Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[geoff]

Hi Tony, my sincere condolences to your brother, sometimes we do know about their condition but on many an occasion they do hide it, but back then, how are we to know, we hadn't been educated about depression and it was only when my wife had PND I knew about it, because for years it 'was just being sad' or 'being cross' so there was no correlation between the two.

I knew so many times that I was 'just sad' growing up in life, the word depression was never mentioned, people said 'why are you still feeling sad', mental illness was never discussed, it was taboo.

I know that my wardrobe and all the memorabilia was cleaned out by my Mum (who I loved) when we were on our honeymoon, items that were so important to me, letters, items I had been collecting for years, all my clothes, stamps, puppets on a string, everything, why, because she just wanted some extra space for her clothes.

The trouble these days is that I find it difficult to get size 4XL which means I have to travel, so the clothes in my wardrobe are gathering dust.

When I was married my wife would go through my wardrobe and regularly throw out any clothes that were too small or I didn't use, which means we had to go shopping, and when I said 'let's go through the hardware store and look at any new power tools' the answer was NO.

Geoff.

[Birdy77]

Hello Tony and all,

Tony I am so sorry about your brother.

It sucks that your mates have not responded to your message on Facebook. But I wondered something, I've been thinking about this lately for myself as well.

I don't do Facebook or social media, but I have told a few friends that I haven't been well lately. They do kinda check in with me, but not much. Now, this hurts to tell you, but i told my parents at Christmas time that i have been unwell (depressed). Since then, they have asked me how I am a grand total of: zero times.

Now, I don't think it's that they don't care, and they've had a lot going on in their lives the last few months including cancer and my brother dying ... but the other night when I was in rather a state, I said to my partner "mum and dad don't even care about me" to which she responded "honey I don't think it's that they don't care, I think they know what a great relationship we have, and that you have me, that they don't worry about it too much?" She said that if I didn't have her, and lived on my own, that they would check in on me and my friends would too. That everyone feels really I'm ok (and i am, actually) because i have my beautiful partner and so they can relax and not be on high alert about me.

I don't know ...

But I just wondered if because your friends know you have Mr Whiteknight, and your relationship is awesome, that even the fact you alerting them to your not being well doesn't register too much for them? That if you lived on your own, they'd be more attentive? I would like to think that was the case for me ...

Just a thought. Not saying it makes it ok, but just wondered if it could contribute to their tardiness in checking in on you.

🌻birdy

[Birdy77]

Correction *Mrs Whiteknight

[Ddom]

HI Tony ,

My condolences on your brother. i to have lost too many close friends since i was a teen from mental illness and some just bad luck.but they are heavy memories some times.

I hope or wish we would be able to help our people more. Even toady it is inadequate when you see the statistics.

in regards to differences in support of men for men and ladies for ladies i see it in that

imo most men tend be so self adsorbed and borderline narcissists they lack empathy and understanding unless it effects them and then lack of emotional maturity to offer a hug. you are sensitive and pick up on things most people try not to even think about never alone try to comprehend. it is fear. most are trying to keep it together. the mask of its alright mate.

Even the perception in general that a man crying is being weak.The difference of that perception today in 2018 compared to 1950's is big. men are slowly getting there.emotional maturity i think it is called ?

I grew up with five sisters and noticed that most ladies are quicker to offer empathy, support and admit they have moments of weakness and cry at times.with out feeling less of a woman. doubts and lots of other thing for sure 😉 but not of being part of a whole gender or being less than.

peace out

DD

[Quiettall]

I am finding these posts fascinating. What I am interested in is the fact that men are just expected to cope - when you say you are feeling down or in my case, just withdraw to deal with issues or concerns I have, many of the family look surprised that I would even admit to such a state. It is so natural in Australia to expect men just to hold the stiff upper lip. Maybe that is why there are many more men in mental crises or facing suicidal tendencies than women?

It's time we really promote the need for people to share, to talk, to seek out just one person to share with openly and honestly, without judgement, and without the "you should do this or that..." style response.

I find it easy to share online but there are not too many people (if any) that I can trust to share with, or really that have any interest in where I am at or what I am dealing with. So I busy myself reaching out to others personally and professionally (voluntary work) which helps me in my personal work in dealing with the issues I am grappling with

[white knight]

Hi Ddom,

I suppose narcissism is more prone to be in men if we examine the leaders of countries over centuries. The warring men!. I don't know of a warring woman? Thatcher in the Falklands war was invaded by the Argentinians.

You can google this "waif, hermit, queen, witch"

That will show you the narcissistic side to some females. So it isn't necessarily in the big picture of country leaders but in the small environment of the family home. Such a woman is my mother-- she was successful in ruining the mental health of us three kids. She had all 4 traits or characters of the above.

I've also read articles about "children of borderline mothers" and it is highly likely her child will end up with mental illness not unlike my own.

That gives me some satisfaction to know where us kids issues originated from.

Quietall: Re: "It is so natural in Australia to expect men just to hold the stiff upper lip. Maybe that is why there are many more men in mental crises or facing suicidal tendencies than women?"

Likely one reason of several I think. The "hold in your tears " syndrome.

Tony WK

[white knight]

THE DOMINEERING MOTHER

I'd suggest in my unqualified position here that dominant fathers and their effect on his child could be far different than domineering mothers and the effect of such dominance on their child.

My mother was a stay at home mum. Dad worked so many hours we only saw him on Wednesday nights for 15 minutes and on Sundays. Such was the life of a family that had to financially endure the cost of insulin for my diabetic brother them days. No PBS then.
Even when dad was with us he was, sadly, manipulated by our mother. She steered the ship, he stoked the boilers. The control our mother had on us became more demanding as we grew, in adulthood the control accelerated as she slowly lost control due to us demanding more independence. The common denominator of us 3 kids having mental illness issues was our mother, unless there was some inherited, down the generations cause. Well maybe? See, my mothers mother and my mothers 3 aunties all had the same methods of control. Of the 4 female siblings (my nana and her 3 sisters) 2 had children that suicided and my nana of course had a grandson that did, my brother. blaming is going over the top but without diagnosis one has little choice but to guess a connection
The traits were- manipulation of the highest order (turning people against each other, divide and conquer), control by demand that meant yelling daily/insistence and possession of her children even as adults. Being in possession appeared from us childrens perspective that she was forever jealous of our choice of partner. They were never good enough and us adult children weren't either. The matriarch!

The book "walking on eggshells" by Dr Christine Lawson covers this.

There is a consequence of the domineering parent- guilt. Guilt is a terrible thing to possess, it robs your soul of calmness and the serenity that every human should be able to hold as a right.

Every other tactic or mistreatment can be masked. The excessive beltings, the manipulations, are never noticed by others and guilt is also never noticed by anyone. When one feels excessive guilt you complain/fight against mother and you are howled down "how dare you think such a thing" and "you have no right to feel that way"

In fact the truth is the opposite. Feeling anything is a right of every human. But feeling anti ones mother is not allowed

Such an upbringing has implanted scars that has had a lifetime of effect. Interesting that my sister is also effected, even worse.

Tony WK

[white knight]

MEN AND DOCTORS

I'd like to invite readers to give their theory as to why men refuse to visit a GP.

Tony WK

[Quercus]

Hi Tony,

I'll bite 😊

My husband has to be cajoled, nagged and generally harrassed to see a GP.

He's getting better slowly because he's realising (after constant stubborn and unrelenting comments from me)... That we love and need HIM.

Not for the providing.

Not for the bread winning.

Not the ability to fix stuff.

Not for anything related to his role as father, husband, son or man....

But because if he keeps ignoring his health one day we may lose him.

And the kids and I will be lost and devastated. Because we adore him for himself. All the quirks that make up him as a person that we love having in our lives and love spending time with. And would feel a giant hole where he once was.

It took a hospital stay. A 20% chance of dying. My hysterical tears. He held his son and felt our daughter kick within my belly. And realised he had people to live for.

Sometimes he forgets and goes back to stiff upper lip behaviour. I've learned to stick in my heels and be more stubborn. I've learned to just book the appointment and pretend I thought he hadn't had time to make one for himself. He doesn't get angry... I think it reminds him that I love him enough to demand he cares for himself.

[geoff]

Hi Tony, good question, well there are enormous reasons why,

-told to stop smoking and/or drinking

-personal questions about marriage, r/ship, work and what they do in their spare time

-being told they should look after their health better, eat more fruit/vegetables

-don't like blood tests

-afraid of body examinations

-fear of medical results or being told to see a specialist

-constantly told to see their doctor, this increases their anxiety

-doctor telling spouse that they want to see your husband

-afraid to tell the truth or scared to

-don't think a symptom is serious, they can overcome it themselves

-pretend they can't get time off work

-if they believe they are being bullied, scared to tell the doctor

-afraid to be told they have prostate even though they are struggling to go to the toilet

-the list is extensive and it will keep growing.

Geoff.