all to be taken seriously. If anything, based on my experience of abuse within my 11 year marriage to my first wife, I certainly pushed my negative thoughts aside only for them to accumulate when I should have sort assistance in the form of therapy.  In recent years I've obtained such help and low and behold all sorts of details have emerged like- I'm bipolar2 and under the autism spectrum plus anxiety and depression.

Once such revelations arise you then can make sense of things. I assume you are a mother and your issues have built up over time. Sometimes we have members here that just needed to vent, other times we get members that are guided by us to try different strategies to help them cope. I'm amazed how a few simple ideas are introduced that can be life changing.

So the answer to your question is- your thoughts, any of them that you feel unsafe with is an important topic to discuss. We are all anonymous so please when you feel like its time to discuss them please do.

"When we class our thought as abnormal, it because society treats them as taboo. Talking to those that have similar thoughts are those like us... and we are few..."

TonyWK

[therising]

Hi Supermum

I've found that whether the thoughts involve an active form or a passive form, either way they come about in the absolute depths of depression. Personally, such thoughts can tell me where I am in a depression and how serious it has become. On the brink, a little way in, half way down, 3/4s or in the absolute depths, it's not always easy to know where we are at times. Rock bottom, where you can't go any further, is what has generated active thoughts for me in the past (many years ago). Almost at rock bottom can occasionally generate passive thoughts.

If I had to think of a way to phrase passive thoughts, I'd say it's a matter of 'I just don't care enough to try and stay alive anymore. I just feel too depressed, too exhausted and too hopeless to try'. So, it can be about the level of depression, the level of exhaustion and the level of hopelessness. Not always easy to make complete sense of how we've managed to reach such levels.

Tony's words are inspiring, especially "When we class our thought as abnormal, it because society treats them as taboo. Talking to those that have similar thoughts are those like us... and we are few...". Finding people who can relate in some way and help us make sense of our thoughts and feelings is definitely key to raising our self and our level of consciousness or awareness. 'I can feel myself gradually being raised through certain revelations' can be a thought that offers some relief, some difference. When there's no one who's willing to openly speak about certain challenges that can naturally feel soul destroying, a sense of loneliness can feel overwhelming at times. We should never be left to work things out alone, especially in the depths of depression, the darkest place in need of the most light.❤️

[Supermum]

Thankyou for your insight and compassionate reply.  The active thoughts are still there some times they feel more powerful than others BUT my family are a big factor as the guilt of hurting them knowing what I did was deliberate is too much. I do not want to cause them not only the pain of losing a parent but also the reason why. Hence the passive thoughts …  then it’s out of my hands … leave it to fate if you like. I’m tired beyond belief tired of trying to educate myself, learn about different techniques to help me to stop feeling this way. It feels like the more I find out about why I deal with things the way I do and why I am who I am the less I like about myself and the harder it feels. It feels like I don’t even know who I am ? I feel like I’m just a byproduct of childhood abuse that I didn’t even realise until schema therapy dredged that up from a well hidden place with continuing invalidation and maladaptive strategies that I didn’t even realise were not “ normal” mixed with a shit show of a past 6 years that just sent my mental health into a rollercoaster ride. 

I see a psychologist every 2 weeks and it’s challenging and exhausting emotionally that I just feel heavy at the moment . 

[white knight]

Four things come to mind after your last post supermum

1/ Guilt. Suffering excess guilt can be mentally crippling. My source of guilt began with a parent that continually crushed my spirit, my confidence. Even at 50yo after I painted out her unit, she thanked me then told everyone I hadnt finished it properly. It was that she refused to buy the extra paint for me to do so. Guilt is a tormenting feeling. Excess guilt should be addressed and along with professional care as you are getting we need also to teach ourselves, talk to ourselves if you like, that we shouldnt feel guilty of anything when we are doing our best.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/guilt-the-tormentor/td-p/321604

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/anxiety/shame-and-guilt/td-p/19804 

2/ Tiredness. Exhaustion can come from different places of our lives. It is widely discounted as a source of mental fitness. However I've discovered myself that it is really important we get quality rest. A 2 man tent and a sleeping bag costs little and in this great land we can camp overnight with a campfire and .... rest!

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/inexpensive-recovery-idea-camping/td-p/66887

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/a-good-nights-deep-sleep-sleep-apnea-and-cpap/td-p/... 

3/ Acceptance.  As we travel along with our healing journey of mental health there comes a time when we should try to accept some things that have occurred in our lives, push them aside and move on. There is also some events that cannot be or should not be discounted. You can make that judgement. 

For myself as an example, I had to push aside my mother 13 years ago and get on with my life without her due to her controlling and destructive ways. To do that I had to force my mind over my heart, actively protect myself from her while removing her nurturing when I was a boy. It wasn't easy and to this day thinking about her at 93yo is a battle for me to not contact her. Logically I know she would remind me of what a bad person I have been and that would haunt me more. So these decisions aren't easy but when you accept that you do deserve happiness, freedom of shackles that have bound you to your memories and so on, its an easier choice. 

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/acceptance-is-this-our-biggest-challenge/td-p/14769...

4/ Self praise.  Imagine being criticised heavily, then looking into a mirror daily and out loud saying "I am a good person, I deserve love and support, I should be appreciated for the love and support I give other". After 3 months, believe me, it works, you slowly begin to believe in your own motivation.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/the-best-praise-you-ll-ever-get/td-p/134999

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/are-you-good-enough-low-self-esteem/td-p/560372

All those links above will help you a lot. You only need to read the first post of each that I wrote. Homework isnt so bad is it?... I hope that helps. Reply here and/or post in those links a reply if it hits home a lot.

TonyWK

[therising]

Hi Supermum

I think that while hindsight can be helpful it can also be mind altering and not always in good ways (initially anyway). Gaining perspective through hindsight can conjure up so many mixed emotions. Looking back over events and people who formed and reformed us, when it comes to our ways of thinking and feeling, I suppose the question can be 'Who the heck would I naturally be, without all those influences?'. Sometimes the honest answer is 'I have absolutely no idea who I am'.

'Waking up' or becoming conscious of certain things can be incredibly painful. Whoever opens that Pandora's box for us has to be able to help us manage what's in there, what we're about to become conscious of. For example, if we never felt guilt over something but are now fully conscious of that which holds elements of guilt, we may feel the full force of guilt like never before. How to make sense of guilt, how to mange it, how to completely redefine it in constructive ways, how to feel it or not feel it (turn the volume up or down on it), how to question all the belief systems that come with it and so many other factors can come into play. Same can be said for every other emotion: remorse, regret, betrayal, heartache/heartbreak, resentment, anger, deep seated rage and hatred etc etc.

While there are some elements or facets to me that I like about myself and a handful I even love, there are also facets I detest and seriously struggle with. Some bring me pain, stress and a sense of utter hopelessness, whereas others can bring me joy, lightheartedness, relief and more. There are some that have come to life over the years through my experiences with depression, some have been born out of desperation, some have emerged through certain revelations, some through the need to analyse, some through the need to wonder, adventure, question, challenge and more. Each part of myself goes toward making up the whole of who I am. I've learned I cannot say 'I hate myself' because there is just so much to me, so many different parts to me and more facets will emerge over time, with new challenges and experiences. While some folk can help us analyse the hell out of life, I think there's also a need to bring parts of us to life at the same time, parts that we're yet to meet with. When we discover there is a part of our self or there are parts of our self we actually love, it can come as a truly shocking surprise...'I had no idea I had that in me, as no one has ever brought it to light until now'.

[white knight]

Hi the rising

Love your post. Your dismantling of guilt is interesting. One of my links for the OP was "guilt the tormentor", I've only ever felt guilt as a restriction.

Then one day someone said "you're a punctual person because of your guilt". A positive!. Then I realised a serial late person has little guilt and often inconsideration. 

Just wanted to share that.

TonyWK 

[therising]

Hi Tony

I think that it's our struggle with guilt that sometimes forces us to better define it or redefine it. What came to mind for me one day was 'Guilt is asking you 'Who do you want to be from this moment onwards?''. Do I want to be the kind of person who continues to run late for appointments or do I want to not disappoint myself from showing up on time? Do I want to be the kind of person who continues to suffer and cause sufferance through my drinking or do I want to not experience shame and regret while leading others to feel pain? Do I want to be the kind of person who continues to suffer through always pleasing others or do I want to not experience always putting myself last? Guilt is a sign or a signpost, a 'fork in the road' emotion. It always asks me to consciously choose a path. Looking back over the 3 examples, pain or upset is not necessarily felt through guilt, it's felt through a sense of disappointment, a sense of a lack of responsibility, a sense of shame, a sense of regret, a sense of empathy and a sense of a lack of self love. When I choose the best path, I leave guilt behind. It has done it's job, it has been the sign or signpost I needed. It has made me more conscious and led me to choose who I'm going to be. I've come to thank it. This is a far cry from constantly suffering through it.

[Supermum]

Today I feel like an imposter like I’m in purgatory. Trapped in a battle I don’t want to be part of.  I could win an Oscar or a Bafta for the part I play in my own life. Who am I ? Where do I belong ? Hopelessness and shame .
 

[therising]

Hi Supermum

I think 'Who am I?' would have to be one the most liberating questions yet one of the most torturous at the same time. It's the question many ask when facing 'the in-between' or 'purgatory' (the place of no solid sense of identity or direction). It's the question often asked when considering who we were and who we're going to be. What can make that question so torturous involves having absolutely zero idea when it comes to who we're going to become. If we've managed to be a bit of a visionary in the past, when it comes to seeing ways forward, in purgatory it's as though we've gone blind. There are no visions of the way forward. This is my own experience when it comes to that sense of purgatory. It is not heaven or hell but it can certainly appear like hell at times, feeling so unbelievably lost.

I can recall speaking to a brilliant man who I occasionally see about once every few years, when depression can become too much for me to manage alone. He offered me a relatable perspective when it comes to that in-between feeling. He mentioned something along the lines of 'While you feel yourself standing on a cliff's edge, this edge is the verge. It is the verge of much needed change. When you turn around, you will see everything you've left behind (all the things you've been through). As you turn back around and look out in front of you, you'll find an enormous expanse of unexplored territory that stretches out as far as the eye can see. This is where you're heading, into unexplored territory, a place where you will discover who you are. Take it in for a while but remember, at some point you'll have to take a leap of faith because you can't continue just standing there'. A cliff's edge and the verge can be the same thing. There is a fear that comes with standing there, facing unexplored territory, alone. The challenge can be to not stand there alone, to find someone who will stand there with us and give us the courage needed to take a leap of faith.

I find that while I can lose my sense of self at times, lose my sense of direction, lose my vision, lose my courage and even lose faith in myself, I still remain a traveler the whole time. This, I know for a fact, is who I am. While I may come to the end of certain territories or stages of life, face new territories, face cliff's edges, cover rocky ground, incredibly dark parts of my path (where I can't see a damn thing) etc etc, I remain a traveler through this life, through the whole experience. And if there are 2 things a traveler needs most at times it's a sense of direction and a really good guide or set of guides who can help shed some light occasionally. I've found that verges force me to sift out who are the best guides vs who are the people who make no difference whatsoever.

If you were to say to your psychologist 'I'm not sure where I'm meant to be heading, as I have zero sense of direction at the moment', it would be interesting to hear what they have to say.