Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[Elizabeth CP]

I hope that discussions like these enable us to lift the lid on the discrimination & false information that is in society so everyone can feel they are treated fairly. I avoided the word equality because it can be misconstrued as sameness which doesn't work. We are all different & have different needs & different strengths & weaknesses but everyone deserves to be treated fairly.

I remember participating in an inservice re domestic abuse & how to deal with clients we suspect are victims of it. A very important topic. A male staff member asked what should we do to assist mele victims. He was quickly shut down as the speaker explained emphatically 'NO men ever experience domestic abuse!!!!' This seems to be a common misconception in society which needs to be exposed. I imagine the effect of domestic abuse on men would be different to the effect on women so the support required would be different but is still important.

I'm probably not explaining myself well but I'm wanting to give a vote of support to all men who are being treated unfairly because nobody deserves to be treated badly regardless of their gender, race, religion etc

[sparhawk29]

no, you were pretty much right on with that post Elizabeth. even now the common misconception is men can't be victims of domestic abuse. you're right regarding the word equality as well, as i think the goals when trying to get systems more fairly set up, the goal gets lost in the political movement that follows.

once upon a time, men couldn't be raped. we know that isn't true now. but when we're talking about domestic abuse, most people automatically think about physical fights and the like. while in most cases it's what it is, it's not the only way. no one should be suffering any form of abuse, but even the ad campaigns is against men inflicting violence on women. to change the thoughts, we have to educate everyone that what we once were taught to believe, isn't the way it is. and that part isn't so easy.

at least discussions like this brings us one step closer to fixing a broken system, and like all broken systems, it will take time and alot of hard work. at least we can give ourselves a chance by talking to others who are willing to understand and that in turn is also a step to healing ourselves as well. we aren't left in the dark anymore i think.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Tony Wk and a wave to all,

Just a quick one from me...

Blubelle: I have been quietly reading and admiring your posts on this thread. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your intelligence, insight, sensitivity and thoughtfulness. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your thoughts with us 🙂

I just wanted to express that...now that I’ve done that, as you were...

Kind and caring thoughts,

Pepper

[blondguy]

Hi Everyone!

Hey ElizabethCP....Thankyou for your TLC and understanding on TonyWK's thread topic where men feeling isolated are concerned

ElizabethCP mentioned "the effect of domestic abuse on men would be different to the effect on women so the support required would be different but is still important"

Hey Sparhawk29.....thankyou for taking the time to help the forums with your clarity...I am no expert here...just brought up a bit old fashioned and doing what I can to be as clear as you have been...

Sparhawk mentioned "if we want things truly equal, society needs to change their way of thinking as a whole, and be willing to understand it's more than just being weak. even men have feelings as well"

Hey Pepper!..How have you been 🙂 Thankyou for being a part of TonyWK's thread topic 'Men Isolated' Always a treat to see you on the forums x

My kind thoughts

Paul

[Guest_1584]

Ho to all.

And yeah great points Hawk and Eliz . There are so many things that can happen in relationships marriages for example and yeah it is true believe me , the women can be equally or even more horrifying, without going into gory details yet when l was going through mine , divorce,, there was pretty well nothing for men and it was basically just a bit of a scoff and huh , he'll be right , pretty well everywhere l looked. Often even family , or just automatically assumed it was all his fault.

l'm really really please though that even in just a short time, 5 yrs or so , there have been a lot more things spring up for men and the awareness out there has improved to no end even in a few years.

Eeven custody and seeing their jkids.

But also cross the board in other ways like mens health and mental health and areas you guys are talking about , all sorts of things. Womens views seem to be shifting a lot to even in just a few years and although there is still so much assuming out there it's still just mind boggling but at least it's a great start.

And thanks to everyone for this great thread too because it's another littlle step in a great direction. l always think of this stuff in a look at it this way, women have been speaking up and shouting from roof tops for years and years now and that's why so much has changed for them well , men have to speak up too, it's well over due.

Cheers to all.

rx

[blondguy]

Hey RX

It is mega difficult when (we) men feel isolated

Thankyou for the great post too....

RX mentioned "l'm really really pleased though that even in just a short time, 5 yrs or so , there have been a lot more things spring up for men and the awareness out there has improved to no end"

Ditto here RX

my kind thoughts

Paul

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Tony Wk and all,

Paul: thank you for the kind words and acknowledgement. I appreciate it 🙂 I hope you’re doing okay yourself, and if not, I hope you’re reaching out for support and being extra gentle to yourself.

Kind and caring thoughts,

Pepper xoxo

[HamSolo01]

Hey BlueBelle

Thank you for your reply. Very well written.

This statement stuck out to me: "If the patriarchy is men, and the patriarchy is bad - then it might feel like a logical conclusion that men are bad." I agree. I'll be upfront and say that I've seen people make this logical conclusion. That's what prevents A LOT of men from speaking out I think. The fear that they will be characterised in a certain light, this is what feels like a kick in the guts. This is what prevents them speaking out. Speak out and you get ridiculed. I think this probably happens in the circles in which I'm familiar with (university classes, lectures and certain political groups) and not so much the greater public sphere. I hope that makes sense. Given that these people will be running the country in say ten years time, I'm not comfortable with it. Being met with "oh poor white man doesn't feel safe or happy" or "man has feelings hurt boohoo" is disgusting. Imagine if we said this about women?

This is also well said: "It makes it harder for men to be vulnerable, to discuss emotions, to be primary caretakers of children, to seek recourse as victims of violence or bullying, to dress or act or choose a career that is traditionally feminine. If you don't fit in, it can be incredibly isolating." I think this is definitely an issue too. Exposing yourself to vulnerability is hard, the fear of being ridiculed, mocked or bullied is strong. I see radical feminists taking advantage of men who do this. It sickens me. The disdain for masculinity (which by the way has nothing to do with violence against women) simply makes the issue worse. Violence against women has nothing to do with masculinity, I'm sorry if that sparks a debate but it has to be said. Violence is motivated by sick, weak individuals. When that behaviour is normalised as "masculine" then yes it clearly has something to do with it. But it's not masculinity. Perhaps I'm more aware of this given that I'm male.

Whenever we talk about the patriarchy we are talking about the historical imbalance between men and women. Sadly, I think a lot of places on Earth still struggle with this (Iran and Saudi Arabia for example). For all the progress that Australia has made in the area of gender equality, I think there are still issues at play. Particularly when we look at the domestic violence situation and workplace imbalances.

I know I've said I won't say more, but I feel I have to so I'll say more in another post. Bare with me.

[HamSolo01]

I must confess BluBelle that I laughed a little bit when you said this, "but it's like this constant struggle to dominate a conversation, and voices get squashed as a consequence" because I couldn't agree with you more.

Too often these sorts of discussions become platforms for political messages and campaigns. One is met with a sense of disdain for anything at that point - even points they'd agree with.

I'm not shying away from my criticism of radical feminism. After having spent time at university and understanding some of the disgusting attitudes radical feminists have towards men, I am worried. Alas, I'm more worried about my finances, my life, my friends and my family because they are more important to me than the opinions of people. However, when one begins to realise that A LOT of the current conversations we have around mental health and masculinity seem to turn into discussions about how men should be more vulnerable I think we miss the point. Men don't want to be vulnerable. Simple. It's VERY hard. Possibly the hardest thing to do. My response to that is simple, why should men become "more vulnerable" ? Why should men have to change their behaviour for other people? Particularly around the issue of mental health? I find myself agreeing with the idea but disagreeing with its execution. It seems that a lot of the time it's women who are calling for men to become more vulnerable. That's the same thing as saying "women need to man up" which is simply wrong. They don't. Women can be women and men can be men. Let individuals (be they men or women) figure these things out. Men ought to talk with other men about mental health. Yet, that gets criticised as "too patriarchal".

I honestly think the reason why so many men feel isolated is because they are told not to share their emotions with people. Well I say bugger that. Start to talk about it with your male friends. You'll probably find that other men are in the same position as you are. But let's not have women tell men how they should express themselves? In the same way we shouldn't have men tell women how to express themselves?

[HamSolo01]

I think this is a good time to chuck in a quote from Mary Wollstonecraft:

"I do not wish them [women] to have power over men; but over themselves."

Very insightful and true for all of us I should think.